Season-opening top 9 set?

[2 Minute Minor]

No Jaskin call-up?

Frankly? Probably not unless there is a rash of injuries. Its not that he doesn't deserve it or wouldn't be ready....but the team is totally stacked.

Maybe if a trade occurs to open up space, but I don't see that unless they package a couple players for an upgrade/rental at the trade deadline. Then Jaskin comes up. But that doesn't seem quite like Armstrong's style. I think this year he's built the team he thinks will contend for the Cup and this is it.

 

[JamieG]

Well he's not a staple on the 3rd line and rightfully so.

And fans overrate him because he's an undersized player that works hard, that's really it. It has always been like that with fans from St. Louis regarding both the Blues and Cardinals.

Then dump him. There's bigger, younger, cheaper players for the 4th line.

I totally disagree about him not being capable of excelling on the 3rd line and there's a list 50 miles long of undersized hard working players that have thrived in that role over the years.

But my point is mgtm seems to agree with you, so just cut the cord.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sobotka is an ideal #10 forward, nothing more nothing less.

 

[kimzey59]

Then dump him. There's bigger, younger, cheaper players for the 4th line.

I totally disagree about him not being capable of excelling on the 3rd line and there's a list 50 miles long of undersized hard working players that have thrived in that role over the years.

But my point is mgtm seems to agree with you, so just cut the cord.

He makes 1.4 mil with a cap hit of 1.3 mil.
Not getting your "cheaper" argument at all.

He's also younger than Cracknell, Porter and Reaves.
Unless you're referring to Jaskin(who needs to be developing his offensive game) and Paajarvi(who may very well end up on the 4th line with Sobi and Lapierre), I'm not getting your "younger" argument either. Sobotka is actually the youngest of our 4th line guys(and I'm even including Aucoin, Bolduc and Hanson in that statement).

The only thing you've said that rings true is the "size" bit, but even then Sobotka is more effective in the physical game than guys with more size(Porter, Cracknell) due to his high motor, tenacity and superior defensive game.

I don't know what your true issue really is; but the argument you've present completely falls apart in the face of the facts.

 

[rumrokh]

He makes 1.4 mil with a cap hit of 1.3 mil.
Not getting your "cheaper" argument at all.

He's also younger than Cracknell, Porter and Reaves.
Unless you're referring to Jaskin(who needs to be developing his offensive game) and Paajarvi(who may very well end up on the 4th line with Sobi and Lapierre), I'm not getting your "younger" argument either. Sobotka is actually the youngest of our 4th line guys(and I'm even including Aucoin, Bolduc and Hanson in that statement).

The only thing you've said that rings true is the "size" bit, but even then Sobotka is more effective in the physical game than guys with more size(Porter, Cracknell) due to his high motor, tenacity and superior defensive game.

I don't know what your true issue really is; but the argument you've present completely falls apart in the face of the facts.

All of this, plus, I don't understand what's bad about having good depth. Why wouldn't a team want to have 3rd line capable players on their 4th line?

It seems like this "cut the cord" talk is coming from some someone thinking they're standing up for Sobotka and has an impression that Sobotka has not gotten appropriate opportunity and responsibility, when he plainly has and will likely continue to get it.

 

[mk80]

I will take a 3rd line capable player on my 4th line any day!

Sobotka is a good player, he plays a gritty game, and is good on the PK. He isn't top 9, but as someone else said he is the perfect #10 player in our lineup.

 

[JamieG]

He makes 1.4 mil with a cap hit of 1.3 mil.
Not getting your "cheaper" argument at all.

He's also younger than Cracknell, Porter and Reaves.
Unless you're referring to Jaskin(who needs to be developing his offensive game) and Paajarvi(who may very well end up on the 4th line with Sobi and Lapierre), I'm not getting your "younger" argument either. Sobotka is actually the youngest of our 4th line guys(and I'm even including Aucoin, Bolduc and Hanson in that statement).

The only thing you've said that rings true is the "size" bit, but even then Sobotka is more effective in the physical game than guys with more size(Porter, Cracknell) due to his high motor, tenacity and superior defensive game.

I don't know what your true issue really is; but the argument you've present completely falls apart in the face of the facts.

What I'm hearing from you and others (and Blues management based on their moves) is that Sobotka is a fourth line bit player. A utility guy.

Facts? He makes $1.4 mil and will be 27 years old later on this season. He's also "small" for an NHL player.

You can get a bit player on the 4th line much cheaper than $1.4 and younger than 27. You can also get a bigger body which so many teams value on the 4th line.

What is to dispute about that?

Hockey is about assessing a player's abilities and potential contributions and placing them in roles.

Personally, I think Sobotka is capable of excelling in a permanent 3rd line role. Blues management and many Blues fans think he's a 4th line utility guy.

