Scouting Post

Colt.45Orr

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Great read from our old friend, Kirk.

When DeBrusk was drafted I wrote some of the same things about him. Very little (overall) progress in his time in Red Deere despite getting older and filling out etc. Then he would impress the heck out of you one game and you could see so much skill/potential. If he platued in the WHL, I wouldn't bet $ on him finding consistency now either.
 
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BlackFrancis

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I have enjoyed reading Kirk's write ups for a long time, but the only hope Cameron Hughes has of making it to the NHL is if the rosters of Boston and Providence are ravaged by Covid.

And I'm not sure if he's channeling October horror when he states, "if you’re not crazy about Lauzon being up to the task (of replacing Brandon Carlo), don’t forget Connor Clifton"
 

LouJersey

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Fantastic article. Agree 1000% about Carlo and JDB being overrated, I would try to deal Rask and get MAF here for a couple years to bridge to Swayman... Make VGK pick up 2 mil per on his contract.
 
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Don Cherry

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Fantastic article. Agree 1000% about Carlo and JDB being overrated, I would try to deal Rask and get MAF here for a couple years to bridge to Swayman... Make VGK pick up 2 mil per on his contract.
I said the same thing about Carlo but was quickly told how great, young and improving he is and that he shouldnt be in trade talks. Guys like him don't come around often, I was also told.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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Overrated/underrated is such useless terminology... you arent saying are they good or bad. You just are saying your own opinion is differnt than the majority

What is the majority opinion on carlo? Do most admit he appears to have very little offense? He doesnt seem to have a mean bone. Are we saying hes not one of the top 3-5 young shutdown second pair guys now? Are many of us saying he will be better than a chris tanev?

Does that mean we overrate him?

A couple years ago people said they wouldnt trade him straight up for landeskog... but to me, that meant these people underrated landeskog. Im not sure i ever heard anyone say carlo is better than mcavoy... or a top pair guy...

Debrusk? Does anyone complain hes not on the pp? Not the top line? Does anyone say he is a lock for 30 goals?

I say people underrate debrusk. Without pp time or first line ozone starts hes averaging over 20 goals on his elc. Every other top 15 pick with proven 20 goal capability gets over 5 mill on second contract

Now i find him inconsistent... i might not want to make him my lead horse. But i dont hear many people overrating him

Maybe their expectations for a second line player are unrealistic?

Hughes might be underrated because hes unknown.

I think marc andre fleury is tremendously iver rated. Here is a guy who lost his starter job to his backup 3 out of the last 4 years and people thjnk hes some sort of god?

Marchand is underrated... a top 5 scorer in nhl for last 4 years and media people still think its ok doing a hot take that hes more than just a pest

Its rare when the term underrated/overrated mean anything other than just patting ourselves on the back saying only we know a players true value
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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I said the same thing about Carlo but was quickly told how great, young and improving he is and that he shouldnt be in trade talks. Guys like him don't come around often, I was also told.

Isnt that true... ive been a bruin fan 45 years... how many kids better than carlo did we develop?

Bourque
Mcavoy
Hamilton
Mccrimmond
Wesley?
Is there anyone else?
Kluzak?
Mclaren?

Is that 7 homegrown dmen better than carlo in 45 years?

Am i missing someone?

Seems to me guys this good dont come around often... and most dmen his age improve some... and we shouldnt trade him unless we are getting back value

Hes not an untouchable franchise player... we traded brad mccrimmond after all... let glen wesley leave. Hamilton of course

Weve traded young home grown dmen before but you got to make sure you get value

I am sure nashville regrets jones for johansson

Carlo will never be seth jones though
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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Looking back how often we used a first round pick to get a top 3 stud dman... how often we failed

Matt lashoff
Lars jonnson
Mark stuart
Johnathon aitkens
Jacob zobril
Shannon morrison
Sean brown
Nick boynton

With our last 11 first round picks used on dmen we got
Mcavoy
Hanilton
Mclaren
As our only 3 legit top pairing guys
Maybe vaikanainen will make it too

But its not easy finding a kid dman better than carlo even in the first round
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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For 13th foward i think we are all overlooking karson kuhlman... kid is loaded with character and work ethic... but is the talent there to hold down a steady top 4 line spot?

Give him this year in ahl to improve his scoring but next year i say the lindholm job is his to lose
 
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BruinsNetwork

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Very good read ,Hughes should be in the conversation for the 13th forward, he's cheap, plays well in all 3 zones and can play anywhere on any line,something that Lindholm can't do

Cameron Hughes is more scrappy than Nordstrom, Wagner, Lindholm and probably even Kuraly. Unfortunately, he’s someone who lacks the size, strength and power of those players.

