Confirmed with Link: Scott Laughton new contract 5 x $3M

[Ironmanrulez]

Laughton is a useful player, underrated by some but:

1- if he really wanted to be a flyer, trade him for assets and sign him as a Ufa

2- flyers have a lot of talented forwards, Laughton is a luxury, not an explicit need

3- there are a lot of forward prospects that in a good organization would be trusted to fill his role. Too bad the flyer's management through two cycles are scared p***yes.

4- you just know even if his play has declined in later years, Laughton will be overused by whatever old school coach they bring in next

great post!

I really like Laughton from day one. I wanted him to be resigned and couldnt understand why a lot of peoples i respect very highly wanted him to be traded or not resigned. I thought he would get a 2per for 2 years contract to stay here. Especially when he want to be here and dont test the free market.

If i would have know he will be that expensive i would have let him go!

Laugthon is replaceable with players you draft every year. You need to trade players from time to time to restock draft picks, to get the pipeline going with new talents. To create roster spots for young players and so on. With his demand of money he would have been the perfect candidate to be worthfull for us to be traded.

Now we have a players costing to much who is blocking a roster spot while we have some players in the system who should be equally good. We havent a draft pick gernerated with him.

And his usage will be another problem!

 

[flyers0909]

You’re better than this, Tri. I can’t fathom why you want to die on this hill.

Laughton had 1 monster 5v5/ES scoring season you’re using every time you throw out these numbers. One shortened season to skew it. No one ever said it wasn’t a great scoring season. I certainly didn’t — I’ve praised his scoring ability. Why should Giroux — or any player — have to perennially outscore Laughton’s single outlier season? He was 26th in the league in 5v5 points/60 ahead of many truly elite players.

This season he’s fallen back in line with his middle 6 scoring career averages. To be fair, his play driving impact has returned to neutral from drag, which also falls in line with his career (that’s a positive). This all seemed predictable, unless you thought Laughton was the best 5v5 shooter in the league (to match his league best shooting %) and a dominant offensive talent. It appears some people implicitly did because they keep bringing up that small sample as proof of....what I don’t know.

But since you keep bringing up Giroux, that career and statistical outlier season scoring by Laughton roughly matches or is bested by a past prime Giroux in 3 of his last 4 seasons. And for the record: Laughton is generally used as a top 6 forward with top 6 forwards, so let’s portray his usage and expectations with full context, now and going forward.

Meant to post something like this yesterday in the GDT, but you said it way better than I would have haha.

 

[deadhead]

You’re better than this, Tri. I can’t fathom why you want to die on this hill.

Laughton had 1 monster 5v5/ES scoring season you’re using every time you throw out these numbers. One shortened season to skew it. No one ever said it wasn’t a great scoring season. I certainly didn’t — I’ve praised his scoring ability. Why should Giroux — or any player — have to perennially outscore Laughton’s single outlier season? He was 26th in the league in 5v5 points/60 ahead of many truly elite players.

This season he’s fallen back in line with his middle 6 scoring career averages. To be fair, his play driving impact has returned to neutral from drag, which also falls in line with his career (that’s a positive). This all seemed predictable, unless you thought Laughton was the best 5v5 shooter in the league (to match his league best shooting %) and a dominant offensive talent. It appears some people implicitly did because they keep bringing up that small sample as proof of....what I don’t know.

But since you keep bringing up Giroux, that career and statistical outlier season scoring by Laughton roughly matches or is bested by a past prime Giroux in 3 of his last 4 seasons. And for the record: Laughton is generally used as a top 6 forward with top 6 forwards, so let’s portray his usage and expectations with full context, now and going forward.

