Speculation: Search for a President of Hockey..... Oops

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

It's bad when I can't even remember who our assistant GM is without looking it up, and coming away disappointed every single time.

Hired as some kind of contract expert, but they can't actually sign anyone. I can't help but wonder if this guy has even had to come to work yet.

 

[swiftwin]

It's bad when I can't even remember who our assistant GM is without looking it up, and coming away disappointed every single time.

It makes sense, really.

If we can get a decent hockey guy, like a former player in the President role, it would be perfect. We'd have all our bases covered. The AGM covers the contract nitty gritty. Dorion has the player/prospect evaluation and trade negotiations. The new hockey ops prez would handle Melnyk, PR, and player relations with the front office.

 

[BatherSeason]

It makes sense, really.

If we can get a decent hockey guy, like a former player in the President role, it would be perfect. We'd have all our bases covered. The AGM covers the contract nitty gritty. Dorion has the player/prospect evaluation and trade negotiations. The new hockey ops prez would handle Melnyk, PR, and player relations with the front office.

Exactly how a professional sports organization should operate.

 

[aragorn]

Assistant GM - Peter McTavish - The Senators said in a statement that MacTavish’s focus will include contracts, salary arbitration and managerial support of hockey operations, both in Ottawa and with the Belleville Senators of the American Hockey League.

It's too bad they are not cleaning house & could wait until PD's contract is up to bring in a whole new management team. I like the Hunters, Mark for GM & Dale for coach but I doubt they would come here to work with this dickhead owner. IMO whoever the new President is he will have to live within the parameters set up by this owner & accept that he may not be able to remove the GM for a yr or two & have to live with the team spending at the cap floor for the same time frame.

IMO Peter Chiarelli is probably the leading contender for the President's job & since he is from the area might have a little better luck in getting more of the corporate community to engage more with this team specifically financially. The Ottawa fans would also accept a home town guy more so than another dud from hogtown who doesn't know what they are doing & has zero connection to the fans & the city. Should be interesting to see the interaction between president & GM next season especially since most of us expect the team to be terrible. Maybe we get our wish & he cans PD sometime next yr & replaces him with ..... himself as GM for a while. I guess we should be careful what we wish for.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The rudderless ship sails on with our tremendous leaders setting the direction.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

You see if we draft these guys going the college route we probably won't even have to sign them for a couple of years. We save even more money.

 

[BonkTastic]

You see if we draft these guys going the college route we probably won't even have to sign them for a couple of years. We save even more money.

But...



... But I actually like that strategy. For development's sake!

 

[Blotto71]

Don't be disappointed. If you think about it... PD is really just an assistant GM in a GM role.

PD is a scout masquerading as an Assistant GM, pretending to be a GM...

 

[Cosmix]

The rudderless ship sails on with our tremendous leaders setting the direction.

Made my effing day!

 

[Cosmix]

I think Melnyk will hire Timmy to screw with Pierre! That combo could be fun to make fun of.

 

[BonkTastic]

I think Melnyk will hire Timmy to screw with Pierre!

Never going to happen.

There's a reason you've never heard a single rumour EVER about T-Murr's return to the Sens org. Timmy burned that bridge when he left.

Also: I literally can't think of a WORSE choice than Tim Murray for POHO. The guy for this role is going to need to be a master communicator and strategist. You'd have a better chance of asking Timmy to fly to the moon in a cardboard box. T-Murr is a good scout... a really good scout, sure... but that's basically it.

As far as "managing relationships" as a skill set is concerned, I'd rather have an inanimate carbon rod as POHO than Tim Murray.

 

[slamigo]

Never going to happen.

There's a reason you've never heard a single rumour EVER about T-Murr's return to the Sens org. Timmy burned that bridge when he left.

Also: I literally can't think of a WORSE choice than Tim Murray for POHO. The guy for this role is going to need to be a master communicator and strategist. You'd have a better chance of asking Timmy to fly to the moon in a cardboard box. T-Murr is a good scout... a really good scout, sure... but that's basically it.

As far as "managing relationships" as a skill set is concerned, I'd rather have an inanimate carbon rod as POHO than Tim Murray.

 

[bert]

Never going to happen.

There's a reason you've never heard a single rumour EVER about T-Murr's return to the Sens org. Timmy burned that bridge when he left.

Also: I literally can't think of a WORSE choice than Tim Murray for POHO. The guy for this role is going to need to be a master communicator and strategist. You'd have a better chance of asking Timmy to fly to the moon in a cardboard box. T-Murr is a good scout... a really good scout, sure... but that's basically it.