It’s not something he doesn’t overcome though. He’s still an ultra-talented player who can dangle and deke anywhere on the ice. He doesn’t always pull them off, but he has the instincts and chip on his shoulder to try them and that’s encouraging.

Big fan and would love see him get some reps in the NHL. Eric knows this, though.
 

Fenian24

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I would also resign Gaunce, he was having a nice season until McCarron laid him out.

Has some grit, decent skill and size and could join the glut of 4th line candidates but with a lower cap hit than the Wagner's, Lindholm's, etc.
 

mflo77

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always a bonus getting some insight from kirk. but disagree with him completely when it comes to Carlo. He is what he is. He is a shut down, mobile right shot dman, that seems to be gold around the NHL. Yes, Carlo is very limited offensively. I would never expect him to score 10-15 goals, and put up 35 pts. a dman of Carlo's calibre will take 4-5 million per to keep around. That is the going price for a second pair dman. He is what he is, and im ok with that.
 

Don Cherry

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I've never read an article that I agree with more than this one. Players like Debrusk and Carlo are nothing special. They're just complimentary players and far from game-changers. We could use them both to address other needs such as 2nd line RW.
 
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Gonzothe7thDman

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Isnt that true... ive been a bruin fan 45 years... how many kids better than carlo did we develop?

Bourque
Mcavoy
Hamilton
Mccrimmond
Wesley?
Is there anyone else?
Kluzak?
Mclaren?

Is that 7 homegrown dmen better than carlo in 45 years?

Am i missing someone?

Seems to me guys this good dont come around often... and most dmen his age improve some... and we shouldnt trade him unless we are getting back value

Hes not an untouchable franchise player... we traded brad mccrimmond after all... let glen wesley leave. Hamilton of course

Weve traded young home grown dmen before but you got to make sure you get value

I am sure nashville regrets jones for johansson

Carlo will never be seth jones though

Speaking of Nashville Carlo probably wouldn't break the top 5 Dmen they've ever drafted since the franchises inception.

It says more about the Bruins doing a terrible job drafting and developing dman than it does about how valuable Carlo is.
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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Speaking of Nashville Carlo probably wouldn't break the top 5 Dmen they've every drafted since the franchises inception.

It says more about the Bruins doing a terrible job drafting and developing dman than it does about how valuable Carlo is.

Nashville is one team

Name a second team?

Thats like saying the hulk is a wimp because superman is stronger
 

Gonzothe7thDman

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Well you did name a second team there, but no way is Carlo only a third pairing guy on that squad.

Karlsson-Redden(drafted elsewhere but was completely developed by Ott)
Chabot-Philips
Meszaros-Volchenkov

Tempted to put Chara there since he developed into the dman we saw in Boston but he did play a couple seasons with the isle.

But I don't see Carlo breaking that top 6.
 

Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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gonzo managed to get me upset taking another swipe at the bruins in an early response to my post about how often we found a guy better than carlo in my lifetime... so im going to take the bruins out of the equation and just look at all 31 teams.
there were 46 dmen drafted in the first round between 2011-2015. I use these years to give us a 5 year sample size and to include only guys drafted in Carlo's draft year or before. Let's see how many we would trade 1-for-1

starting in 2015 working back
5 Noah Hanifin... i would
7 ivan provorov... i would
8 zach werenski... i would
13 jacob zboril
18 tomas chabot... i would
26 noah juulsen
27 jacob larsson
29 gabriel carlsson
in 2015 only 4 of the 9 first round picks are better than carlo

1 aaron ekblad... yes
7 hayden fleury
14 julius honka
17 travis sandheim
19 tony deangelo... maybe
in 2014 possibly 2 of the 5 first round picks might be better

4 seth jones... yes
7 darnell nurse... i think so
8 rasmus ristotainen
11 samuel morin
13 josh morrissey... he seems very good
15 ryan pulock... different type but maybe
16 nikita zardov
18 mirco mueller
26 shea theodore... is a stud
2013 gave us 5 out of 9 guys that most would take ahead of carlo

2 ryan murray
4 griffen reinhart
5 morgan reilly... had one outstanding season
6 hampus lindholm.. good reputation
7 matt dumba... produces offense
8 derrick pouliout
9 jacob trouba... i like him
10 slater koekkoek
15 cody ceci
22 olli maata
23 mike matheson
25 jodan schmultz
28 brady skjei
for 2012 i would only take 4 of these 13 guys ahead of carlo

