OT: Scandy's Rave Party: Leave Your Dignity at the Door

[Ogrezilla]

The worst is these haters that come on and absolutely trash a movie's ratings because they feel they are part of some "faction" of ****ing dip**** fans that have to protect the company they root for that makes the same repetitive **** they love but you can never criticize.

The moment anything different is out there, you're basically geared to hate it because it's not the exact source material which maybe, just maybe, might not be what is needed or has been done and something different is fun.

I have seen so many movies that critics and *******s on the net have trashed and have thoroughly enjoyed and have not liked movies that have made a ton of money or have this hype because of rabid fans that will love anything that a certain franchise churns out (relax Ogre).

People are dumb, yeah. Trashing ratings of anything is just so silly imo. How many movies end up with like 10000 ratings before it's even released? Way too many. And it's usually like half 1s and half 10s.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Watch it be this fantastic movie, but because everyone wants to hate DC for not doing the same **** everyone else is, it'll be panned.

Haven't wonder woman, aqua man, and shazaam all gotten good reviews? If joker gets panned it'll be for being a weird slow burn or something (which is what I want it to be honestly), not because it's DC.

I'm sure pure haters are out there, but I think most of us disliking a lot of the DC movies lately want to like them. Hell, we keep watching them. Imo their problem is that they did try to do what marvel was doing with the big universe, they just did a terrible job of it. The idea that not doing what everyone else is doing is why people dislike dc movies seems way off based on the people I know at least.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I can't even enjoy movies anymore.

If it's not blatantly having to ignore GIGANTIC plot holes, it's some shoe-horned "message" dreck. if it isn't that, everyone cries on Twitter about it being something horrible and if you enjoy it, well..."You're just part of the problem!"

I hate the internet and YouTube for making people think everything is a plot hole. I feel like about 95% of plot holes I see mentioned are just disagreements with character decisions.

Messages I dunno. It's not like it's some new thing for the arts to contain messages.

Twitter people are silly. The good news is that their opinions on what movies I should watch don't actually matter at all.

I dunno, I just feel like people look for reasons to dislike things. Maybe I'm just missing the big examples?

 

[EightyOne]

I was the biggest star wars fan.

The last movie...running out of fuel...is what drove the entire main conflict.

This is an idea that is non-existent in universe.

But I'm just supposed to accept it as normal. No. I don't think so. It's like if you made a titanic movie, but, instead of an iceberg, it was sunk by...a, marshmallow.

It's a plot hole...or inconsistency, if you want...but it is a huge distraction that makes no sense and makes it really hard to suspend disbelief. It's an idea that is just dumb beyond ANY surface value. It's a plot hole. That spans an entire franchise. It's a total f*** up.


When it comes to messages, there's an entire anti war message in that movie on a casino planet. A movie in a franchise. Called. Star. Wars. It's also anti capitalist. In a Disney movie..who is probably the most blood thirst capitalist monster ever. Fun fact: the whole sequence does zero to advance the plot. It's wholly pointless except to be anti war and anti capitalist.


PLUS, the solution to the main conflict was "strong" female leader sacrifices self at lightspeed into the enemy formation. This act is stupid and not brave for a multitude of reasons. She let a bunch of her people die before executing it. It ruins every past and future battle (more of what I mean when I say, plot hole/cannot suspend disbelief when seeing). AND it could have been done remotely/by a droid, thereby saving everyone and still looking smart. Yet, I'm supposed to be amazed simply because "headstrong woman" did something never before done. She's not Susan B Anthony. She's an idiot.

All of this, marketed towards kids who can't analyze the actual things they're seeing. It's subtle yet powerful. AND it makes everyone else go "wait, what?"

Those see the biggest examples I can give, because I've given up watching much.

 

[Peat]

I dunno, I just feel like people look for reasons to dislike things. Maybe I'm just missing the big examples?

I think sometimes this is the case and I think sometimes people would enjoy their media more for leaving the baggage at the door.

At the same time though, there's a lot of bad storytelling out there - the sort that breaks the expectations it gives to its audience - and, well, that's got it coming. I don't know if its more than it used to be (because I'm a snob who avoided blockbusters until my wife forced me to watch them), but its pretty bad. Totally pointing fingers at Game of Thrones and Star Wars here, both of which I think make not just the mistake of stretching their own internal realities to breaking point, but the absolute cardinal sin of promising one type of story and handing out another.

Also, the amount of movies that make a point of displaying their baggage does make it hard to leave yours behind.