As far as "managing relationships" as a skill set is concerned, I'd rather have an inanimate carbon rod as POHO than Tim Murray.

Well I think if they had kept him on in Buffalo they would have been alot better off. They gave up on all his big aquisitions selling them for pennies to the dollar and they are all flourishing. He is a way better hockey mind than the sens current GM thats for sure. He also has a backbone and some ethics the reason he got fired was because he wouldnt fire Byslma after giving him a vote of confidence. You know the exact opposite of what Pierre did this season.

As Jon Snow said in Season 7 Episode 7 'I am not going to swear an oath i cant uphold. When enough people make false promises, words stop meaning anything and there are no more answeres just better and better lies'. Pretty much summs up the organization, but in their case its worse and worse lies and no one believes them at all anymore.

 

[stempniaksen]

Well I think if they had kept him on in Buffalo they would have been alot better off. They gave up on all his big aquisitions selling them for pennies to the dollar and they are all flourishing. He is a way better hockey mind than the sens current GM thats for sure. He also has a backbone and some ethics the reason he got fired was because he wouldnt fire Byslma after giving him a vote of confidence. You know the exact opposite of what Pierre did this season.

As Jon Snow said in Season 7 Episode 7 'I am not going to swear an oath i cant uphold. When enough people make false promises, words stop meaning anything and there are no more answeres just better and better lies'. Pretty much summs up the organization, but in their case its worse and worse lies and no one believes them at all anymore.

His moves blew up and the Bylsma hire was terrible.

He might be better than Botterill/Dorion, but those two don't exactly set a high bar.

 

[bert]

His moves blew up and the Bylsma hire was terrible.

He might be better than Botterill/Dorion, but those two don't exactly set a high bar.

How did his moves blow up exactly? Ryan O'Rielly, Evander Kane and Lehner are all doing incredibly well. Bylsma is no worse than many many other hires and has Cup pedigree. The crazy owner didnt let his team or plan gel he gave him 3 years.

 

[topshelf15]

So guess we are waiting for the best people to become available????Jesus Christ for coach,because his great walking on water abilities...And his father as POHO, to instill the wrath of himself,into any that appose him .....

 

[BonkTastic]

How did his moves blow up exactly? Ryan O'Rielly, Evander Kane and Lehner are all doing incredibly well.

Yeah, in new cities, after significant issues in Buffalo.

Lehner... I think that's well documented enough that we don't have to really re-hash that, but I think it's obvious how disastrous that trade was for Murray, and the fact that it took Lehner hittng rock bottom after LITERAL ACTUAL SUICIDAL TENDENCIES to turn his career around is enough of a condemnation of the toxic atmosphere Murray cultivated in Buffalo to have this be a major strike against him.

Kane was a mess in Buffalo off the ice, a continuation from his Winnipeg days. It took a team who allowed him to just be a secondary piece and a leadership group strong enough in San Jose for him to really flourish as a complimentary guy. His Buffalo tenure was an injury-plagued disaster spotted with off-ice legal issues, coahcability issues (had a couple of team-issued suspensions as a result), and he never was anything close to what the Sabres thought they were getting, nor worth the assets they spent to acquire him.

O'Reilly... well, yeah. O'Reilly was good. That was a good trade. 1-out-of-3 for the trio of players, though.

All things equal, you can't possibly think the Kane and Lehner moves didn't blow up in his face, right? Lehner had to almost die for his revival, and his fall was significantly made worse by the Sabres organization. He overpaid for Kane, who wasn't who they thought he was.

AND ON TOP OF ALL THIS, Murray's achilles heel is in FULL view with these deals - a fundamental lack of awareness about how off-ice factors can affect a team. I've said it since he left - Murray does not understand why psychology and attitude and the mental side of the game is important in team sports. He just flat out doesn't. He has a great eye for raw skill, but he's utterly hopeless at building a team. All of his Buffalo acquisitions hilighted this to a tee. He built an environment so toxic that it couldn't possibly succeed. He handed the keys of the team to players who were absolutely not suited for that role.

Anyways, I've always been willing to give credit to T-Murr for his ability to find skilled players. He's real good at that. The rest of his skillset is borderline detrimental to a hockey team though, IMO.

 

[bert]

Yeah, in new cities, after significant issues in Buffalo.