If that's what they/you think he is, there are better guys for that role than a smallish soon to be 27 year old making 1.4 mil.

 

[bleedblue1223]

There are very few that would be better for that #10 forward spot.

The savings for the downgrade would be minimal. Who cares if the owners save a couple hundred thousand dollars and for the team, we don't need that cap space, so it's not like we could reallocate the savings for an upgrade somewhere else.

Sobotka's size is not a hindrance. His size is actually a benefit for his style and his offensive game for when he plays in the top 9.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

There are very few that would be better for that #10 forward spot.

The savings for the downgrade would be minimal. Who cares if the owners save a couple hundred thousand dollars and for the team, we don't need that cap space, so it's not like we could reallocate the savings for an upgrade somewhere else.

Sobotka's size is not a hindrance. His size is actually a benefit for his style and his offensive game for when he plays in the top 9.

There is way too much talk about size on this forum.

 

[kimzey59]

What I'm hearing from you and others (and Blues management based on their moves) is that Sobotka is a fourth line bit player. A utility guy.

Facts? He makes $1.4 mil and will be 27 years old later on this season. He's also "small" for an NHL player.

You can get a bit player on the 4th line much cheaper than $1.4 and younger than 27. You can also get a bigger body which so many teams value on the 4th line.

What is to dispute about that?

Hockey is about assessing a player's abilities and potential contributions and placing them in roles.

Personally, I think Sobotka is capable of excelling in a permanent 3rd line role. Blues management and many Blues fans think he's a 4th line utility guy.

If that's what they/you think he is, there are better guys for that role than a smallish soon to be 27 year old making 1.4 mil.

What's to dispute?
Maybe the fact that the Blues don't have a "younger, cheaper and bigger" player to fill his role.

As I said, Sobotka is actually the youngest of the players in competition for that spot. His salary is not an issue in the slightest and he uses his body better than those "bigger" players do.

You are arguing a hyperbole instead of addressing the Blues current situation. I'm not saying he is limited to a 4th line position, but he is a damn sure better fit in that position than a guy like Porter, Cracknell or Reaves is. His salary is a non-issue, he is a top notch defensive player and he throws his body around as well as any agitator in the League. The added bonus is that he has some playmaking ability that translates when he moves up a line. Nobody in their right mind would move a player with that kind of versatility, much less waive him. A guy like that is liable to win a PO series for you.

 

[2 Minute Minor]

What I'm hearing from you and others (and Blues management based on their moves) is that Sobotka is a fourth line bit player. A utility guy.

Facts? He makes $1.4 mil and will be 27 years old later on this season. He's also "small" for an NHL player.

You can get a bit player on the 4th line much cheaper than $1.4 and younger than 27. You can also get a bigger body which so many teams value on the 4th line.

What is to dispute about that?

Hockey is about assessing a player's abilities and potential contributions and placing them in roles.

Personally, I think Sobotka is capable of excelling in a permanent 3rd line role. Blues management and many Blues fans think he's a 4th line utility guy.

If that's what they/you think he is, there are better guys for that role than a smallish soon to be 27 year old making 1.4 mil.

Your line of logic seems to make the assumption of zero injuries during the season. Why on earth would the team not want a guy capable of sliding up and being effective? What you suggest is counter-productive for a team loading up for a long grueling season. Its just a nonsense move to entertain the idea of letting Sobotka go simply because he doesn't slate into the current top 9.

Sobotka isn't and hasn't been used as a 'bit player' on the 4th line. He's been a critical penalty killer and even when announced on the 4th line in games, he'll take shifts with the top 9 players here and there. Hitchcock loves the guy, and his ice time and responsibility reflect that.

 

[BlueDream]

Sobotka turned 26 less than 2 months ago.

Soon to be 27 years old though.

 

[fcpremix88]

If Sobotka was on Calgary, I could see him putting up 45 points.

...And he's on our fourth line.



What's the problem here, guys?

 

[oPlaiD]

I can understand somewhat the viewpoint that it'd be a better use of resources to say have Sobotka's salary allocated to the 1st line, say upgrading Stewart from a 4 million to 5.5 or 6 million player, but the fact is that that scenario isn't realistic since the Blues have not had a real chance to acquire a player like that.

So it's fine to take advantage of Sobotka on the 4th line. Especially if, for example, his pk skills allow us to allocate more PP/even strength minutes to more of our top offensive line players. I feel like the past couple of seasons one thing we've missed out on with our balanced lineup was PK type players on the 4th line, since that helps give much more flexibility for our top lines. This season with guys like Sobotka/Lapierre it seems like we're set up for that kind of thing.

 

[Mike Liut]

Sobotka, Oshie, Backes and Steen are what makes the Blues, the Blues. Their style is what gives us our identity. Relentless forecheck and backcheck. Love all 4.

