Scott Niedermayer's career

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Devils Dominion

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I'm trying hard not to be a homer, but I really think Leetch gets a raw deal when ranking defenseman.

He played on a horrible Rangers team for a long time and was only one of the few specks of gold on an otherwise unpolished turd. And I really think that that skews the view of him all-time. One of the best two-way guys around (and one who, for some reason, is bashed on defense a lot when in all reality he was about as steady as they come for an offensively geared player in his own zone).

If he had played on well constructed and even just decent teams, outside fo the few successful years the Rangers enjoyed in the early to mid 90s, he'd be ranked a lot higher than he's seen.


Nieds has proven that he is a better all-around player than Leetch ever was.
Leetch was all-offense and could not lead his team to the playoffs for about 6 seasons in a row. Nieds hands down better than Leetch.
 

Sonny Lamateena

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Nieds has proven that he is a better all-around player than Leetch ever was.
Leetch was all-offense and could not lead his team to the playoffs for about 6 seasons in a row. Nieds hands down better than Leetch.

Obviously you've never seen Leetch play. Brian Leetch was an elite defensemen in both ends. He was a great penalty killer and was always on the ice to protect a 1 goal lead. He threw a great hip check and was just as physical as Niedermayer. Offensively its not even close, Leetch was one of the greatest offensive defensemen to ever play. Niedermayer 11 points in 21 games, +2 definitely the weakest Conn Smythe Trophy wins i've ever seen.
 

Stephen

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I know a lot of Devils fans are bitter, as well they should be because it hurts seeing him hoist the cup wearing another logo. But once a Devil, always a Devil even if he's a Duck is what I say. Anaheim can thank Lou Lamoriello for this, because without Brian Burke (a Lou Lamoriello protege) they wouldn't have gone hard after Niedermayer (a Lou Lamoriello draft pick and developed by the team) and without Scott the Ducks wouldn't have won that Stanley Cup because he was the only guy on the team to win one. So cheers to Scott Niedermayer, the greatest winner in NHL history.

You might even call the Ducks cup the Devils' cup :shakehead.

The greatest winner? I think that's a bit of a stretch.
 

VanIslander

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Nieds has proven that he is a better all-around player than Leetch ever was.
Leetch was all-offense and could not lead his team to the playoffs for about 6 seasons in a row. Nieds hands down better than Leetch.
your username is so boastful about the Devils, and the Jersey-NY rivalry is so palpable, I just chalk up your statement to harmless mindless chest-thumping pride, the sort of thing said with a swill in one hand, a fist in the other, from the upper stands of a Devils home game.
 

bert

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OMFG no... But I guess you'll be the one picking him the first round of the next all-time draft.

Chris Pronger was better than Scott Niedermayer this postseason but his suspensions (like that of any Duck save perhaps Pahlsson) didn't make a dang bit of difference in the outcome of the defensive-strategied Ducks' game plan. That's why Chris didn't get the Conn Smythe, because his suspensions proved he wasn't totally necessary. The fact is, if Scott had been suspended, the Ducks would have kept on winning as well.

Scott shouldn't be a stitch higher in the history of hockey hierarchy as a result of being given the Conn Smythe: shouldn't be any higher whatsoever.

Among the Top-30 hockey players of all time? How long have you held that view?

Top 50? Maaaayyyyybe. Top-100 sure.

No way was Pronger better. Not a chance, there is alot more to playing defense then scoring points. Niedermayer is the best defensive defenseman in the nhl and is arguably the best offensive guy too.

He controls the play when he is on the ice even if he doesnt have the puck, his gap control forces players to do things that they dont want to do and they dont even know they are doing it. He reads and anticipates the play so well combined with the best forwards to backwards skating I have ever seen. He is seemingly everywhere on the ice.

I was so glad when he won the conn smythe the was the most important player on that team by far.

Everyone goes on and on about how Burke is a genious, he also got very lucky. He inherited a team that had Rob Niedermayer thus giving him priority to the best player in the nhl Scott.
 

Ricelund

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#2 no doubt in my mind.
:biglaugh:

Maybe number two of this era, definitely not of all-time.