Lehner... I think that's well documented enough that we don't have to really re-hash that, but I think it's obvious how disastrous that trade was for Murray, and the fact that it took Lehner hittng rock bottom after LITERAL ACTUAL SUICIDAL TENDENCIES to turn his career around is enough of a condemnation of the toxic atmosphere Murray cultivated in Buffalo to have this be a major strike against him.

Kane was a mess in Buffalo off the ice, a continuation from his Winnipeg days. It took a team who allowed him to just be a secondary piece and a leadership group strong enough in San Jose for him to really flourish as a complimentary guy. His Buffalo tenure was an injury-plagued disaster spotted with off-ice legal issues, coahcability issues (had a couple of team-issued suspensions as a result), and he never was anything close to what the Sabres thought they were getting, nor worth the assets they spent to acquire him.

O'Reilly... well, yeah. O'Reilly was good. That was a good trade. 1-out-of-3 for the trio of players, though.

All things equal, you can't possibly think the Kane and Lehner moves didn't blow up in his face, right? Lehner had to almost die for his revival, and his fall was significantly made worse by the Sabres organization. He overpaid for Kane, who wasn't who they thought he was.

AND ON TOP OF ALL THIS, Murray's achilles heel is in FULL view with these deals - a fundamental lack of awareness about how off-ice factors can affect a team. I've said it since he left - Murray does not understand why psychology and attitude and the mental side of the game is important in team sports. He just flat out doesn't. He has a great eye for raw skill, but he's utterly hopeless at building a team. All of his Buffalo acquisitions hilighted this to a tee. He built an environment so toxic that it couldn't possibly succeed. He handed the keys of the team to players who were absolutely not suited for that role.

Anyways, I've always been willing to give credit to T-Murr for his ability to find skilled players. He's real good at that. The rest of his skillset is borderline detrimental to a hockey team though, IMO.

You are usually a very reasonable poster but the first paragraph you are insinuating that Tim Murray is responsible for Lehners battles with mental health.

I dont really need to elaborate on anything else after that one.

The general manager is not responsible for players personal issues these are things that are completely out of their control. To hold it against him is outrageous.

This is an NHL hockey club with terrific support systems these guys live the life its up to them to act like responsible adults.

Id love to hear an explanation why Tim was the reason it was Toxic over anyone else in the organization. Were you there?

He handed the keys off to Ryan O'Rielly a great leader. I really am dissapointed in your post too be honest.

 

[BonkTastic]

In the next 2-3 years, either some team is going to hire Tim Murray in a scouting capacity and be REALLY happy with the results, or someone's going to give him a managerial role and it's not going to end well.

 

[BonkTastic]

You are usually a very reasonable poster but the first paragraph you are insinuating that Tim Murray is responsible for his battles with mental health.

I'm saying that Tim Murray's lack of ability to understand "intangibles" led to a pretty toxic environment in Buffalo. I don't think anyone can deny that Buffalo was a real bad place to play for a long while - Lehner himself admitted to that. I'm saying the organization, under Murray's stewardship failed to build a healthy atmosphere for players.

Lehner's own words, here:

"That was one of the hard things when I was in Buffalo, just this cloud and atmosphere of negativity.”

"Buffalo prepared me. It couldn’t be any worse. Buffalo would prepare me to go to Toronto. It was so bad there sometimes. You would walk out to games and the game hadn’t started and people are already booing. It’s an incredibly passionate fan base and they’re filling that building, but it can be miserable in that rink.

I'm certainly not saying that Tim Murray was like... a bully and picked on Lehner or anything. It wasn't like an active "let's make Robin's life a living hell" thing. Murray isn't evil. He's just oblivious. I absolutely think that Lehner's downfall was an eventuality, but the Buffalo negativity has been suggested at from other former players in that market if I recall correctly.

This is a sensitive topic - let's not be putting words into anyone's mouth here, ok?

 

[BatherSeason]

So guess we are waiting for the best people to become available????Jesus Christ for coach,because his great walking on water abilities...And his father as POHO, to instill the wrath of himself,into any that appose him .....

I am sure that Melnyk's delaying all hires to delay having to pay them.

 

[bert]

I'm saying that Tim Murray's lack of ability to understand "intangibles" led to a pretty toxic environment in Buffalo. I don't think anyone can deny that Buffalo was a real bad place to play for a long while - Lehner himself admitted to that. I'm saying the organization, under Murray's stewardship failed to build a healthy atmosphere for players.

