Season Preview: Coming Back to Earth?

[Lafleurs Guy]

Overall, Price left one bad critical goal in game 1. Who knows what would have happened if he stopped that one. But in the end, Price weren't bad at all during these series.

Why let the truth get in the way of a good witchunt. But of course he sucked against the Bruins two years ago right?

We might also have kept a distorted souvenir of Price's performances because Andersson was so great. But clearly, no one can blame Price for last series.

Anderson was great, no doubt about that. But he saw every shot. As usual we did a lousy job of putting guys in front of him and it killed us. The posters who don't understand this are the same ones happy that we went out and got Briere.

 

[Devourers]

I don't know how someone can say that the flyers don't have depth up front. Their team is great and Couturier, Schenn and a few others may even take another step in development.

As for us, I think a lot of people underrate our forward depth here. The one thing I can agree with is that for us to go far in the season or playoffs, Price has to be a rock. We aren't ready to contend for the cup just yet, but saying a transitioning team (new management, youth movement) isn't built for the playoffs is just silly.

We aren't a cup contender yet, it doesn't mean we can't be in a few years.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I don't know how someone can say that the flyers don't have depth up front. Their team is great and Couturier, Schenn and a few others may even take another step in development.

As for us, I think a lot of people underrate our forward depth here. The one thing I can agree with is that for us to go far in the season or playoffs, Price has to be a rock. We aren't ready to contend for the cup just yet, but saying a transitioning team (new management, youth movement) isn't built for the playoffs is just silly.

We aren't a cup contender yet, it doesn't mean we can't be in a few years.

We can be a contender in a few years. We have the core talent to do it. We just need a little more size up front and to have some support on the back end. We're not that far away.

But I don't see how you can say that it's silly to say that our team isn't built for the playoffs. If things go right we could advance sure... but we could've done a hell of a lot more to help ourselves than we did.

 

[X66]

Look, none of us like giving the Leafs credit, but the bolded comment is just delusional.

Exactly. Neither the Leafs nor the Habs should have trouble scoring goals this year.

 

[rafal majka]

Our team just isn't built for the playoffs. We've basically got to hope that Price carries us because if he doesn't I think we're going to have a tough time advancing in the playoffs. Our D is at best questionable and up front we're way too small.

We've got to hope that Galchenyuk and Eller can take the next step. I don't think we can ask for anything more out of Gallagher or Subban. We've got to pray that Murray and Tinordi can finally give us some protection...

Still don't think it's enough though. We don't play well in front of the opposing net nor our own. And battles in the playoffs are won and lost there. We're built for the regular season not the playoffs.

The Leafs go to the net... we don't. And we don't protect our net either... that's why we get crushed in the playoffs. Also, the Leafs didn't go any further than we did. They just lost in more spectacular fashion. As for Price, he went down with injury and for all we know was on his way to tying up the series so I'm not sure wtf you're talking about.

As for us not going to the net... Briere just makes this worse.

This is just false. By this reasoning, Washington, Winnipeg, San Jose, Tampa Bay, etc would be perennial contenders. They're not because Fenwick close, goal diff. and save% have more bearing on playoff success than roster size.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This is just false. By this reasoning, Washington, Winnipeg, San Jose, Tampa Bay, etc would be perennial contenders. They're not because Fenwick close, goal diff. and save% have more bearing on playoff success than roster size.

You can't be as small as we are and expect to win. And you can't ignore the front of the nets at both ends of the ice. It's that simple. Nothing false about it.

Nobody is saying that the biggest team will win dude. But if you aren't in the traffic areas where you're supposed to be, you aren't going anywhere. You can point to those stats all you want, at the end of the day when the goalie can't see the puck, you've got a better chance at scoring. The more shots the better for sure... but you can't ignore this aspect of the game esp. in the playoffs where refs put their whistles away.

 

[Devourers]

We can be a contender in a few years. We have the core talent to do it. We just need a little more size up front and to have some support on the back end. We're not that far away.

But I don't see how you can say that it's silly to say that our team isn't built for the playoffs. If things go right we could advance sure... but we could've done a hell of a lot more to help ourselves than we did.

I mean in general when referring to a team that's rebuilding/in a development stage, it's silly to call them not built for the playoffs. The complaint itself is just weak, of course they aren't built for the playoffs, they aren't supposed to be.

Bergevin is building the team from within, he isn't going to make any crazy trades until this team is 1 piece away from that next level.

We have a great young core in Pacioretty, Eller, Galchenyuk, Gallagher, all up front, and who knows what will happen a few of our prospects are probably going to succeed too. Our defense is now in the phase our offense was a couple years back, we aren't a contender now but we aren't supposed to be.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I mean in general when referring to a team that's rebuilding/in a development stage, it's silly to call them not built for the playoffs. The complaint itself is just weak, of course they aren't built for the playoffs, they aren't supposed to be.