Laughton's ES minutes the last three years (over which he's averaged 33 ES points per 82 games, adjusting for Sh%):
Couts 92 minutes
Giroux 122 minutes
Weise 122 minutes
Lindblom 167 minutes
Pitlick 214 minutes
NAK 226 minutes
Voracek 246 minutes
Simmonds 282 minutes
Farabee 315 minutes
Patrick 346 minutes
TK 364 minutes
JVR 348 minutes
Hayes 481 minutes
Raffl 491 minutes

This season:
Couts 7
Giroux 45
Voracek 58
Patrick 69
Lindblom 83
JVR 90
Raffl 114
TK 124
NAK 130
Farabee 130
Hayes 197

 

[Beef Invictus]

@Tripod if you had to choose between keeping Laughton or Giroux, who are you keeping

 

[BritainStix]

@Tripod if you had to choose between keeping Laughton or Giroux, who are you keeping

Now who is being disingenuous.....

 

[TCTC]

Why do people even have to justify Laughton's production? It's pathetic. Some people seem to be actively rooting against our players. They're probably enjoying his current pointless streak.

 

[Starat327]

Oh, the sweet, sweet irony.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Now who is being disingenuous.....

Do you see the comparisons he's making?

 

[BritainStix]

Do you see the comparisons he's making?

Explain to me why it's not a valid comparison.

 

[Starat327]

"Despite having the best defensive metrics on the team, Ghost is overpaid and doesn't produce enough."

" why does Scott rod have to justify his production and contract?!?!"

 

[Beef Invictus]

Explain to me why it's not a valid comparison.

Because Giroux is one of the greatest players in franchise history and one of the best leaguewide over the last decade, and Laughton is a bottom six player?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Why do people even have to justify Laughton's production? It's pathetic. Some people seem to be actively rooting against our players. They're probably enjoying his current pointless streak.

 

[BritainStix]

Because Giroux is one of the greatest players in franchise history and one of the best leaguewide over the last decade, and Laughton is a bottom six player?

I mean, nice pep talk, but Tri is clearly comparing our star player making 8+ million a year producing very similar stats at even strength to a "bottom 6" player.

He provided clear stats showing this. Regardless of his unsustainable levels, he did it over an entire season on the same team, with lesser line mates.

He also out-produced Giroux heavily in the playoff games.

He makes a valid point and is met with ridicule. Seems like a totally ridiculous reaction and evidence of a fanboy culture amongst some posters with others alude too.

I've got no horse in the race. I just find the reaction baffling.

 

[Striiker]

Magua already covered this but I'll just touch on it again.

I mean, nice pep talk, but Tri is clearly comparing our star player making 8+ million a year producing very similar stats at even strength to a "bottom 6" player.

The only reason they were close is because it was a time period where two fluke things lines up. Laughton was literally the luckiest scorer in the league and Giroux was simultaneously very unlucky with assists. Obviously their play were nowhere near equal, even if the end results coincidentally were. That's why the extra context is needed to see what it ended up that way.

He provided clear stats showing this. Regardless of his unsustainable levels, he did it over an entire season on the same team, with lesser line mates.

It wasn't over an entire season. It was a shortened season and then the very start of this one, totaling 70 games before he fell off the "regression to the mean" cliff. Which he's still currently fallllllllllllllllling from.

Although, even if it was a full year, a player can easily have unsustainably high scoring over 82 games. A perfect example would be when Giroux did so in 2017-2018. He had unsustainably high shooting (17.62%), although even then his shooting was still not even as high as Laughton's was over the sample size we're looking at (20.62%).

He also out-produced Giroux heavily in the playoff games.

Huh?

In the 2019-2020 playoffs Giroux had 8 points and Laughton had 4.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant?

 

[BritainStix]

Ha, I read the wrong line. Laughts had 9 points to Giroux's 8. Those qualifying games count as playoff games.

 

[deadhead]

Ha, I read the wrong line. Laughts had 9 points to Giroux's 8. Those qualifying games count as playoff games.

Not really.

But Laughton, even after adjusting for his unsustainable shooting % last year, has averaged 33 ES points in 82 games over a 3 year period - that's about as reliable a sample as you can get, so his scoring is not a fluke. He's not a great play driver, which is why he's a bottom six player. But he's on 1st pair PK, which should be as valuable as being on PP1 (mirror images).

His contract is a bargain looking at comparables. The out years are low risk b/c he'd be easy to bury or trade with miminum money retained.