4 adam larsson
9 dougie hamilton... give the devil his due
10 jonas brodin... hes very well though of
11 duncan siemens
12 ryan murphy
14 jamie oleksiak
17 nathan beaulieu
19 oscar klefbom... when he stays healthy hes good
20 connor murphy
23 joe morrow
25 stuart percy
3 of 11 first round picks in 2011 were better than carlo

in summary picking a dman in the first round gives you an 18 out of 46 chance to get someone better than Brandon Carlo. if you eliminate guys taken in the top 5 the odds of getting someone better than carlo are just 13 out of 39... around 33%

carlo wasnt even taken in the first round... let alone the top 5

and the odds of finding someone better than him in the second round is much much much much lower

this isnt about boston not being able to draft... this is simple reality of how difficult it is to find a guy like carlo in the draft.

around 33% if you are drafting between pick 6 and 31
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

Bruin fan since 1975
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Karlsson-Redden(drafted elsewhere but was completely developed by Ott)
Chabot-Philips
Meszaros-Volchenkov

Tempted to put Chara there since he developed into the dman we saw in Boston but he did play a couple seasons with the isle.

But I don't see Carlo breaking that top 6.

so im saying that boston managed to draft a hand ful of guys better than carlo in 45 years... you say bostons drafting sucks... you mention Nashville has a who shitload of guys better...

I didnt even really bother to challange you because why? but then I asked for another team that produces hall of fame dmen at a drop of the hat and this is your best example??? really???

for what its worth carlo wouldnt make bostons top 6 drafted dmen either

bourque/hamilton
McAvoy/mccrimmond
Wesley/kluzak

are better than that group you mention out of ottawa

I dont mind if you say Nashville is well known for producing dmen but lets look at their real numbers

-starting in 1998 they got kartis skrastins
-2001 they got dan hamhuis
-2003 they got ryan suter
-and in 2003 they got shea weber
-it wasnt until 2008 they got roman josi
-2009 was ryan ellis
-and then mattias ekholm
-2013 was seth jones
-and their last one was samuel girard in 2016

so this wonderful team drafting dmen has just 3 in th las 11 years and 9 guys in total...
does anyone even count kartis skrastins? or dan hamhuis??? is samuel girard better than carlo???
in 21 years the great nashville team has really drafted 6 guys that i would say are inarguably better than carlo

they also drafted
johnathon blum first round
dante fabbro first round
kevin klein second round
andrew hutchinson second round
four swings and misses

i wish you werent so damn eager to put boston down every chance you get without doing a bit of research to get a realistic view of the real world first
 

Gonzothe7thDman

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so im saying that boston managed to draft a hand ful of guys better than carlo in 45 years... you say bostons drafting sucks... you mention Nashville has a who shitload of guys better...

I didnt even really bother to challange you because why? but then I asked for another team that produces hall of fame dmen at a drop of the hat and this is your best example??? really???

for what its worth carlo wouldnt make bostons top 6 drafted dmen either

bourque/hamilton
McAvoy/mccrimmond
Wesley/kluzak

are better than that group you mention out of ottawa

I dont mind if you say Nashville is well known for producing dmen but lets look at their real numbers

-starting in 1998 they got kartis skrastins
-2001 they got dan hamhuis
-2003 they got ryan suter
-and in 2003 they got shea weber
-it wasnt until 2008 they got roman josi
-2009 was ryan ellis
-and then mattias ekholm
-2013 was seth jones
-and their last one was samuel girard in 2016

so this wonderful team drafting dmen has just 3 in th las 11 years and 9 guys in total...
does anyone even count kartis skrastins? or dan hamhuis??? is samuel girard better than carlo???
in 21 years the great nashville team has really drafted 6 guys that i would say are inarguably better than carlo

they also drafted
johnathon blum first round
dante fabbro first round
kevin klein second round
andrew hutchinson second round
four swings and misses

i wish you werent so damn eager to put boston down every chance you get without doing a bit of research to get a realistic view of the real world first

Since 2003 you could say Nashville drafted and developed 4 Dmen better than anyone Boston has picked in that time frame.


I don't care about players picked by the Bruins before I was born.

The point is that Boston until recently has been pretty bad at drafting and developing their own Dmen. So just because Carlo is one of our "hits" doesn't mean we undervalue him by wanting to move him in a package to upgrade elsewhere.
 
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