Sean Avery: We Were Wrong, We're Sorry (Plaschke)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ensane

EL GUAPO
Mar 2, 2002
15,746
69
craig1 said:
You have to undersand that these are guys who for the most part are ignorant to their ignorance. A lot would not pass a GED exam. The few that came from the college ranks were there for hockey, with majors that no realistic individual would look at. Yes, there are exceptions.
Hey now! I hear Jason Spezza did quite well in his home ec and basket weaving courses at Holy Names High School in Windsor.
 

Pepper

Registered User
Aug 30, 2004
14,693
269
Newsguyone said:
Sean Avery is a brainless punk.
I defy anyone to disagree.

HEh, your bitterness couldn't be any more obvious. Weren't you one of them who claimed that players got better deal now than the february offer? Well Avery seems to disagree.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
gscarpenter2002 said:
Maybe it is easy in your company picnic slow pitch game. At even the mid-elite level of baseball (or softball, for that matter), it is quite a trick. I have played high-level fastpitch softball. In that game, most AB's end in a strikeout.

Anybody who even remotely compares baseball to hockey in terms of difficult hand-eye athletic endeavours has no idea what they are talking about.

I can definitely second the motion on fast pitch. The pitch can actually be faster than baseball due to the full windmill windups and the pitching distance is shorter.

I've seen exhibitions where fast pitch softball pitchers have consistently embarassed MLB batters.

One personal story. At a work beer league softball game (mostly engineers and most not very athletic, at least not in your typical beefy softball kind of way), we were being hassled by a group of macho construction worker / longshoreman type guys who wanted our field. Finally they wanted to challenge us for the field. After much prodding, realizing they weren't going to go away, we agreed, provided that our pitcher could pitch anyway he (she) wanted. They foolishly agreed. Up to the mound steps Stacy, a former college softball picher at USC (IIRC) - 18 up, 18 down, only two not by strikeouts. Boy, it was a joy watching them be emarassed by a "girl".
 

HockeyCritter

Registered User
Dec 10, 2004
5,656
0
craig1 said:
You have to undersand that these are guys who for the most part are ignorant to their ignorance. A lot would not pass a GED exam. The few that came from the college ranks were there for hockey, with majors that no realistic individual would look at. Yes, there are exceptions.

These are individuals who, for the most part, truly do not understand what is going on around them in a business sense. The less ignorant ones have someone to help manage their money, but even then are usually robbed blind by said person. The ignorant ones just end up broke from lavish spending on consumables and fast depreciating assets (cars, etc). Again, I say this from experience having known many of these individuals, and their lifestyles.

These guys are expected to understand how a business operates? How a CBA functions? Understand that it was more financially beneficial to not operate last season than to operate (see porduce/not produce theories of general cost accounting)?

These are themental equivilent of high schoolers being led by a lawyer. They don't have the mental acumen, nor education such as myself or some others here. They don't comprehend the entire scope of what was going on. I don't blame them for their ignorance, as it was a career choice. I do blame them if they did not question or attempt to fully comprehend the situation they were dealing with (I cannot say who did, and who didn't, since I don't know what fully happened with ah individual behind losed doors).
It still falls to the individual to figure out what is best for him regardless of his education. As I said, if I were merely a high school graduate, but one making millions of dollars I would make damned sure I quickly learned where that money is coming from, where it is going, and double check any advice I was given. To blindly follow anyone because he has a degree is foolish.
 

ScottyBowman

Registered User
Mar 10, 2003
2,361
0
Detroit
Visit site
ColoradoHockeyFan said:
Avery has officially stiffed Leafs Lunch. Host now apologizing for Avery's absence. Apparently they've been trying to call him for quite a while now, but no answer. They had arranged the interview with him at around 10am this morning.

This says all you need to know about this punk.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
ResidentAlien said:
Hate to admit it, cuz most the time he sounds so damn arrogant;), but he is absolutely right.
And he threw in Eddie Feigner, nicely done
:handclap:

OB hockey reference: I saw the King and his Court strike out Trottier, Potvin, and Gillies at a charity softball game, and Eddie Feigner had to be in his mid fifties by then.
 

Pepper

Registered User
Aug 30, 2004
14,693
269
Jester said:
is it as physically violent as football? no, but it ain't far off... the collisions in hockey have a lot more force in them at that, simply not as often.

very few sports combine physicality, raw athletic skills (balance, stamina, strength, etc.), and specialized hand-eye ability as well as hockey.

Actually hockey is much more violent than football, the forces involved are much higher because of higher speeds & shorter stopping distances. Also there's less protection to the head, football players don't have to worry about somebody burying their shoulder on their face with crushing force.

Rugby is much more violent than american football because of the lack of padding.
 

