overpass
Registered User
- Jun 7, 2007
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The stats page at nhl.com allows you to view player scoring vs a particular opponent. So now it's very easy to look back at NHL history and find which players struggled or excelled against particular opponents.
I looked at some Original Six era players. With only 6 teams in the league, players could play multiple seasons' worth of games against each opponent in their career, so I was particularly interested in looking for trends from this era. I found 3 that stood out to me.
1. Bobby Hull struggled against the Montreal Canadiens
Regular season from 1959-60 to 1971-72
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[/TBODY]Regular season vs Canadiens from 1959-60 to 1971-72
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[/TBODY]From 1959-60 to 1971-72 -- his prime years in the NHL -- Bobby Hull was the premier offensive player in the league. But against the Montreal Canadiens, Hull only scored at 68% of his normal rate, and scored less than Stan Mikita, Gordie Howe, and Norm Ullman. The drop was even more pronounced at even strength, where Hull scored at a lower rate against the Habs than Frank Mahovlich and Johnny Bucyk. Hull only scored 70 points (39 G, 31 A) at evens against the Habs, and his teammate Stan Mikita scored 50% more (37 G, 69 A, 106 P) at even strength. Hull was also a significant minus against the Habs, despite having the highest overall plus-minus
Clearly the Habs put their top checkers against Hull's line when they played the Hawks, and they had a lot of success. Claude Provost and Rejean Houle both played RW against Hull with success, and the late @Canadiens1958 pointed out that Henri Richard was always the centre matched against Hull and Henri was responsible for much of their success shutting Hull down.
Hull was a plus player and was the leading scorer against every other Original Six team during this time period.
Bobby Hull, 1959-60 to 1971-72 regular season
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[/TBODY]Hull also scored under a point per game in the playoffs against the Habs, but unlike the regular season he was a plus player and outscored his teammate Mikita (who had 9 goals and 29 points).
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[/TBODY]2. Maurice Richard scored less against the Boston Bruins
Starting with the Dick Irvin years and omitting the WWII years. While he scored fewer points against the Red Wings, everyone scored fewer points against the Red Wings, who were the dominant regular season team of this time period.
Maurice Richard, 1945-46 to 1954-55 regular seasons
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[/TBODY]Vs Boston, 1945-46 to 1954-55 regular seasons
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[/TBODY]Maurice Richard was the leading point scorer of this time period, but against Boston he was #2 to Gordie Howe, and had similar points/game to Ted Lindsay, Max Bentley, and Ted Kennedy. By the way, it appears that the Chicago duo of Doug Bentley and Roy Conacher were lethal against Boston in the last half of the 40s, almost matching Richard's scoring totals in a little more than half the games played.
Should Woody Dumart and Milt Schmidt get the credit for limiting the Rocket?
Richard's scoring drought against Boston continued under coach Toe Blake in the late 50s Canadiens dynasty. Jean Beliveau and Bernie Geoffrion's line scored very well against Boston, but the Moore-Richard-Richard line did not. Claude Provost nearly matched the Rocket against the Bruins, and scored more at even strength.
Vs Boston, 1955-56 to 1959-60 regular seasons
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[/TBODY]Richard had more success against the Bruins in his playoff career. He scored 22 goals and 11 assists in 37 playoff games against them, including 5 GWG and 2 OT goals.
3. The Habs' Moore-Richard-Richard line was much better than the Olmstead-Beliveau-Geoffrion line against the Toronto Maple Leafs
1952-53 to 1959-60 vs Toronto Maple Leafs
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Beliveau was just above a point per game, but he led the Habs in scoring during these years with 1.17 points/game, so 1.04 was a drop for him. And his most frequent wingers Olmstead and Geoffrion really didn't score against the Leafs. Meanwhile, Dickie Moore, Henri Richard, and Maurice Richard were all above a point per game against the Leafs. Henri scored almost a point per game at even strength alone.
4. ...and Olmstead-Beliveau-Geoffrion were much better than Moore-Richard-Richard against the Rangers.
1952-53 to 1959-60 vs New York Rangers
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[/TBODY]Bernie Geoffrion scored literally twice as much against the Rangers as he did against the Leafs.
