GDT: Schneidernator 2: Judgment Day - Devils vs. Wild, 1 PM, MSG+

[TheUnseenHand]

I don't see Parise in the HOF. He's one of those hall of very good players, like Brad Richards or Lecavalier. He'll probably wind up playing quite a bit longer than those guys though.

He's got 46 points in 53 games this year, which is quite a bit more than what he's been producing the last several years.

He had one pretty poor season 2 or 3 years ago, which was probably worse than he really was. I think I calculated that he's about a 53-55 points per 82 player over the last several years, but I don't think that included this year. At least not since the first month or so.

American hockey hall of fame for sure. Hockey hall of fame, not so much.

If Zach gets into the HHOF, Elias damn well better make it.

 

[Oneiro]

If Elias and Hossa don't get in or take forever, it will officially be a joke. Not that it wasn't already.

 

[Billdo]

Lol Zach over kovy? Your nuts. Zach couldn’t get this team past the second round in 10 years? Kovy did it in 2. Zach couldn’t dominate a **** or the play by himself. Kovy could. Kovy played over 20 mins a night as a forward! There’s a reason the wild haven’t been past the second round since he got there.

Praise isn't the reason they haven't made it out of the second round. Is he a factor? Sure I suppose but he's not the sole reason.

With regard to Kovalchuk vs Parise. Overall Parise is the more complete player but the Devils had never had a guy who would make you scoot to the edge of your seat or stand up everytime he got the puck like Kovy did. Kovalchuk was magic when he was on his game. Parise did all the little things you love seeing as a hockey fan but Kovalchuk wow'd you with his ability to take over a game. They're not really comparable players.

 

[Bleedred]

I don’t think they wanted to give him 15 million a year

He wouldn't have gotten $15 million a year for 7-8 years. Not back in 2012 he wasn't.

 

[Bleedred]

Richards won, what, 2 cups with L.A.? And his grit was very close to Zach’s. Two very competitive dudes.

It’s really hard to compare Zach with both Richards and Lecavalier because their roles and positions were so different.

But as to Zach or Kovalchuck, whom we watched play side by side here, I’d choose Zach every time because of exactly that grit, doggedness, lunch pail game but combined with more skill than nearly anyone else who played the game in his style.

Guy Zach most resembles? Different era but John Bucyk.

I was talking about the Richards that played for Tampa and the Rangers. And Dallas in the middle and wherever he went at the end. A year in Chicago and a year in Detroit? Brad Richards. Not Mike Richards, who fell off the face of the earth by age 30 and out of the league about a year after that and had some personal problems from what we know.

 

[Davegarri]

Didn't Mike Richards bang Hartnell's wife? Or was that Jeff Carter?

Or did they tag team her? Lmao

 

[Tundra]

Zach better than Kovalchuk? That's a real knee slapper. Kovalchuk may have been a generational talent during his Atlanta seasons.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Zach better than Kovalchuk? That's a real knee slapper. Kovalchuk may have been a generational talent during his Atlanta seasons.

Agree Kovy was the “better” player one for one, meaning more skilled, dynamic, exciting, faster, more powerful, heavier shot and more unpredictably dangerous on offense.

But - and it’s a bit of a paradox - I would still rather have retained Parise on my club than Kovy if I had had to choose either one or the other at the point when we lost them both. Better defensively? Better in terms of how he competes and makes those better around him? Better in the corners and jamming in front of the net? I am clearly in the minority I suppose and may very well be wrong but after all I am still drawn to this conclusion.

It may have something to do with having watched Zach after he left, while Kovy was media invisible in St. Petersburg. And - even more - it may be just working back from Zach being the guy I would want now, given where they both are today.

 

[135ace]

Agree Kovy was the “better” player one for one, meaning more skilled, dynamic, exciting, faster, more powerful, heavier shot and more unpredictably dangerous on offense.

But - and it’s a bit of a paradox - I would still rather have retained Parise on my club than Kovy if I had had to choose either one or the other at the point when we lost them both. Better defensively? Better in terms of how he competes and makes those better around him? Better in the corners and jamming in front of the net? I am clearly in the minority I suppose and may very well be wrong but after all I am still drawn to this conclusion.

It may have something to do with having watched Zach after he left, while Kovy was media invisible in St. Petersburg. And - even more - it may be just working back from Zach being the guy I would want now, given where they both are today.

