Speculation: Search for a President of Hockey..... Oops

[stempniaksen]

How did his moves blow up exactly? Ryan O'Rielly, Evander Kane and Lehner are all doing incredibly well. Bylsma is no worse than many many other hires and has Cup pedigree. The crazy owner didnt let his team or plan gel he gave him 3 years.

We disagree on Lehner and Kane I suppose. They are great in their new environments, but having them on a young Sabres team with a lack of leadership was a mistake, imo (moreso with Kane than Lehner obviously, as his issues were vastly different). He also acquired an absolute cap anchor with Kane, in Bogosian. I also don't think you can discount the fact he paid A LOT (by goalie standards) for Lehner. He kind of got tunnel vision on that one and did whatever it took to acquire Lehner when he could have been more patient in a saturated goalie market.

He also had the Hudson Fashing trade in which he kinda locked in on his guy and paid "whatever it took" to get him. That ended up being Brayden McNabb and two 2nds, which is insane.

There's also the Jimmy Vesey trade where he gave up a 3rd for ~2 days worth of negotiations rights, only to watch him sign the with the Rangers.

The ROR trade was great, but beyond that I only see minor moves, moves that blew up or moves that didn't fix any specific issues the team had. His "fixing" the defence involved trading for a past-his-prime Gorges, a band-aid Kulikov and crossing his fingers hoping for the best.

Outside of ROR, he took his big swings on the wrong guys, imo. He also got blinded by "getting his guy" and paid whatever price it seemingly took. Props for the brass balls it takes to do that, but when they don't pan out those moves look really silly.

The proof is kind of in the pudding though, the Sabres never turned a corner under his watch. He was brought in to make moves that could get the Sabres moving in the right direction. Instead they bottomed out and he was fired.

 

[bert]

What? No he didn't.

He pointed out that pretty much everyone who was there said it was a ****show of negativity.

Robin Lehner went out of his way to describe how negative it was, even while he was dealing with depression, addiction and suicidal ideation.

Noone said Tim Murray is responsible for Robin Lehner's addictions and mental health. What he said was Tim Murray built a room, hired a coach, and set and maintained a culture that not only did not identify what Lehner's issue was, but made the team a completely ineffective mess.

Edit: If you read the long piece about Lehner, he makes reference to being called into a meeting or equivalent and being ripped up and down as a person, not just a player. It wasn't confirmed whether that was in Ottawa or Buffalo, but it was one of those two places, and given the timelines involved, there is a good chance Tim Murray was involved.

Another assumption.

 

[RaMai]

At least Tim's communication style would be perfect to handle the owner.

EM: Fire the coach!
TM: No!
EM: Trade xyz, he's to expensive for what he brings to the table!
TM: No!
EM: You can't say no, I'm the owner!
TM: No, see!

 

[The Lewler]

Another assumption.

All of his quotes reference Jason Botterill and Lou Lamoriello being tremendous.

No one else. Not TMurr, not the Sens org.

This was in a full piece which he self authored in the Athletic. He had every opportunity to talk about who really made a difference in his life/career, and what was going on.

Edit:

Tim Murray builds a team, brings him in. It goes down in flames.

Tim Murray gets fired. Jason Botteril is hired heading into 2017-2018 season. Lehner plays one year with him at the helm, hits rock bottom. Talks about how great Botterill was. No mention of Tim Murray. Just about how negative it had been in Buffalo "before".

 

[BonkTastic]

He isnt my 'BFF' I am just sticking with the facts not insinuating things about the person that are out of their control.

You are really digging in, here.

I'm perfectly fine and confident with my impressions of Tim Murray, based on the years I spent in that organization.

You are free to believe whatever you want about him. All I ask is that you understand that my opinions of Tim Murray are VERY much based in real life, in actual anecdotal experiences, and in what I consider to be a significant concensus among my peers at the time. I really don't think it's prudent at this point to go into any more detail than that, and I think that's sufficient enough to at least earn me enough credit that even if you disagree with my analysis (which you are more than welcome to, we're certainly not required to agree on his body of work, that's why this is a discussion board instead of a concensus board), that you at least respect the fact that I'm not making these judgements without a body of evidence to work from.

Don't go off all half-cooked calling my posts out for being "irresponsible". No one said you had to hate the guy. I'm just telling you why I personally don't think he's a good hire for a non-scouting Hockey Ops position.

 

[BonkTastic]

What? No he didn't.

He pointed out that pretty much everyone who was there said it was a ****show of negativity.

Robin Lehner went out of his way to describe how negative it was, even while he was dealing with depression, addiction and suicidal ideation.

Noone said Tim Murray is responsible for Robin Lehner's addictions and mental health. What he said was Tim Murray built a room, hired a coach, and set and maintained a culture that not only did not identify what Lehner's issue was, but made the team a completely ineffective mess.