These are just some trends I found...feel free to post others, from the Original Six era or whenever.
I looked at some Original Six era players. With only 6 teams in the league, players could play multiple seasons' worth of games against each opponent in their career, so I was particularly interested in looking for trends from this era. I found 3 that stood out to me.
1. Bobby Hull struggled against the Montreal Canadiens
Regular season from 1959-60 to 1971-72
Player | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Bobby Hull | 896 | 573 | 483 | 1056 | 1.18 | 259 | 729 | 299 | 28 |
Stan Mikita | 918 | 374 | 616 | 990 | 1.08 | 251 | 666 | 311 | 13 |
Gordie Howe | 841 | 368 | 537 | 905 | 1.08 | 151 | 588 | 293 | 24 |
Frank Mahovlich | 899 | 421 | 423 | 844 | 0.94 | 208 | 610 | 224 | 10 |
Johnny Bucyk | 888 | 339 | 495 | 834 | 0.94 | -68 | 561 | 269 | 4 |
Player | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Bobby Hull | 142 | 61 | 53 | 114 | 0.80 | -33 | 70 | 39 | 5 |
Stan Mikita | 146 | 51 | 96 | 147 | 1.01 | 32 | 106 | 40 | 1 |
Gordie Howe | 142 | 50 | 78 | 128 | 0.90 | 2 | 86 | 38 | 4 |
Norm Ulllman | 148 | 56 | 73 | 129 | 0.87 | -17 | 87 | 39 | 3 |
Frank Mahovlich | 135 | 46 | 61 | 107 | 0.79 | 3 | 74 | 33 | 0 |
Johnny Bucyk | 139 | 42 | 67 | 109 | 0.78 | -45 | 77 | 32 | 0 |
Clearly the Habs put their top checkers against Hull's line when they played the Hawks, and they had a lot of success. Claude Provost and Rejean Houle both played RW against Hull with success, and the late @Canadiens1958 pointed out that Henri Richard was always the centre matched against Hull and Henri was responsible for much of their success shutting Hull down.
Hull was a plus player and was the leading scorer against every other Original Six team during this time period.
Bobby Hull, 1959-60 to 1971-72 regular season
Opponent | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Boston Bruins | 146 | 98 | 93 | 191 | 1.31 | 47 | 130 | 57 | 4 |
Detroit Red Wings | 140 | 92 | 75 | 167 | 1.19 | 46 | 121 | 43 | 3 |
Montreal Canadiens | 142 | 61 | 53 | 114 | 0.80 | -33 | 70 | 39 | 5 |
New York Rangers | 142 | 102 | 72 | 174 | 1.23 | 61 | 122 | 49 | 3 |
Toronto Maple Leafs | 144 | 90 | 71 | 161 | 1.12 | 9 | 107 | 50 | 4 |
Opponent | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Boston Bruins | 4 | 0 | 2 | 2 | 0.50 | -3 | 0 | 2 | 0 |
Detroit Red Wings | 35 | 25 | 25 | 50 | 1.43 | 8 | 33 | 17 | 0 |
Montreal Canadiens | 34 | 14 | 17 | 31 | 0.91 | 8 | 16 | 13 | 2 |
New York Rangers | 17 | 5 | 12 | 17 | 1.00 | 4 | 12 | 4 | 1 |
Toronto Maple Leafs | 12 | 8 | 6 | 14 | 1.17 | -1 | 9 | 5 | 0 |
Starting with the Dick Irvin years and omitting the WWII years. While he scored fewer points against the Red Wings, everyone scored fewer points against the Red Wings, who were the dominant regular season team of this time period.