 

[Thekidline]

Sobotka, Oshie, Backes and Steen are what makes the Blues, the Blues. Their style is what gives us our identity. Relentless forecheck and backcheck. Love all 4.

I'd throw Reaves and Schwartz in that group.... I know Reaves is only a 4th line guy but he is fits so well with the system and plays with so much intensity. Schwartz Doesn't make the big hits that the others do but he is a very strong 2 way player that is physical and uses his body very well. He actually kinda reminds me of a slightly less physical Sobotka who has much more offensive skill/talent.

 

[Note Worthy]

I'm most excited to see what Schwartz will do this year. He looked great in the playoffs (other than missing a few open nets, I know) and he has looked great in the preseason. I can't wait to see what he's got.

 

[Thekidline]

I'm most excited to see what Schwartz will do this year. He looked great in the playoffs (other than missing a few open nets, I know) and he has looked great in the preseason. I can't wait to see what he's got.

I agree, I think he could really cement himself with Oshie Backes and Steen as the most trust worthy and consistent forwards at both ends of the ice on this team.

 

[Spektre]

From the Post:

Hitchcock said he could envision the Blues' opening the regular season with the same top-nine that skated today. Here they are....

***

TODAY'S LINEUP

Forwards

Alexander Steen-David Backes-T.J. Oshie

Brenden Morrow-Derek Roy-Chris Stewart

Jaden Schwartz-Patrik Berglund-Vladimir Tarasenko​

So Magnus Pääjärvi is a 4th liner ??

Oshie should not be on the top line. He should be playing with Berglund. Those two have always had chemistry and never had a coach that could see it.

The #1 line should be Steen Roy Tarasenko
#2 Schwartz Backes Stewart
#3 Pääjärvi Berglund Oshie
4th Sobokta Lapierre Morrow

 

[Mike Liut]

I'd throw Reaves and Schwartz in that group.... I know Reaves is only a 4th line guy but he is fits so well with the system and plays with so much intensity. Schwartz Doesn't make the big hits that the others do but he is a very strong 2 way player that is physical and uses his body very well. He actually kinda reminds me of a slightly less physical Sobotka who has much more offensive skill/talent.

I actually almost included Reaves. I agree with you. He's one of my favorite players

 

[Hooliganx3]

So Magnus Pääjärvi is a 4th liner ??

Oshie should not be on the top line. He should be playing with Berglund. Those two have always had chemistry and never had a coach that could see it.

The #1 line should be Steen Roy Tarasenko
#2 Schwartz Backes Stewart
#3 Pääjärvi Berglund Oshie
4th Sobokta Lapierre Morrow

Roy was aquired to play with Stewart. He needs a playmaker center. MPS has been unimpressive so he may start off as a healthy scratch.

 

[Spektre]

Roy was aquired to play with Stewart. He needs a playmaker center. MPS has been unimpressive so he may start off as a healthy scratch.

Schwartz would give Backes & Stewart a play maker.

If MPS is a healthy scratch then Army failed miserably with the Perron trade. You don't trade Perron for someone who can't crack the top 12 even if there's a financial aspect to the deal.

 

[Captain Creampuff]

Schwartz would give Backes & Stewart a play maker.

If MPS is a healthy scratch then Army failed miserably with the Perron trade. You don't trade Perron for someone who can't crack the top 12 even if there's a financial aspect to the deal.

Please read the Pajaarvi thread before saying such crazy things. He's 22 years old playing on a new team that is considered one of the deepest teams in the NHL.

 

[Spektre]

Please read the Pajaarvi thread before saying such crazy things. He's 22 years old playing on a new team that is considered one of the deepest teams in the NHL.

I've read the thread. If you disagree with me that's ok. It's my opinion if MPR doesn't start it's a bad trade. The Blues are in all in mode. If your intention in the off-season as a franchise (which it was) is to trade David Perron that's fine. But you have to get fair value. A bench player is not fair value at this moment in time.

That's my opinion. You shouldn't name call if you disagree with me.

 

[Thekidline]

I've read the thread. If you disagree with me that's ok. It's my opinion if MPR doesn't start it's a bad trade. The Blues are in all in mode. If your intention in the off-season as a franchise (which it was) is to trade David Perron that's fine. But you have to get fair value. A bench player is not fair value at this moment in time.

That's my opinion. You shouldn't name call if you disagree with me.

I agree with what you are saying based on that the team is in a win now mode. That being said you can't say we lost the trade just cause he doesn't make it in the starting line up for game one. IF he hasn't earned a job in the starting line up by playoff time then saying the trade is a bust wouldn't be to off base. You also have to add that the trade wasn't just about trading Perron it was about clearing cap space to make all the other moves that the blues made to improve this team.