Did you watch the Detroit series? Niedermayer got beaten clean a few times, by a rookie (Filppula) two or three times. Lidstrom is still the best in the league. Please tell me you're not serious when you say Scott is the best player in the league. He looked pretty average in the Detroit series, IMO. Lidstrom finished the playoffs with 18 points in 18 games, Niedermayer 11 in 21. I saw Lidstrom get cleanly beaten maybe once in the playoffs, by Iginla in the first round. I saw Niedermayer get beaten more than once in one game.
 

Randall Graves*

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No way was Pronger better. Not a chance, there is alot more to playing defense then scoring points. Niedermayer is the best defensive defenseman in the nhl and is arguably the best offensive guy too.

He controls the play when he is on the ice even if he doesnt have the puck, his gap control forces players to do things that they dont want to do and they dont even know they are doing it. He reads and anticipates the play so well combined with the best forwards to backwards skating I have ever seen. He is seemingly everywhere on the ice.

I was so glad when he won the conn smythe the was the most important player on that team by far.

Everyone goes on and on about how Burke is a genious, he also got very lucky. He inherited a team that had Rob Niedermayer thus giving him priority to the best player in the nhl Scott.
I thought that play in game 4 where he backhanded the puck across the center of the ice showed how great his on ice awareness is, he could not go anywhere else with the puck so all he does is take a quick peak over his shoulder and makes a perfect pass to Sean O'Donnell, I think his play during the two Pronger suspensions is why he won the Smythe.
 

Randall Graves*

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:biglaugh:

Maybe number two of this era, definitely not of all-time.

Did you watch the Detroit series? Niedermayer got beaten clean a few times, by a rookie (Filppula) two or three times. Lidstrom is still the best in the league. Please tell me you're not serious when you say Scott is the best player in the league. He looked pretty average in the Detroit series, IMO. Lidstrom finished the playoffs with 18 points in 18 games, Niedermayer 11 in 21. I saw Lidstrom get cleanly beaten maybe once in the playoffs, by Iginla in the first round. I saw Niedermayer get beaten more than once in one game.
He was playing on one foot, and that team was built around the two defensemen so how on earth could they even win the cup since so many of you seemed to think he played terrible? First three rounds I agree he was not at his best but hardly horrible and in the big games he was the best player so that kind of redeems him does it not?
 

Ricelund

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He was playing on one foot, and that team was built around the two defensemen so how on earth could they even win the cup since so many of you seemed to think he played terrible? First three rounds I agree he was not at his best but hardly horrible and in the big games he was the best player so that kind of redeems him does it not?
Where did I ever mention the words "horrible" or "terrible"?

When I saw the Big 3 side by side in the Detroit-Anaheim series, I thought it was pretty clear that Lidstrom is the best of them.
 

Hunter Gathers

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Nieds has proven that he is a better all-around player than Leetch ever was.
Leetch was all-offense and could not lead his team to the playoffs for about 6 seasons in a row. Nieds hands down better than Leetch.

That's one of the stupidest, most ignorant things one could say. You obviously never watched a game of Leetch's if you think that he was "all-offense".

Absolutely clueless comment. :shakehead
 

Hunter Gathers

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your username is so boastful about the Devils, and the Jersey-NY rivalry is so palpable, I just chalk up your statement to harmless mindless chest-thumping pride, the sort of thing said with a swill in one hand, a fist in the other, from the upper stands of a Devils home game.

Don't you find it incredible some of the things people say on here?

Some **** that is said is just mind boggling.
 

Dr.Huxtable*

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That's the way I see it, too. Chelios had the longevity and that puts him a VERY VERY small step above Leetch in my book.

Leetch is the 2nd best American born player of all-time.

What about Modano?

Leetch was a fantastic defenseman but let's not get crazy by calling him a great defensive player. He wasn't, he was good. This is a guy who played in 1205 games and had 1028 points which is fantastic but he was only a +25. In the playoffs he was a minus 5 out of 7 years with the Rangers. I don't want to make a big deal out of +/- but I think when a guy has that many points and he's only a +25 career says something.

Here are some great dmen of my time and their numbers:

Bourque played in 1612 games and was +528

Chelios played in 1547 games and is +340

Stevens played in 1635 games and was +393

Lidstrom played in 1176 games and is +338

Niedermayer played in 1053 games and is +186
 

Hunter Gathers

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What about Modano?