Edit: If you read the long piece about Lehner, he makes reference to being called into a meeting or equivalent and being ripped up and down as a person, not just a player. It wasn't confirmed whether that was in Ottawa or Buffalo, but it was one of those two places, and given the timelines involved, there is a good chance Tim Murray was involved.

Jaysus, thank you.

I'm glad that was clear to SOMEONE.

 

[bert]

You are really digging in, here.

I'm perfectly fine and confident with my impressions of Tim Murray, based on the years I spent in that organization.

You are free to believe whatever you want about him. All I ask is that you understand that my opinions of Tim Murray are VERY much based in real life, in actual anecdotal experiences, and in what I consider to be a significant concensus among my peers at the time. I really don't think it's prudent at this point to go into any more detail than that, and I think that's sufficient enough to at least earn me enough credit that even if you disagree with my analysis (which you are more than welcome to, we're certainly not required to agree on his body of work, that's why this is a discussion board instead of a concensus board), that you at least respect the fact that I'm not making these judgements without a body of evidence to work from.

Don't go off all half-cooked calling my posts out for being "irresponsible". No one said you had to hate the guy. I'm just telling you why I personally don't think he's a good hire for a non-scouting Hockey Ops position.

Fair enough, I also have personally dealt with him so I am familiar with him and his character. So we will just agree to dissagree.

 

[BonkTastic]

Fair enough, I also have personally dealt with him so I am familiar with him and his character. So we will just agree to dissagree.

I'm fine with that if you are.

 

[Ouroboros]

Tim Murray is likely going to get a gig with the Flyers this summer in a scouting/director of player personnel type role.

 

[Cosmix]

Never going to happen.

There's a reason you've never heard a single rumour EVER about T-Murr's return to the Sens org. Timmy burned that bridge when he left.

Also: I literally can't think of a WORSE choice than Tim Murray for POHO. The guy for this role is going to need to be a master communicator and strategist. You'd have a better chance of asking Timmy to fly to the moon in a cardboard box. T-Murr is a good scout... a really good scout, sure... but that's basically it.

As far as "managing relationships" as a skill set is concerned, I'd rather have an inanimate carbon rod as POHO than Tim Murray.

So would I.

I was being sarcastic.

 

[Cosmix]

I am sure that Melnyk's delaying all hires to delay having to pay them.

I think the Senators will hire the best available personnel (coach, POHO, etc.). AFTER all other teams have filled their positions so the Senators can pay the lowest possible salary costs!

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Expected but good move

 

[Silencio]

At least give Melnyk a chance to counter with his final offer: $17 Barbadian dollars in loose change and a signed copy of his Christmas safari calendar.

 

[Tuna99]

Detroit ADDS Yzerman and keeps their front office staff.

Ottawa can’t even compete in the AHL. And we expect to compete in the NHL when our former players are all saying simultaneously they are happy to be gone.

It’s bad. Very bad.

The coach they hire is going to have to be a players coach because Ottawa needs to build a reputation with the players or no me will ever stay.

Ottawa has to have the worst reputation of any NHL team and that’s just so sad. It all starts at the top.

 

[BonkTastic]

Ottawa has to have the worst reputation of any NHL team and that’s just so sad. It all starts at the top.

Oh, we are absolutely the new "Edmonton".

Execs don't want to come here. Rumours this trade deadline was that we were on almost every single "limited trade clause" no-trade list. Even the coaching search is going to be limited to first-timers looking for a break, and retreads that no one else wants.

It's bad.

 

[topshelf15]

Oh, we are absolutely the new "Edmonton".

Execs don't want to come here. Rumours this trade deadline was that we were on almost every single "limited trade clause" no-trade list. Even the coaching search is going to be limited to first-timers looking for a break, and retreads that no one else wants.

It's bad.

So how are we supposed to get a new GF ???They all hate us sniff lol

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Detroit ADDS Yzerman and keeps their front office staff.

Ottawa can’t even compete in the AHL. And we expect to compete in the NHL when our former players are all saying simultaneously they are happy to be gone.

It’s bad. Very bad.

The coach they hire is going to have to be a players coach because Ottawa needs to build a reputation with the players or no me will ever stay.

Ottawa has to have the worst reputation of any NHL team and that’s just so sad. It all starts at the top.

FACT CHECK - Belleville competes in the AHL and had a pretty good season considering the injuries. Ottawa is rebuilding. Get over it.

FACT CHECK - "Happy they are gone" - relating to Stone's comments yesterday. This is your interpretation. Does not mean he is happy to be gone from here. He meant happy to be in the playoffs and playing still. My interpretation.

FACT CHECK - "Ottawa has to have the worst reputation of any NHL" Really? How do you quantify this statement. Of all time? This year?



Stop bashing for no reason other than bashing.

Wait to see if they hire a real POHO... then complain if it's Melnyk brother inlaw or someone who used to sell 50/50 tickets at the CTC

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Tim Murray under Melnyk would be hilarious.