SENSible1*

Guest
HockeyCritter said:
It still falls to the individual to figure out what is best for him regardless of his education. As I said, if I were merely a high school graduate, but one making millions of dollars I would make damned sure I quickly learned where that money is coming from, where it is going, and double check any advice I was given. To blindly follow anyone because he has a degree is foolish.

The real problem is that the agents had to tow the company line since they were beholding to Goodenow for their livelyhood. If they were free from negative consequences they could have done a far better job of getting their clients to put pressure on Goodenow to take a more reasonable stance.

No one should reasonably expect hockey players to understand the workings of a complicated CBA, however the people they pay to look out for their interests (agents) shouldn't be coerced into abdicating their duties to their clients
 

saskhab

Registered User
May 12, 2004
994
0
Saskatoon
www.puckworlds.com
gscarpenter2002 said:
Hockey is no where on the list of "hardest" sports to play.
Most people in the world can't even skate, let alone play the sport.

I'm not trying to say one is more difficult than the other. I think being a good pitcher is tougher than a good hitter in baseball, to be honest. Percentages are what they are... they only apply to one sport. It's why I brought up shooting percentage when the one guy brought up batting average as an argument... it's usually not meant to be easy. In basketball, if you are hitting around 45% of your field goals, it's a good game. Doesn't mean that since baseball players reach base on 25-30% of their at bats, or hockey players score on about 10% of their shots on goal that one is easier than the other. Percentages are only relevant to the sport they are involved in, and not to be compared from one sport to the other.

But what do I know, I suck at playing most sports.
 

Jester

Registered User
Jul 9, 2004
34,076
11
St. Andrews
Pepper said:
Actually hockey is much more violent than football, the forces involved are much higher because of higher speeds & shorter stopping distances. Also there's less protection to the head, football players don't have to worry about somebody burying their shoulder on their face with crushing force.

i'd much rather be in a big hit once or twice a game in hockey than on the offensive line for 70 plays... and i've done both.

Pepper said:
Rugby is much more violent than american football because of the lack of padding.

much more dangerous due to the lack of padding... not more violent. generally speaking the tackles in rugby aren't nearly as violent...
 

GSC2k2*

Guest
Hasbro said:
Even ESPN has it number 2 Baseball #9. Yeah I guess seven spots is some distance between them, but takes that fishing!
Noted. While I would take issue with the article, particularly the composition of the "experts" that include 2 ESPN columnists who probably haven't done anything more athletic than jog to the refrigerator while watching a game on TV, I would note that the issue being discussed, and which was the main point of my "hardest" comment, was the issue of hitting a baseball as the "hardest" thing in sports. IF you accept the panel's dubious analysis, they do note that hand/eye coordination requirements are higher in baseball than any other sport. That certainly supports the contention that hitting a baseball is the hardest thing in sports.

Mind you, I note that the panel gave golf a ridiculously low rating. THeir ratings put the entire article and analysis into disrepute.

As far as Icon's point, I would agree with most of what he says, although hitting is not quite as "easy" in baseball as he suggests. hitting fastballs is easier, but there are many pro baseball players who still flail wildly at offspeed stuff.

In any event, as someone said (including me), the sports are different and not open to comparison. I was only commeting to someone else's comment that hitting a baseball is not harder than any single activity in hockey. :dunno:
 

tantalum

Hope for the best. Expect the worst
Sponsor
Apr 2, 2002
25,088
13,876
Missouri
So where does hitting a cricket ball fall? The few times I tried that it sure seemed a heck of a lot harder to do than to hit a baseball.
 

Hunter74

Registered User
Sep 21, 2004
1,045
15
Is there any chance that these loud mouths can affect the negotiations negatively?? What is the chance that maybe some of this is all orchestrated and is a big stall tactic by the PA? Go in and negotiate get pretty close to a deal send it to the players who you know will turn it down and then go back to the Owners and say you will have to do better or were gonna be sitting for another year. After giving the owners a good feeling that the end is in sight take it away form them in hopes that therye were tempeted enought to crack. I doubt it but can help but wonder.

If BG thinks he's gonna get canned maybe he screws us all around for alittle while longer as he wont have anythign to lose.

I dont give this guy any respect for coming out and bashing his leadership after the fact. IMHO here is a guy trying tnot be to be held accountible for his role in this horrible even taht took place this winter. Why cant he just take respeonsibility for his actions and not try and blame others. I would give him respect if he said I chose to support the leaderships direction and I like so many others were wrong to do so I am sorry for that. Instead of trying to play the inocent and say "I was brainwashed" like it was out of his hands and he should not be held acountible for his support of the union leadership. But i am sorry i was brainwahsed.