Eh, Kovy had started to play more of a 200 foot game by the time he left, but ignoring the "at the time they left" element Kovy has had a far better career. I mean the guy literally took a 5 year holiday from the NHL to play in Russia and still has much better overall career totals than Parise. It's really not even close. Kovy was a top 5-10 player in the league...Zach had like a 1-2 year stretch when he was probably a top 20 guy, but that's it.

 

[Emperoreddy]

They both broke down in a hurry though. You lose career value in my mind for that.

 

[BahlDeep]

Zach was always a complimentary player, a very good one. Kovalchuk blows him out of the water and it's not even close

 

[MadDevil]

Kovy was clearly the more talented player, but Parise was more of a heart and soul type player (until he stuck a knife in that heart anyway). I loved watching them both play, but ultimately I'm glad we don't have either of those contracts.

 

[Camille the Eel]

Zach was always a complimentary player, a very good one. Kovalchuk blows him out of the water and it's not even close

You are right. Career for career.

 

[njdevils1982]

yay.

its sunday and another afternoon game………who the hell are these brain idiot schedule makers

i dont even tune into these kind of games anymore……and it not due to where the team is standing…..its the amount of games stuck right in the middle of the day when i would rather get other shit done……..add in the bye week and its hard to keep wanting to follow….

……games at 7 pm, perfect…….something to do after the sun sets and while making dinner…..

and 2 in a row this weekend?!

holy f*** theyre losing me even more then they are losing games


edit: but, but……there will games the rest of the season every other day until april so it will all be ok right?

 

[Bleedred]

They both broke down in a hurry though. You lose career value in my mind for that.

Kovalchuk was really the one who broke down quicker. Parise had two really huge seasons here and everything else has been really good, but nothing unlike those seasons. Kovalchuk was a perennial 40+ goal guy for 6 years until around the time he got here. Continued to be a good player, but he seemed to take more of a drop off than Zach did, but it's really hard to say just how much, as he hasn't played in the NHL in years.

 

[glenwo2]

Kovalchuk was really the one who broke down quicker. Parise had two really huge seasons here and everything else has been really good, but nothing unlike those seasons. Kovalchuk was a perennial 40+ goal guy for 6 years until around the time he got here. Continued to be a good player, but he seemed to take more of a drop off than Zach did, but it's really hard to say just how much, as he hasn't played in the NHL in years.

Atlanta really wasted his prime years there.

 

[Emperoreddy]

yay.

its sunday and another afternoon game………who the hell are these brain idiot schedule makers

i dont even tune into these kind of games anymore……and it not due to where the team is standing…..its the amount of games stuck right in the middle of the day when i would rather get other **** done……..add in the bye week and its hard to keep wanting to follow….

……games at 7 pm, perfect…….something to do after the sun sets and while making dinner…..

and 2 in a row this weekend?!

holy **** theyre losing me even more then they are losing games


edit: but, but……there will games the rest of the season every other day until april so it will all be ok right?

They want kids and Euro audiences. That is the reason for day games.

 

[njdevils1982]

They want kids and Euro audiences. That is the reason for day games.

i know……just on a bit of rant tonight

 

[Triumph]

so first you say he didn’t play “a lick of defense”. now you’re saying “well SURE, he played defense in his own end. and YES, he backchecked, and yes he killed penalties.” then, after scoffing at the idea that those things are indicative of good defensive play, you cap it off with “he never learned how to angle forwards” and you complain about his 5 on 5 scoring. do i have that right?

Yes, that is right - for the first years of his career, which are the bulk of his NHL time, he played no defense. He wouldn't move in the defensive zone unless he was guaranteed to get the puck with the opportunity to carry it up the ice. No one plays D like this in the NHL anymore - he was the last of them. Then the Devils taught him how to play defense and immediately neutralized his offense and he became a mediocre 5 on 5 scorer. So fine, he learned defense, but he wasn't very good at it (he saw no significant territorial boost), and it didn't make him a better player, because he stopped putting 1 out of every 6 shots at ES in the net. Some of this is on the Devils for putting him with Travis Zajac, so I grant it's not all his fault because he was forced to carry the puck on his line so much, but it's hard to go nuts for his commitment to defense when it didn't make him a better player.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

They want kids and Euro audiences. That is the reason for day games.

I get it but not EVERY DAMN weekend game please. Especially the back to backs like this - 1pm Sat then 7 pm Sun - is that too much to ask?