Scoring 30+points in one Playoff season.

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Dangler99*, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. Dangler99*

    Dangler99* Guest

    How high do would you rank this achievement and how much weight does it carry when deciding a HOF career?:)
     
  2. livewell68

    livewell68 Registered User

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    This one is stricky because it depends on the overall scoring, your linemates/teammates and it depends on how many games it takes to reach that number.

    Also you can be a sub PPG player for most of your career and then have a run in which you put up 30 + Pts, it does not mean you are a sure shot Hall of Fame due simply to this fact.

    The Crosby, Malkin debate should be brought up here.

    Malkin won the Conn Smythe and scored 36 Pts which is one of the highest totals ever.

    Crosby also scored 31 Pts but overall Malkin was that team's true MVP.
     
  3. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    Without any context it has no weight at all.
     
  4. Danny Briere for HoF.
     
  5. Dangler99*

    Dangler99* Guest

    12 Points in the final. That was sickening :handclap:
     
  6. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    ...no he wasn't.
     
  7. blogofmike

    blogofmike Registered User

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    It was even until the Finals, but Malkin's performance (2G, 6A, Even) was certainly better than Crosby's (1G, 2A, -3) against Detroit.

    Of course Max Talbot was the REAL MVP.:p:
     
  8. livewell68

    livewell68 Registered User

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    See the post below your's.

    It's the same argument with Leetch and Messier back in 1993-94.

    They were prett even until the Finals where Leetch played at a legendary level in that series and that is why he was given the Conn Smythe.

    Crosby and Malkin were pretty even until the Finals where it was Malkin's play that led them to the Cup.
     
  9. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Debatable. Both Malkin and Crosby were astounding. I doubt you could get 30 playoff points without being outstanding. Surely getting 30 points win the Cup or not and it is memorable and increases a chance at a HHOF induction.

    Of course it is how you get the points that is remembered as well as the number. Three Sens tied for the playoff scoring lead in 2007 with 22 points. One of them had a Smythe worthy performance in Alfredsson that I think will always be remembered. Spezza and Heatley had good playoffs and got 22 points but they were not good in the final and while it was a good playoffs for them it was not one that is legendary or that memorable. But 22 points is a far cry from 30 points.
     
  10. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    While the top checkers on Detroit faced Crosby. There is more to winning than points. Either could have won the Smythe. If your team only has one legitimate candidate for the Smythe you likely were not the Cup winning team. Even Gretzky failed to win the Smythe to Messier in Edmonton. Though he clearly could have won in each of the Cup winning seasons.
     
  11. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Only in points. Crosby was clearly his team's MVP at that point. More clearly than Malkin being MVP at the end, which was much more debatable.
     
  12. Unaffiliated

    Unaffiliated Registered User

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    Is it safe for me to assume that Sakic's 1996 run is distinctly above Malkin/Crosby?
     
  13. Dangler99*

    Dangler99* Guest

    Crosby was 21 when he score 30+points in the playoffs. Is he the youngest player to do that in History?
     
  14. blogofmike

    blogofmike Registered User

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    Yes. Yes he is.

    I would say so, but others may disagree.

    What did Crosby do better than Malkin? In 1984 you could argue that Messier made up for scoring fewer points than Gretzky with defense or penalty-killing or faceoffs, but through 24 playoff games, what would the argument be for Crosby?

    Neither Crosby or Malkin killed penalties.
    Malkin outscored Crosby 16-11 on the PP.
    Malkin led the NHL with giveaways (24), but also takeaways (27), which on balance is a little better than Crosby (17 giveaways, 14 takeaways).

    So is winning faceoffs at a rate that is 5.8% higher than Malkin enough to make up for having fewer points, even though Crosby had no advantage over Malkin either defensively, or on the powerplay, or as a penalty killer?

    Do you really want the Conn Smythe to go to a primarily offensive player who only put up 3 points in 7 Finals games, while not killing penalties, and who was watching in the back as Malkin set up one of Talbot's goals for his 8th point of the series?

    As much as a 30+ point run helps, it helps less when someone else has more. And as good as 30+ is, there needs to be the caveat that Espo in 70 only played three rounds...
     
  15. Dangler99*

    Dangler99* Guest

    30+points now is more impressive than the 70's
     
  16. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    In what way do you get that conclusion? You do know that no one scored 30 points in the playoffs before the 80s right?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  17. Cermi

    Cermi Registered User

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    The only recent 30+points performances that I clearly remember are Leetch in 94 (incredible performance), Malkin/Crosby two years ago - very good, but not close to Leetch, and Briere - not as impresive as the above mentioned. I believe that in 80's there were much more players scoring 30, but it's not rally comparable.
     