Maybe not contenders but again... we could've done better in the offseason than we did. We could've helped ourselves on the D and not gotten smaller upfront.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

This is just false. By this reasoning, Washington, Winnipeg, San Jose, Tampa Bay, etc would be perennial contenders. They're not because Fenwick close, goal diff. and save% have more bearing on playoff success than roster size.

No one is saying get a big body for the sake of that player having a big body. (OK yes some fans may say that, but ignore them) Having players like LG is referring to is to help in goal differential, but screening the goalie, the habs could score more goals. Also SV % and again goal differential would be helped by having players that are not tired by the end of the game and can clear the front of the net.

I don't believe having a roster of 6 foot 6, 240 players all over the roster, but have the right ones, in the right spots. You can't say the habs don't lack those type of players in the right situation, can you??

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No one is saying get a big body for the sake of that player having a big body. (OK yes some fans may say that, but ignore them) Having players like LG is referring to is to help in goal differential, but screening the goalie, the habs could score more goals. Also SV % and again goal differential would be helped by having players that are not tired by the end of the game and can clear the front of the net.

I don't believe having a roster of 6 foot 6, 240 players all over the roster, but have the right ones, in the right spots. You can't say the habs don't lack those type of players in the right situation, can you??

You've articulated this better than I did. Thank you.

 

[ECWHSWI]

What's so funny? Just cause Flyers didn't make the playoffs doesn't mean they have a bad lineup. In fact their forward lineup I would say is superior to Habs with more toughness. Their problem has always been the goaltending but they still managed to make to finals. I wouldn't underestimate them too much because of where they finished last year. Their lineup certainly didn't reflect the position they finished in, much like Habs 2 years ago.

let's start with goaltending...

and continue with their D corp...

 

[Darth Joker]

Well.. let's compare the top 9.

Pacioretty-DD-Briere
Bourque-Plekanec-Gionta
Galchenyuk-Eller-Gallagher

vs.

Scott Hartnell-Claude Giroux-Jakub Voracek
Brayden Schenn-Vincent Lecavalier-Wayne Simmonds
??-Sean Couturier-Matt Read

vs.


James van Riemsdyk-Tyler Bozak-Phil Kessel
Joffrey Lupul-Nazem Kadri-David Clarkson
Mason Raymond-Dave Bolland-Nikolai Kulemin


So you think our top 9 is that much superior compared to the Flyers and Leafs?

No. I think the three teams are close to a wash up front. Maybe a slight edge to Philly and Toronto since they have the better "top forward" (Giroux, Kessel), but by the same token I'd take our third line over either of their's. A big part of our success last year came from the Gallys eating other team's third lines for breakfast.

But even if we give Philly and Toronto the edges here, this is just the forwards we're comparing, which is definitely Philly and Toronto's strong suit. The D and G are frequent problems for Philly and Toronto, and that's where we have Price and the reigning Norris Trophy winner.

Surely all the Price believers on this site would put him ahead of Emery, Mason, Reimer, and Bernier?

 

[HTTP 400]

Wow how long did it take you to write that? Price himself said he wasn't good and Bergevin himself said Price was not good enough and needed to be better in the playoffs...but hey thanks for the recap what do they know!

Clearly longer than it took you to answer...

Where did I say Price was good enough? Clearly, he wasn't good enough to allow last year roster to pass the 1st round. He wasn't "Halak-good" and we sure can expect him to be better.

All I said, is that I was under the impression he was shaky all playoffs, but watching all the goals again, I had to admit I was wrong. If like you said, he wasn't good enough (I somehow agree), he clearly wasn't that bad either.

 

[rafal majka]

No one is saying get a big body for the sake of that player having a big body. (OK yes some fans may say that, but ignore them) Having players like LG is referring to is to help in goal differential, but screening the goalie, the habs could score more goals. Also SV % and again goal differential would be helped by having players that are not tired by the end of the game and can clear the front of the net.

I don't believe having a roster of 6 foot 6, 240 players all over the roster, but have the right ones, in the right spots. You can't say the habs don't lack those type of players in the right situation, can you??

With the midget squad they've got, the Habs were 3rd in goal differential last year.

San Jose has mammoth players up front. I don't see many Cup wins for them. Sure, I'd love to have a Bertuzzi-built player up front (big with good hands and can skate) but these players are few and far between. Given a few years perhaps McCarron might be that player. Chicago had one of the smallest rosters last year yet they won the Cup. To say that Habs cannot win a Cup because they have no big bodies is just ridiculous.

 

[onemorecup*]

You know there's a difference between debarle and great.

Tell me in the 4 games Price played in that playoffs, how many did he really shat the bed.

No doubt Anderson won the best goalie contest... but to say it was a debacle for Price is just plain wrong.

agreed our d was atrocious down low and in our zone

 

[rafal majka]

Clearly longer than it took you to answer...

Where did I say Price was good enough? Clearly, he wasn't good enough to allow last year roster to pass the 1st round. He wasn't "Halak-good" and we sure can expect him to be better.

All I said, is that I was under the impression he was shaky all playoffs, but watching all the goals again, I had to admit I was wrong. If like you said, he wasn't good enough (I somehow agree), he clearly wasn't that bad either.

