Schmidt Suspended 20 Games

BattleBorn

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Feb 6, 2015
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I'm willing to believe that Schmidt didn't "cheat" despite all evidence to the contrary. Just seems like a good guy that wouldn't do that kind of thing. Plus, and I'm sure steroids are different than prohibited PEDs in a lot of cases, I can't imagine a guy being that cool and juicing. I've dealt with a lot of roidheads, they're usually assholes.

Beyond that, if he legitimately only took VGK issued supplements, and VGK is supporting him the way they are (which they kind of have to do, but it seems like they came out a little stronger than token support) do we have issues coming in the future? If this is really a tainted supplement with a dude that only takes team-issued supplements, do we potentially have bigger issues?
 
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artificialintuition

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Nov 21, 2017
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Knights/Schmidt fan here as well as someone who actively competes in and coaches athletes who compete in sports that are subject to the rules of USADA/WADA w/r/t drug testing.

Notably, the "major" sports here in the US do NOT subscribe to the anti-doping policies of those agencies, instead implementing their own versions.

What does this mean? Sports like cycling and track & field have more stringent policies, catch more people, but still the cheaters are always ahead of the tests. Doping becomes a major part of the conversation.

NFL, MLB, NHL... you rarely hear about doping, and some of the players' associations *cough* NFL *cough* have made it so that the PLAYER gets to say what they were busted for. It's why lots of 300+ pound, 4.5-second 40, juiced-to-the-gills guy got popped for *drumroll* adderall.




7 billionths of a milligram. That wouldn't even touch a fly.

With respect, we do not know (a) the substance he took, (b) the rate of decay of that substance, (c) when he was popped, (d) whether that substance can be masked, and much more.

You (we) don't know if that amount (per mL!) is enough to trigger whatever benefit, or is an indicator 3 months after the fact that someone took a much larger dose.

In fact, the only thing we have is Nate's own statement (which is probably based on a rule negotiated by the PA that the player gets to say what happened) along with the fact that a panel of arbiters heard his evidence and found him guilty.


I can't quite understand the fact that 7 Billionth of anything can get you suspended from your job, whether it's sports or cleaning toilets. (Big thanks to those that do clean toilets! :thumbu:)

IMO, instead of a "no tolerance of any kind" of policy, there should be a certain impact amount found that would trigger an investigation. One that actual doctors would admit is proven to "enhance" one's benefit to the sport they're playing. I can't see several Billionth of something making players better than they were without it. However, maybe 0.5% of a prohibited substance would call for a look into the player in question.

Schmidt has always been the same type of player he was in Washington, as he is now with Vegas. It's just that he's gotten a lot more ice time with the Knights to prove how good he is. Doping with anything is not who Nate Schmidt is.

Doesn't mean he wasn't doped then. Maybe he just slipped up? Usually with the testing you have to not only be doping but ALSO be stupid or mess up some timing. The dopers know exactly how long stuff remains in the system. In other sports, they also knew if they got x minutes' warning before a tester knocked on the door they could inject saline and dilute the concentration of certain substances in their blood.

Crazy, but when there is real $$$ on the line, people do weird things.

I'm willing to believe that Schmidt didn't "cheat" despite all evidence to the contrary. Just seems like a good guy that wouldn't do that kind of thing. Plus, and I'm sure steroids are different than prohibited PEDs in a lot of cases, I can't imagine a guy being that cool and juicing. I've dealt with a lot of roidheads, they're usually *******s.

Beyond that, if he legitimately only took VGK issued supplements, and VGK is supporting him the way they are (which they kind of have to do, but it seems like they came out a little stronger than token support) do we have issues coming in the future? If this is really a tainted supplement with a dude that only takes team-issued supplements, do we potentially have bigger issues?

Nate seems like one of the good guys. The NHL's drug testing may be a joke (probably is--you're telling me guys are playing 80 games, sometimes with broken bones, and they're doing it all on bread & water?). However, every doper in history says, "I'm innocent!"

I actually do know a person who did convince a council of arbiters that a substance they purchased was tainted; it can be done. Nate failed to do that, despite what he says.

If you care to read up on what people cannot take in sports that are subject to USADA rules, check www.globalDRo_Org. The list of stuff is wide-ranging because it's not always about the stuff that makes a performance difference -- there are things like masking agents that affect other values and make it more difficult to detect. For example, some testing can reveal the most minuscule concentrations of plastics in the blood.

Why the F would you test for that? Turns out that when some banned substances are administered it is done via plastic containers, some of which leeches into the blood supply. People try to say 'environmental contamination,' and that sells well to the general public.


As much as we'd like to believe he is innocent, no one other than Schmitty can say with absolute certainty whether or not he broke the rules. We don't know when he was tested or what he came back positive for, so to speculate is a waste of time until that information is public, if ever.

Honestly, I tend to believe that most guys who test positive are guilty. I am still of the opinion that 90% of NFL & MLB players are still using some sort of PED in one form or another. Why wouldn't they? There are millions upon millions of dollars on the line, and the guy next to them in the locker room is likely doing them. They're competing for very few jobs. Even bible thumping Andy Pettite took HGH, after all.