Maurice Richard, 1945-46 to 1954-55 regular seasons
Opponent | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Boston Bruins | 124 | 52 | 45 | 97 | 0.78 | 74 | 20 | 3 | |
Chicago Black Hawks | 123 | 97 | 64 | 161 | 1.31 | 117 | 42 | 2 | |
Detroit Red Wings | 125 | 50 | 40 | 90 | 0.72 | 66 | 23 | 1 | |
New York Rangers | 121 | 74 | 53 | 127 | 1.05 | 93 | 34 | 0 | |
Toronto Maple Leafs | 119 | 62 | 51 | 113 | 0.95 | 80 | 33 | 0 |
Player | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Maurice Richard | 124 | 52 | 45 | 97 | 0.78 | 74 | 20 | 3 | |
Gordie Howe | 116 | 50 | 62 | 112 | 0.97 | 93 | 18 | 1 | |
Ted Lindsay | 118 | 45 | 48 | 93 | 0.79 | 73 | 20 | 0 | |
Max Bentley | 109 | 43 | 44 | 87 | 0.80 | 63 | 23 | 1 | |
Ted Kennedy | 113 | 37 | 47 | 84 | 0.74 | 59 | 23 | 2 | |
Doug Bentley | 67 | 28 | 58 | 86 | 1.28 | 72 | 14 | 0 | |
Roy Conacher | 66 | 45 | 36 | 81 | 1.23 | 67 | 14 | 0 |
Should Woody Dumart and Milt Schmidt get the credit for limiting the Rocket?
Richard's scoring drought against Boston continued under coach Toe Blake in the late 50s Canadiens dynasty. Jean Beliveau and Bernie Geoffrion's line scored very well against Boston, but the Moore-Richard-Richard line did not. Claude Provost nearly matched the Rocket against the Bruins, and scored more at even strength.
Vs Boston, 1955-56 to 1959-60 regular seasons
Player | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Maurice Richard | 53 | 19 | 21 | 40 | 0.75 | 23 | 17 | 0 | |
Jean Beliveau | 64 | 43 | 40 | 83 | 1.30 | 49 | 34 | 0 | |
Bernie Geoffrion | 52 | 25 | 40 | 65 | 1.25 | 44 | 20 | 1 | |
Henri Richard | 64 | 22 | 30 | 52 | 0.81 | 37 | 15 | 0 | |
Dickie Moore | 69 | 24 | 30 | 54 | 0.78 | 34 | 19 | 1 | |
Claude Provost | 67 | 26 | 21 | 47 | 0.70 | 42 | 1 | 4 |
3. The Habs' Moore-Richard-Richard line was much better than the Olmstead-Beliveau-Geoffrion line against the Toronto Maple Leafs
1952-53 to 1959-60 vs Toronto Maple Leafs
Player | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Dickie Moore | 88 | 39 | 63 | 102 | 1.16 | 64 | 38 | 0 | |
Henri Richard | 66 | 27 | 51 | 78 | 1.18 | 63 | 15 | 0 | |
Maurice Richard | 93 | 51 | 46 | 97 | 1.04 | 65 | 32 | 0 | |
Bert Olmstead | 80 | 11 | 33 | 44 | 0.55 | 29 | 15 | 0 | |
Jean Beliveau | 85 | 41 | 47 | 88 | 1.04 | 56 | 32 | 0 | |
Bernie Geoffrion | 92 | 32 | 36 | 58 | 0.63 | 39 | 29 | 0 |
Beliveau was just above a point per game, but he led the Habs in scoring during these years with 1.17 points/game, so 1.04 was a drop for him. And his most frequent wingers Olmstead and Geoffrion really didn't score against the Leafs. Meanwhile, Dickie Moore, Henri Richard, and Maurice Richard were all above a point per game against the Leafs. Henri scored almost a point per game at even strength alone.
4. ...and Olmstead-Beliveau-Geoffrion were much better than Moore-Richard-Richard against the Rangers.
1952-53 to 1959-60 vs New York Rangers
Player | GP | G | A | P | P/GP | +/- | EVP | PPP | SHP |
Dickie Moore | 87 | 23 | 47 | 70 | 0.80 | 50 | 20 | 0 | |
Henri Richard | 63 | 19 | 32 | 51 | 0.81 | 42 | 9 | 0 | |
Maurice Richard | 92 | 52 | 47 | 99 | 1.08 | 68 | 31 | 0 | |
Bert Olmstead | 82 | 18 | 57 | 75 | 0.91 | 45 | 30 | 0 | |
Jean Beliveau | 85 | 51 | 50 | 101 | 1.19 | 67 | 34 | 0 | |
Bernie Geoffrion | 89 | 62 | 60 | 122 | 1.37 | 82 | 40 | 0 |
These are just some trends I found...feel free to post others, from the Original Six era or whenever.
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