In that series, Price played below his career SV% and Anderson played well above his. Pretty much the story of the series.

 

[onemorecup*]

With the midget squad they've got, the Habs were 3rd in goal differential last year.

San Jose has mammoth players up front. I don't see many Cup wins for them. Sure, I'd love to have a Bertuzzi-built player up front (big with good hands and can skate) but these players are few and far between. Given a few years perhaps McCarron might be that player. Chicago had one of the smallest rosters last year yet they won the Cup. To say that Habs cannot win a Cup because they have no big bodies is just ridiculous.

the Hawks play hard and have solid players , they arent that small

The Hawks have the right fit pieces , we dont

we dont have Shaw, Bolland , Kruger , Froilk, etc on the bottom 6 who check , play tough , kill penalties , play the broards and contribute goals

The Bruins have the best 4th line hockey , Campbell, Thornton , and Paille will score more gaols in a playoff year than our jerks will do in 82 games , they are effective

we had junk like Colby, Dumont, and clowns who cant contribute what a bottom 6 should do

those teams dont have Gios, dd, Diaz , Cubes in thier lineup

Gorghes is a third paiing guy on a top team , we play him like he is a top 2

bro our roster is so flawed that you metion cup in a sentence is ridiculous.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

In that series, Price played below his career SV% and Anderson played well above his. Pretty much the story of the series.

Yeah, strange how that happened.

 

[onemorecup*]

No one is saying get a big body for the sake of that player having a big body. (OK yes some fans may say that, but ignore them) Having players like LG is referring to is to help in goal differential, but screening the goalie, the habs could score more goals. Also SV % and again goal differential would be helped by having players that are not tired by the end of the game and can clear the front of the net.

I don't believe having a roster of 6 foot 6, 240 players all over the roster, but have the right ones, in the right spots. You can't say the habs don't lack those type of players in the right situation, can you??

agreed , too many players in wrong positions

 

[onemorecup*]

You mailed it in on that one, Price wasn't 'great' for the most part last season. I'd say our defense is a bigger concern than our goaltending or the Gallys being affected by the sophomore jynx. By the way, how the hell are Detroit's forwards bigger and tougher than us? Also maybe you should have mentionned a couple of other factors for our quick playoff exit instead of pointing fingers at Price.

great post

 

[rafal majka]

the Hawks play hard and have solid players , they arent that small

The Hawks have the right fit pieces , we dont

we dont have Shaw, Bolland , Kruger , Froilk, etc on the bottom 6 who check , play tough , kill penalties , play the broards and contribute goals

The Bruins have the best 4th line hockey , Campbell, Thornton , and Paille will score more gaols in a playoff year than our jerks will do in 82 games , they are effective

we had junk like Colby, Dumont, and clowns who cant contribute what a bottom 6 should do

those teams dont have Gios, dd, Diaz , Cubes in thier lineup

Gorghes is a third paiing guy on a top team , we play him like he is a top 2

bro our roster is so flawed that you metion cup in a sentence is ridiculous.

As has been pointed out by WTK in another thread, it's not necessarily the Habs' D that is flawed (outside of the Cube) it's how it's implemented by the coaching staff.

The rest of your post is just ranting with spelling mistakes.

 

[Habs]

It was just a fluke they were banged up at that time.

Every team has injuries, it was just a coincidence that ours were at the wrong time.

How many years are we going to use this excuse? You can't ice a team this small year after year and expect different results.

 

[sharks9]

How many years are we going to use this excuse? You can't ice a team this small year after year and expect different results.

It has nothing to do with size, it's about skill.

We're just not good enough. The Blackhawks won with a small team, but they're just a much better team than us.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It has nothing to do with size, it's about skill.

We're just not good enough. The Blackhawks won with a small team, but they're just a much better team than us.

The Hawks won in large part because Johnathan Toews went to the net and stayed there. He got the tar beat out of him but he stayed there and drove Rask crazy. Once he did this the Hawks took over the series.

We don't have players his size who do this and it's a big reason (not the only one but a big reason) why we don't win. It's beyond stupid to say that size isn't important... it IS. If it wasn't then the average size of an NHLer would be a lot closer to the norm of the population. Size matters.

You don't have to have a huge team but it's freaking hard to win when your top nine is made up of mostly smurfs. Please don't point to Patrick Kane or Martin St. Louis... they are elite players (something our smurfs are not) and they are the exception not the rule. DD is pretty ****ing far away from their talents... not only do we have smurfs but they aren't elite players. That's another difference.

 

[Adriatic]

It has nothing to do with size, it's about skill.

We're just not good enough. The Blackhawks won with a small team, but they're just a much better team than us.

What the hell are you smoking? The hawks don't have anybody the size of Desharnais, Briere, Gionta or even Gallagher playing in their top 9. Their smallest forward is Andrew Shaw and he's like 5'10 or something and he's a little pesty agitator that doesn't mind when it gets physical.