Leetch was a fantastic defenseman but let's not get crazy by calling him a great defensive player. He wasn't, he was good. This is a guy who played in 1205 games and had 1028 points which is fantastic but he was only a +25. In the playoffs he was a minus 5 out of 7 years with the Rangers. I don't want to make a big deal out of +/- but I think when a guy has that many points and he's only a +25 career says something.


Was only good on defense?

Leetch was a very good two-way player. He was constantly one of the Rangers best PKers. He wasn't a pounding defenseman like a Stevens. He was the guy who'd block shots or simply take the puck right off your stick with his. A silent defender who, because he wasn't a TOP TIER shut-down defenseman like a Stevens, is damned for no real reason by people like you who base his performance off of a +/- stat (which is absolutely laughable in itself!) for goodness sake!

And the funniest thing in your "comparison" is that you took players like Lidstrom, Niedermayer, and Stevens who were all always on great teams!

Leetch was on some of the WORST, most DISGRACEFUL teams ever assembled for a number of years (which is why a lot of people believe he is so underrated)!

The +/- suggests that he was on an awful team! It's a TEAM STAT there, buddy yet you somehow try to use it to damn a single guy. Hysterical. You are one of the most biased guys on the boards and have had arguments with me in the past, so it's already CLEAR where you are with your argument.

In regards to Modano, he's a great player and a HOFer but he's definitely not in the "big 3" with for American players. Chelios, Leetch and LaFontaine are all a step above Modano (and I love Mike -- one of my all-time favorites).
 
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Hunter Gathers

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You're overlooking your own bias.

I already said that I'm a bit biased in it and I admitted it.

But to say that Leetch was only a good defensive player is just stupid and ignorant. And to back it up based on a +/- stat when he was on some of the most disgraceful Rangers teams ever assembled just goes to show you that it's just some guy posting with an axe to grind since he hates the Rangers and everything about them.

Sorry, there's no other way to put it.

For reference on just how good he was on defense when he was needed to be, maybe the good Doctor should watch the 1994 playoffs.

A 2 time Norris winner and a 1 time Conn Smythe winner is not bad on defense.

No one is claiming he was the best in his own zone. Not one person has said that. But he was a very, very good player in his own zone and the only two people to say otherwise so far have been Devils fans.

Take that for what it's worth.
 
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norrisnick

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I already said that I'm a bit biased in it and I admitted it.

But to say that Leetch was not a good defensive player is just stupid and ignorant. And to back it up based on a +/- stat when he was on some of the most disgraceful Rangers teams ever assembled just goes to show you that it's just some guy posting with an axe to grind since he hates the Rangers and everything about them.

Sorry, there's no other way to put it.

For reference on just how good he was on defense when he was needed to be, maybe the good Doctor should watch the 1994 playoffs.

A 2 time Norris winner and a 1 time Conn Smythe winner is not bad on defense.

No one is claiming he was the best in his own zone. Not one person has said that. But he was a very, very good player in his own zone and the only two people to say otherwise so far have been Devils fans.

Take that for what it's worth.


Read it again. He didn't say Leetch wasn't good defensively. He said he wasn't great defensively, but was good.


As for the bold I present one Paul Coffey. He's got three to his credit and I'd be loathe to state he was anything above average defensively.
 

Hunter Gathers

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Read it again. He didn't say Leetch wasn't good defensively. He said he wasn't great defensively, but was good.


As for the bold I present one Paul Coffey. He's got three to his credit and I'd be loathe to state he was anything above average defensively.

Yes, and backed it up on +/- which is one of the funniest things to read around here.

Leetch was great defensively. He was not ELITE, but he was a great defensive player. Not only because he was able to keep the puck in the zone but because he had a great 1st pass and was one of the steadiest defenseman on the Rangers fans have ever seen.

I would definitely call him a great defensive player. He was the ONLY semblance of a defensive player when the Rangers were in their awful years.

I mean, look at the rosters!

Also, Coffey's offense was a step above Leetch's, IMO. That really enabled him to play the "best defense is a good offense" type of game and I think that, again, he gets unfairly bashed for his defense which while worse than Leetch's was nowhere near as bad as a guy like Phil Housley's.
 

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