At this point nobody should be surprised when anyone tests positive. The one truly surprising thing is that only 5 NHL players total have been busted at all. That's not a good look for Schmitty. Bottom line, if he did cheat, he's paying the price, but if he didn't do anything against the rules, it's unfortunate & he'll have a hard time restoring his reputation.

Agree with so much of this.

Like I said above, having a couple token players popped gives the appearance that something is being done. Intellectually we know that these guys simply cannot beat on each other they way they do without doing something extra -- but we just don't want that to be put in our face all the time.

IMO, the major sports are smart because anti-doping doesn't really stop cheating and mainly results in a buzzkill. It's kind of like bringing a vegan to a steakhouse: when you've already made the decision to eat a steak the last thing you want to hear about is conditions in the slaughterhouse. (All respect to vegans--seriously.)

That so few players are popped makes it notable that Nate was caught.

USUALLY in cases where there were mitigating circumstances, a suspension is modified. I'm not familiar enough with the NHL's policy other than a cursory reading which showed that 20 gams is the first offense. I'd bet that if his reasoning was truly sound and the arbiters bought it this might have gone away without us even knowing about it.

Sure does suck for the team and for Nate, though. Hits him hard financially this year, but I can also see it possibly being a BIG hit for a future contract, a spot in the HOF (if it came to that), a future job as an announcer. Some guys rise even higher after this stuff, and others never recover.
 

Vegan Knight

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Feb 16, 2018
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I'll take his word on this and be fine with him serving his suspension. I don't think he's any different than 90% of the NHL players of all time with regards to this, if he did anything or not. I'm sure most players at any time in NHL history could have been popped for something that's banned for some reason or other at some point of most every season of their career.

Nate was never making the HHOF anyway, it doesn't have an impact on what he wants to do after his career and he will still make a lot of money on his contract. Sucks for him that a small segment of fans will bring this up about him and it will be even a small part of his career story but that's something he can deal with.

He will still be eligible for trophies and championships and national teams and will get a bigger contract, though probably with a little money left on the table.

His next contract will probably be smaller now, which could help the team (unfortunately for him) if he still plays well because he's eager to prove himself but doing so at a slightly reduced cap hit.
 

LadyStanley

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Sep 22, 2004
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@Vegan Knight please read CBA Article 47 which covers the substance abuse plan negotiated between NHL and NHLPA. A lot of what happens is not public due to HIPPA and privacy concerns. You'll note that weeks, if not months, of stuff happened before this week's statements from NHL, VGK and Schmidt.

There is no "arbiter" to make the initial decision. Upon appeal, it's a single arbiter who presides at that "hearing".
 

artificialintuition

Registered User
Nov 21, 2017
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@Vegan Knight please read CBA Article 47 which covers the substance abuse plan negotiated between NHL and NHLPA. A lot of what happens is not public due to HIPPA and privacy concerns.

Honestly, this stuff is lame (from an information perspective) but smart (from a league perspective).

Plenty of other sports (USADA/WADA signatories) reveal what the tests revealed because it is justification for the particular suspension. Example: This is true both for amateurs and professionals in cycling.

Hiding behind HIPPA allows people like us to remain in the dark and maintain the delusion that these guys aren't doing anything too bad -- maybe like some powder bought in their local GNC.

The player gets to make his statement and help preserve that delusion.

We never know the truth, nor is it good for the league/$$ for us to. Our heroes remain mostly intact in our eyes. We can also argue that "this guy is being unfairly penalized!" precisely because we don't and won't ever know what was really found.

Like I said early, I'm involved with sports where hunting dopers is a thing, and it has only opened a can of worms. None of these sports are REALLY making a dent in doping.

(Yes, I'm still a fan of Nate, the Knights and hockey in general.)
 

LadyStanley

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Sep 22, 2004
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Per Nate's statement, he claims that all supplements came from team. No GNC shopping for him. :D


(I apologize if I seem a bit distracted. The new Delta Fire in northern California is hitting really close to home. I've been summering in that area at family property for more than five decades.)
 

GKG18

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Jun 25, 2016
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I don't know how it is in hockey, but in the NFL and MLB, first offense PED suspensions are pretty much forgotten when that player shows good form going forward. Who even remembers that Antonio Gates took a four gamer a few years ago? Or Nelson Cruz? They continued their production output and are considered for the excellent players that they are.
 

LadyStanley

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Sep 22, 2004
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Sin City
Questions about drug testing in the NHL surface following...

The Athletic's Katie Strang looks at questions that have come from NHL suspension. (Paywall)
In his statement, Schmidt did not name the substance, the date when he was tested or the circumstances, but multiple sources told The Athletic that Schmidt believes he unwittingly consumed a contaminated meat product this past spring, which ultimately triggered his positive test.

NHL has a "zero tolerance" policy, so that even 1 part per trillion detected would result in positive result.

Changing the system (with more realistic limits) may be part of upcoming CBA negotiations.
 
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Knightmare

VGK fan since the 70’s
Jun 15, 2018
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Las Vegas


Now allowed to practice with team, before his return to play. Probably a lot of bag skates for him on game day.

With him being allowed to practice with the team now, and since he’s in Ottawa with them, do you know if he’s allowed in the locker room on game night? Even though he’s not playing, just his locker room presence could be good for team moral right about now.
 

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