Lehner's own words, here:

"That was one of the hard things when I was in Buffalo, just this cloud and atmosphere of negativity.”

"Buffalo prepared me. It couldn’t be any worse. Buffalo would prepare me to go to Toronto. It was so bad there sometimes. You would walk out to games and the game hadn’t started and people are already booing. It’s an incredibly passionate fan base and they’re filling that building, but it can be miserable in that rink.

I'm certainly not saying that Tim Murray was like... a bully and picked on Lehner or anything. It wasn't like an active "let's make Robin's life a living hell" thing. Murray isn't evil. He's just oblivious. I absolutely think that Lehner's downfall was an eventuality, but the Buffalo negativity has been suggested at from other former players in that market if I recall correctly.

This is a sensitive topic - let's not be putting words into anyone's mouth here, ok?

Do you think playing in the AHL is less or more toxic than playing in the NHL from a lifestyle and support standpoint? They are playing in the show man, its 5 star hotels and millions of dollars. They have therapists, multiple coachs, life style coachs, health coachs etc.

Tim was the one that drafted and gave Lehner all the support and votes of confidence his entire career. He took every chance on him up to that point, I know he was very upset when Tim was let go. When was that quote taken and when was Lehner refering to exactly? Was it after Tim was gone?

In the next 2-3 years, either some team is going to hire Tim Murray in a scouting capacity and be REALLY happy with the results, or someone's going to give him a managerial role and it's not going to end well.

Tim built the Sens from an Assistant General Manager position Binghampton literally won it all. All these players that are flourishing outside of Duchene that arent on the sens were his responsibility. I really think you have an unwarranted hate here that frankly isnt factual.

 

[BonkTastic]

I really am dissapointed in your post too be honest.

I think you need to take a step back and check your outrage here.

I'm sorry I don't like your BFF Tim Murray, jesus. I've even gone on record that he's very good at the things he's good at. I have plenty of reasons not to like the rest of the package, at least from a hockey ops perspective.

And to answer your other question - I worked for the Sens when Tim Murray was in Ottawa. I'm not just talking out of my arse here. I'm simply taking what I know about him, and what was said about him, from when I used to be in the building 5 days a week, and applying it to the problems that are very much on record as having happened in Buffalo.

Don't try and take some hypothetical moral high ground that doesn't even exist as a get-out-of-jail-free card in the debate because you don't like what I'm saying about the guy.

 

[The Lewler]

You are usually a very reasonable poster but the first paragraph you are insinuating that Tim Murray is responsible for Lehners battles with mental health.

I dont really need to elaborate on anything else after that one.

The general manager is not responsible for players personal issues these are things that are completely out of their control. To hold it against him is outrageous.

This is an NHL hockey club with terrific support systems these guys live the life its up to them to act like responsible adults.

Id love to hear an explanation why Tim was the reason it was Toxic over anyone else in the organization. Were you there?

He handed the keys off to Ryan O'Rielly a great leader. I really am dissapointed in your post too be honest.

What? No he didn't.

He pointed out that pretty much everyone who was there said it was a shitshow of negativity.

Robin Lehner went out of his way to describe how negative it was, even while he was dealing with depression, addiction and suicidal ideation.

Noone said Tim Murray is responsible for Robin Lehner's addictions and mental health. What he said was Tim Murray built a room, hired a coach, and set and maintained a culture that not only did not identify what Lehner's issue was, but made the team a completely ineffective mess.

Edit: If you read the long piece about Lehner, he makes reference to being called into a meeting or equivalent and being ripped up and down as a person, not just a player. It wasn't confirmed whether that was in Ottawa or Buffalo, but it was one of those two places, and given the timelines involved, there is a good chance Tim Murray was involved.

 

[bert]

I think you need to take a step back and check your outrage here.

I'm sorry I don't like your BFF Tim Murray, jesus. I've even gone on record that he's very good at the things he's good at. I have plenty of reasons not to like the rest of the package, at least from a hockey ops perspective.

And to answer your other question - I worked for the Sens when Tim Murray was in Ottawa. I'm not just talking out of my arse here. I'm simply taking what I know about him, and what was said about him, from when I used to be in the building 5 days a week, and applying it to the problems that are very much on record as having happened in Buffalo.

Don't try and take some hypothetical moral high ground that doesn't even exist as a get-out-of-jail-free card in the debate because you don't like what I'm saying about the guy.

He isnt my 'BFF' I am just sticking with the facts not insinuating things about the person that are out of their control.