There should be nothing controversial about an under market contract to a 26 year old forward who was a former #20 pick who has worked hard to improve his game, who is a top forechecker on a team lacking physical players, one of the faster skaters and a good shooter.

 

[Jettany]

Ha, I read the wrong line. Laughts had 9 points to Giroux's 8. Those qualifying games count as playoff games.

Ha, I read the wrong line. Laughts had 9 points to Giroux's 8. Those qualifying games count as playoff games.

They do. The “disingenuous” squad at it again. If g had points in those game, trust me, they would have counted.

 

[Beef Invictus]

No, we have never counted those round robin games when discussing last year's playoffs.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

No, we have never counted those round robin games when discussing last year's playoffs.

Also, who gives a shit? It's almost like evaluation needs more than raw point totals.

 

[kudymen]

This reminds me of that John Oliver quote (or was it Colbert?): "you know how to recognize when someone is lying or making stuff up? They keep saying 'trust me'"

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Signing Scott Laughton for five years is like casting Gerard Butler in a movie. You are giving up before you even start.

 

[Hanover Fist]

What’s disingenuous is even comparing Laughton to Giroux. Actually it’s downright stupid

 

[Starat327]

Also, who gives a shit? It's almost like evaluation needs more than raw point totals.

Yeah, like leadership. And Laughton has it whilst Giroux doesn't.

 

[Tripod]

What’s disingenuous is even comparing Laughton to Giroux. Actually it’s downright stupid

I am sorry you are bothered by it. Sorry that pointing out that Giroux and Laughton have almost identical production the last 2 years at ES has caused so much animosity.

Not allowed to compared ES STATS due to S%. Then not allowed to compare ASSIST, either. The group has spoken.

Here, this will make you and certain others feel better: Laughton has better production than Hayes at ES the last 2 years. There....I left the beloved Giroux out of the equation and instead compared him to someone I am "allowed" to mention.

In the end, Laughton in EACH of the last 3 season's has paced for more than 30+ ES points. And in EACH of the last 3 season, he is 9th, 7th, and 7th in ES icetime....so 3rd line on average. He is a good 3rd liner who on average, gets 3rd line minutes with some time in the top 6....mostly with Hayes. When others play with Hayes, they have built in excuses for not producing but Laughton is not given that same "pass".

If Lindblom, Patrick and Frost did not have season's of "issues", then likely Fletch trades him and moves on. But given the years the 3 of them have had, can you blame any GM for not "betting" on them for next year? Hopefully all 3 of them rebound and go on to great top 6 careers. Because they were never just supposed to replace Laughton. They were hopefully replacing older top 6 players making 7+million/year.

 

[Jettany]

I am sorry you are bothered by it. Sorry that pointing out that Giroux and Laughton have almost identical production the last 2 years at ES has caused so much animosity.

Not allowed to compared ES STATS due to S%. Then not allowed to compare ASSIST, either. The group has spoken.

Here, this will make you and certain others feel better: Laughton has better production than Hayes at ES the last 2 years. There....I left the beloved Giroux out of the equation and instead compared him to someone I am "allowed" to mention.

In the end, Laughton in EACH of the last 3 season's has paced for more than 30+ ES points. And in EACH of the last 3 season, he is 9th, 7th, and 7th in ES icetime....so 3rd line on average. He is a good 3rd liner who on average, gets 3rd line minutes with some time in the top 6....mostly with Hayes. When others play with Hayes, they have built in excuses for not producing but Laughton is not given that same "pass".

If Lindblom, Patrick and Frost did not have season's of "issues", then likely Fletch trades him and moves on. But given the years the 3 of them have had, can you blame any GM for not "betting" on them for next year? Hopefully all 3 of them rebound and go on to great top 6 careers. Because they were never just supposed to replace Laughton. They were hopefully replacing older top 6 players making 7+million/year.

Well stated! Can’t compare assists...bad luck and usage.
I am not a stat guy per se, but I get out a kick out of the “stat” crowd only allowing you to use stats that they deem appropriate.