Anyone ever see this guy speak on TV or the radio? He really is a rude ignorant jerk who would say anything to make himself feel or look better. Remember he makes and NHL living b/c of his ability to say things taht get under other players skin. He agitates players not only by being physical but also by being very talented with the his words. Loud mouth people are just as capable of communicating as others they just do so differently.

I think he is full of B.S when he says he feels bad for the fans. I dont hink he is sorry for this lockout at all but just sorry that they didn't win anything and he lost more money than he get out of it.

I bet there are a ton of fans out there just dying to forgive there hockey players once they apologies.
 

ScottyBowman

Registered User
Mar 10, 2003
2,361
0
Detroit
Visit site
Pepper said:
Actually hockey is much more violent than football, the forces involved are much higher because of higher speeds & shorter stopping distances. Also there's less protection to the head, football players don't have to worry about somebody burying their shoulder on their face with crushing force.

Rugby is much more violent than american football because of the lack of padding.

I'd rather get hit on the ice and have my feet slide than on grass where your feet are planted.
 

Levitate

Registered User
Jul 29, 2004
30,948
7,655
kdb209 said:
I can definitely second the motion on fast pitch. The pitch can actually be faster than baseball due to the full windmill windups and the pitching distance is shorter.

I've seen exhibitions where fast pitch softball pitchers have consistently embarassed MLB batters.

One personal story. At a work beer league softball game (mostly engineers and most not very athletic, at least not in your typical beefy softball kind of way), we were being hassled by a group of macho construction worker / longshoreman type guys who wanted our field. Finally they wanted to challenge us for the field. After much prodding, realizing they weren't going to go away, we agreed, provided that our pitcher could pitch anyway he (she) wanted. They foolishly agreed. Up to the mound steps Stacy, a former college softball picher at USC (IIRC) - 18 up, 18 down, only two not by strikeouts. Boy, it was a joy watching them be emarassed by a "girl".

a whole lot depends on what you're used to hitting...MLB hitters are used to swinging at baseballs being thrown from further away, in a different manner, and with different characteristics. they make a living learning exactly how to specifically hit in that kind of situation. then toss them into a situation where they're hitting a different ball thrown a different way from a different distance with the intention of being hard to hit, and it's not a big surprise they have trouble with it. give them time to adjust to it though and i'm pretty sure they'd start smacking things around pretty well
 

Macman

Registered User
May 15, 2004
3,447
408
Mr.Hunter74 said:
Is there any chance that these loud mouths can affect the negotiations negatively?? What is the chance that maybe some of this is all orchestrated and is a big stall tactic by the PA? Go in and negotiate get pretty close to a deal send it to the players who you know will turn it down and then go back to the Owners and say you will have to do better or were gonna be sitting for another year. After giving the owners a good feeling that the end is in sight take it away form them in hopes that therye were tempeted enought to crack. I doubt it but can help but wonder.

If BG thinks he's gonna get canned maybe he screws us all around for alittle while longer as he wont have anythign to lose.

I dont give this guy any respect for coming out and bashing his leadership after the fact. IMHO here is a guy trying tnot be to be held accountible for his role in this horrible even taht took place this winter. Why cant he just take respeonsibility for his actions and not try and blame others. I would give him respect if he said I chose to support the leaderships direction and I like so many others were wrong to do so I am sorry for that. Instead of trying to play the inocent and say "I was brainwashed" like it was out of his hands and he should not be held acountible for his support of the union leadership. But i am sorry i was brainwahsed.

Anyone ever see this guy speak on TV or the radio? He really is a rude ignorant jerk who would say anything to make himself feel or look better. Remember he makes and NHL living b/c of his ability to say things taht get under other players skin. He agitates players not only by being physical but also by being very talented with the his words. Loud mouth people are just as capable of communicating as others they just do so differently.

I think he is full of B.S when he says he feels bad for the fans. I dont hink he is sorry for this lockout at all but just sorry that they didn't win anything and he lost more money than he get out of it.

I bet there are a ton of fans out there just dying to forgive there hockey players once they apologies.

I don't know Avery's contract status but that might explain a lot. If he doesn't already have a contract, he might never get another one under a new CBA, and he realizes it. That might explain a lot of his bitterness and ass-kissing.
 
Last edited:

London Knights

Registered User
Jun 1, 2004
831
0
Mr.Hunter74 said:
Is there any chance that these loud mouths can affect the negotiations negatively?? What is the chance that maybe some of this is all orchestrated and is a big stall tactic by the PA? Go in and negotiate get pretty close to a deal send it to the players who you know will turn it down and then go back to the Owners and say you will have to do better or were gonna be sitting for another year. After giving the owners a good feeling that the end is in sight take it away form them in hopes that therye were tempeted enought to crack. I doubt it but can help but wonder.