  18. Leafs Forever

    Leafs Forever Registered User

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    The reason why people consider Crosby the MVP is the cluthcness, so to speak of that points. Crosby was the man in a tough 7-game series against the Caps and got the largest chunk of his points from that series (the seventh game of that was a laugher, but otherwise..). Malkin was the man in a laugher of a series with Pens vs Canes, where he got most of his points in games hat tended to be more of the blowout variety. Yes, Malkin did carry the load in the finals more, but people attribute that to Crosby taking the best checkers of Detroit (which he did).

    It's arguably either way.
     
  19. arrbez

    arrbez bad chi

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    Here are all the 30+ point seasons:

    Gretzky 1985: 47
    Lemieux 1991: 44
    Gretzky 1988: 43
    Gretzky 1993: 40
    Gretzky 1983: 38

    Coffey 1985: 37
    Malkin 2009: 36
    Bossy 1981: 35
    Gilmour 1993: 35
    Gretzky 1984: 35
    Gretzky 1987: 34
    Leetch 1994: 34
    Lemieux 1992: 34

    Messier 1988: 34
    Recchi 1991: 34
    Sakic 1996: 34
    Middleton 1983: 33

    Stevens 1991: 33
    Pederson 1983: 32
    Bure 1994: 31
    Crosby 2009: 31
    Kurri 1985: 31
    Kurri 1988: 31
    MacInnis 1989: 31
    Messier 1990: 31
    Simpson 1990: 31
    Briere 2010: 30
    Messier 1994: 30

    I bolded the players who led their team in scoring outright, and underlined those who took home the Conn Smyth.


    Of note:

    -Messier is on the list 3 times, yet didn't lead his team in scoring any of those years (tied with Simpson in 1990, with less goals). The year he did win the Conn Smyth he only had 26 points. His teammate Kurri is on there twice, but was 3rd on his own team both times.

    -Gilmour, Middleton, and Pederson are the only players to have hit 30 without making the finals.

    -It occurred 24 times from 1981-1994, and just 4 times in the 15 seasons since.

    -The greatest gap between a scoring leader and the next highest teammate is 15 points, achieved by Gretzky in 1983 and 1993, and Gilmour in 1993.

    -Games played varies from 15 (Lemieux in 1992) to 24 (six different players). I'd love to be able to know how quickly it took these players to reach 30 points, but I'm not willing to put in the work to do that, haha.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  20. MXD

    MXD Original #4

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    Eh.... What?
    That's a bit like saying that scoring 50 goals in the '30ies is less impressive than scoring 50 in the '90ies.

    Only 5 players got more than a 25 points during the playoffs round prior to the '80ies, and amongst them, only two (Lafleur, Espo) had a legit shot at 30. They haven't reached 30 for the sole reason that their team was a little too good, so they ended up playing 14 games instead of, let's say, 18 (which would have been the case if the rounds would been 4-2, instead of 4-0; 4-2; 4-0)

    Bottom line : Lafleur's '77 playoffs are probably the most impressive (offence-wise) until Gretzky scored 47 in 18 games (for forwards).
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2011
  21. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    Yes, Im still waiting for an explanation for that statement...
     
  22. SidGenoMario

    SidGenoMario Registered User

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    Mario with 31 points in 15 playoff games. Wow, man. That's just out of this world. Same with Gretzky's 40-some in 18 games.
     
  23. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I disagree. Crosby was clearly better against Washignton, but Malkin was clearly better against Carolina. I thought they were dead even going into the finals.

    Best playoff run I've ever seen, so yes. None of Sakic's teammates (other than goalie Roy but that's another story) were even close.
     
  24. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Clutchness of points is why I considered Malkin the MVP. He performed in the most important series of the year - the Stanley Cup finals, while Crosby didn't. Crosby got way too much hype for his excellent performance in the super-hyped Crosby/Malkin vs. Ovechkin series.
     
  25. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    11 of those 28 seasons were by Oilers. 5 of the 28 were by players who did not win the Cup.
    I had no idea how many times it had been done. I thought it was far less.
    In my life of watching hockey playoffs which would be about 1986, Gretzky and Mario were the best players with the best runs. Better than Malkin's or anyone else. IMO.
    Gilmour was a fiend in 1993. He was playing like a prime Gretzky until Gretzky out-Gretzky'ed him in Game 7. It is funny in 1989 I was watching the final and I was thinking Gilmour was likely going to be the Smythe winner. I wasn't following stats that much but he just dominated so much of the ice in every game. Not that MacInnis should not have won but Gilmour to a novice hockey fan seemed everywhere and dominating the play all the time he was on the ice. 1990 Oilers, they were just a fantastic team. Tikkanen was out of his mind as were Messier and Simpson.
    Anyway of those players that were not 99 or 66 I can't pick one as the best except maybe Gilmour in Toronto but he did not even make the final.
     

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