He would either last here because Melnyk would respect him as an adversary, or he'd be gone in a week.

For better or worse, he got fired in BUF because he would not let the owner dictate his coaching choices. Obviously, that situation only came about because he did not build a successful team, but he might still have kept his job for longer had he canned Bylsma.

There are also the rumblings from people her and people on twitter that him and Dorion have some sort of longstanding beef that would prevent Murray from ever returning to the Senators.

He seems completely stubborn and non-political to his own detriment. I think it might be one of the great crimes in Senators history that we never got to see the Melnyk/Tim Murray era, even if it only would have lasted a week.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

ROR trade was also an A+ trade. He robbed Colorado.

O'Reilly is comparable to Duchene, maybe better depending on what kind of team you want to build. He gave up a B+ prospect in Zadorov who hasn't amounted to very much, the 31st pick, and another B prospect in Compher for an extended O'Reilly in his mid 20's. Just beautiful.

He gave up so little for O'Reilly that even the 1st+Tage Thompson return probably made them pretty close to asset neutral.

I don't think he was a good GM, but he had his moments. People also need to give him credit for tanking. Nobody else was smart enough to do it which blows my mind. I get that a team like a Pittsburgh can't tank, but for the perpetual bottom 10 type teams, you have a year where if you finish last place you are guaranteed Jack Eichel. How do you not tank? Whatever negativity comes from one year of tanking will be outdone by a decade of a franchise center.

How many decades has MTL gone without a 1C? Tim Murray got BUF two of them in 12 months.

 

[Yak]

They are keeping this search either very quiet or waiting till after the playoffs.

Would nice to hear about some candidates for us to bicker about...lol

Hopefully some league suggestions or maybe the league has picked someone for EM to keep the circus under control.

Hextall, Hunter, Maloney, Nonis just a few names that come to mind or speculted on. Chances are it will be someone off the charts.

 

[Peptic Balcers]

They are keeping this search either very quiet or waiting till after the playoffs.

Would nice to hear about some candidates for us to bicker about...lol

Hopefully some league suggestions or maybe the league has picked someone for EM to keep the circus under control.

Hextall, Hunter, Maloney, Nonis just a few names that come to mind or speculted on. Chances are it will be someone off the charts.

My theory is that so many candidates have said no, they're just keeping quiet and hoping everyone forgets that they were looking for one. And then just deny that they were actively seeking one and insist it "was just something that we were considering, I think this front office looks great with or without a president of hockey operations"

 

[BondraTime]

FACT CHECK - Belleville competes in the AHL and had a pretty good season considering the injuries. Ottawa is rebuilding. Get over it.

FACT CHECK - "Happy they are gone" - relating to Stone's comments yesterday. This is your interpretation. Does not mean he is happy to be gone from here. He meant happy to be in the playoffs and playing still. My interpretation.

FACT CHECK - "Ottawa has to have the worst reputation of any NHL" Really? How do you quantify this statement. Of all time? This year?



Stop bashing for no reason other than bashing.

Wait to see if they hire a real POHO... then complain if it's Melnyk brother inlaw or someone who used to sell 50/50 tickets at the CTC

What he said is correct though.

Belleville never had a good season, they had 1 extremely good stretch and then were bottom quarter of the league outside of those 20 games. Never made the playoffs when the ball was in their court. Every team deals with injuries.

He said he "If I wasn't having fun, I'd still be in Ottawa" and signed a 1 year deal straight to UFA, read between the lines.

Clearly Ottawa has the worst reputation in the NHL now, saying otherwise is insane. Why would he need to further elaborate on this very obvious point?

He's bashing because it's something that has happened, and is happening in front of us. It's not bashing for the sake of bashing



Why would people wait before commenting on something like the POHO that clearly isn't going well? Everything we have heard, and precedent tells us what to expect. I mean we were told we were hiring another AGM shortly after we hired our current fella, and that hasn't been heard of since

 

[RaMai]

What he said is correct though.

Belleville never had a good season, they had 1 extremely good stretch and then were bottom quarter of the league outside of those 20 games. Never made the playoffs when the ball was in their court. Every team deals with injuries.

He said he "If I wasn't having fun, he'd still be in Ottawa" and signed a 1 year deal straight to UFA, read between the lines.

Clearly Ottawa has the worst reputation in the NHL now, saying otherwise is insane. Why would he need to further elaborate on this very obvious point?

He's bashing because it's something that has happened, and is happening in front of us. It's not bashing for the sake of bashing



Why would people wait before commenting on something like the POHO that clearly isn't going well? Everything we have heard, and precedent tells us what to expect.

And to add to this, how long is long enough to wait for hires? AGM, POHO, HC...

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Last we heard they had not defined the role. Makes hiring someone difficult. Giving Pierre Dorion complete autonomy for any decisions is also a red flag to anyone qualified that might be interested.