If BG thinks he's gonna get canned maybe he screws us all around for alittle while longer as he wont have anythign to lose.

I dont give this guy any respect for coming out and bashing his leadership after the fact. IMHO here is a guy trying tnot be to be held accountible for his role in this horrible even taht took place this winter. Why cant he just take respeonsibility for his actions and not try and blame others. I would give him respect if he said I chose to support the leaderships direction and I like so many others were wrong to do so I am sorry for that. Instead of trying to play the inocent and say "I was brainwashed" like it was out of his hands and he should not be held acountible for his support of the union leadership. But i am sorry i was brainwahsed.

Anyone ever see this guy speak on TV or the radio? He really is a rude ignorant jerk who would say anything to make himself feel or look better. Remember he makes and NHL living b/c of his ability to say things taht get under other players skin. He agitates players not only by being physical but also by being very talented with the his words. Loud mouth people are just as capable of communicating as others they just do so differently.

I think he is full of B.S when he says he feels bad for the fans. I dont hink he is sorry for this lockout at all but just sorry that they didn't win anything and he lost more money than he get out of it.

I bet there are a ton of fans out there just dying to forgive there hockey players once they apologies.


I think things went beyond Bob's control when Linden, Saskin, and Gartner took over the negotating process.

If anything Bob will want to get the most of what's left for the players to try and maximize his severence package.
 

SedinFan*

Guest
Bob Goodenow screwed up many months ago when he stated that the NHLPA wouldn't ever take a cap, then having the players voice their opinion on the subject, such as Robert Esche, Bryan McCabe and others stating that the NHLPA would NEVER accept a cap...what happened? Goodenow screwed up and accepted the prospect of a cap based system.

That's where the turmoil started in the PA.
 

Pepper

Registered User
Aug 30, 2004
14,693
269
ScottyBowman said:
I'd rather get hit on the ice and have my feet slide than on grass where your feet are planted.

Would you rather hit your head to the ice wearing a hockey helmet or hit the grass wearing a football helmet?
 

Steve L*

Registered User
Jan 13, 2003
11,548
0
Southampton, England
Visit site
tantalum said:
So where does hitting a cricket ball fall? The few times I tried that it sure seemed a heck of a lot harder to do than to hit a baseball.
Im glad someone mentioned this, its a lot harder than baseball because the ball bounces off the ground, its legal to aim for the head and the ball can deviate yards from its original line.
 

Steve L*

Registered User
Jan 13, 2003
11,548
0
Southampton, England
Visit site
ColoradoHockeyFan said:
Avery has officially stiffed Leafs Lunch. Host now apologizing for Avery's absence. Apparently they've been trying to call him for quite a while now, but no answer. They had arranged the interview with him at around 10am this morning.
Perhaps they couldnt reach him because Goodenows goons gave him a concrete overcoat.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
It's really just sad.

I don't blame the players - for the most part they're not the most educated bunch, and they had every reason to trust in Goodenow.

I said it before - it was Goodenow that abused that trust by taking a strategy that couldn't win.

I don't think Goodenow is a dumb man, and I can't understand what he was possibly thinking. He let his ego get in the way, and tried to blackmail the owners into accepting something that wouldn't work....something that would have been bad for his own players in tehlong run anyways.

Just silly.

Goodenow better offer his resignation ASAP.

His is probably the worst performance by any union leader in the history of labour negotiations.
 

FlyersFan10*

Guest
zeke said:
It's really just sad.

I don't blame the players - for the most part they're not the most educated bunch, and they had every reason to trust in Goodenow.

I said it before - it was Goodenow that abused that trust by taking a strategy that couldn't win.

I don't think Goodenow is a dumb man, and I can't understand what he was possibly thinking. He let his ego get in the way, and tried to blackmail the owners into accepting something that wouldn't work....something that would have been bad for his own players in tehlong run anyways.

Just silly.

Goodenow better offer his resignation ASAP.

His is probably the worst performance by any union leader in the history of labour negotiations.


I don't think that there's really anyone to "blame" for this per say. If there's any blame, it's gotta go on Goodenow's shoulders for letting the union become as fractured as it has become. Had all the players remained in North America and had they had daily communication with the league, then there's no reason why a deal couldn't get done before now. The fact that it was months in between the cancellation of the season and before proposals were made was what baffled me. Add to it Goodenow telling players to look for work overseas was bad, bad strategy at best.

Had everyone remained close, together, and more importantly, communicating, we wouldn't have seen what has become this ugly, ugly scar that is left on the face of hockey. Goodenow simply helped fracture his own union by telling people to go overseas and play and as far as I'm concerned, that was just planting the seeds for the union to disintegrate. The league saw that opening and attacked it. That was smart on the league's part and they helped divide that fracture.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->