 

[Ogrezilla]

1. That movie has a lot of problems. I wouldn't use it as a standard of modern movies.
2. None of those are plot holes. Inconsistent sure. Bad writing? Yeah. Not plot holes.
3. I don't think it's an antiwar message so much as an anti war-profiteering message. Though I haven't seen it in a while so maybe I'm not remembering it well. Regardless, messages like that have been in movies forever. That's not new at all. Charlie Chaplin was making anti-war movies in 1940.


Mostly, I just think people are exaggerating the difference in movies today vs the past. It happens with absolutely everything.

 

[EightyOne]

Maybe, you're right.

Movies have always sucked.

Instead of one local newspaper to tell us otherwise, we have the internet. And it's far easier to bitch


See: HFPens

Lol

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Haven't wonder woman, aqua man, and shazaam all gotten good reviews? If joker gets panned it'll be for being a weird slow burn or something (which is what I want it to be honestly), not because it's DC.

I'm sure pure haters are out there, but I think most of us disliking a lot of the DC movies lately want to like them. Hell, we keep watching them. Imo their problem is that they did try to do what marvel was doing with the big universe, they just did a terrible job of it. The idea that not doing what everyone else is doing is why people dislike dc movies seems way off based on the people I know at least.

The thing is, if you're used to a lot of 1 thing, then try to like something that isn't what you're used to, you are going to be apprehensive. People have trashed what for example and I don't want to get into a long debate about this - But what Snyder did, it's polarizing to non-fans. Because to them, it's like "Oh, why is it so dark?" well, why not? The Reeves movies were all hope and happy, a different take is interesting, I enjoyed it, but Whedon shit all over what Snyder made and the studios forced that because of fear of not catching Marvel (which they never will, it's basically Wendy's trying to copy McDonalds here, you can't catch the beast, so be the best of the type you are).

DC Movies - Different, different is fine.
Marvel Movies - Established af, nothing will ever catch what they've done as a whole in the whole shared universe, that's the industry standard right there in that realm.

But man the hate...

Titans - Has some hiccups, but the show is actually very good.
Doom Patrol - It's quirky in the comics, the show is as well, it's fun.
Swamp Thing - Man...this is probably the best comic book adapted tv show I have ever seen and DC f***ing cancels it? This is why they can't have nice things.

Like you said, by not doing what everyone else is doing, DC was getting a ton of hate. The moment they relaxed a little and let directors do their best with their creativity, it's opened up hope again. Wonder Woman isn't a great movie, but it's a good start, there are a lot of cringe parts in that movie that rival the empowerment shit in End Game, a lot. But Aquaman was good outside of that weird Pitbull song part, I will never understand that part. Shazam to me was them finally figuring out what they wanted out of their own movie properties - it was good from all acts.

Joker, apparently Phoenix is getting Oscar buzz for his work in it. I really want that movie to do well, not because it's a DC movie, but because it's a movie about a sadistic nutjob that is the greatest comic book villain of all time (ALL TIME). It NEEDS to be good. NEEDS to.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I hate the internet and YouTube for making people think everything is a plot hole. I feel like about 95% of plot holes I see mentioned are just disagreements with character decisions.

Messages I dunno. It's not like it's some new thing for the arts to contain messages.

Twitter people are silly. The good news is that their opinions on what movies I should watch don't actually matter at all.

I dunno, I just feel like people look for reasons to dislike things. Maybe I'm just missing the big examples?

Oh man, you know damn well I am guilty of letting the net and tube f*** with me and the plot hole crap.

I hate it so much. It's almost ruined classic 80's movies for me.



----

The biggest problem for me right now is this forced narrative of today's climate in literally every movie and show. Now we have female characters being obnoxious versions of male characters only because they think that's how they should write strong female characters or that you need an all female team up movie (Widows and now The Kitchen? really? or hey, let's make an all female version of a movie....no). That has never ever ever been needed or wanted by literally anyone. Just like Trans and Gay actors that don't need an all gay or trans actor movie, you just need well written characters that help drive the story and are not obviously fitting some agenda.

For example - A tv show not a movie for my example - Sex Education, they have a flamboyantly gay character in the show, guess what he's not overly dramatic and the typical stereotype, he's written well and you probably love that character more than any other one in the show because the actor is fantastic and so is the character and that's how you write that.

Suits - my gf loves this show, even more now that her lame ass greys anatomy actress is on it, I forget her name, but she's been new to the show since the previous season, she's this over the top female character that tries to be more manly than the male characters, like they made her an army brat with PTSD that likes to box and wants to beat up everyone. That. IS. BAD. WRITING! Not that there aren't women that are army brats that suffer from ptsd, but that is how they wrote her to fit into that world.

Fantastically strong female character? Rose Leslie in The Good Fight, she's bad ass and smart. Good Girls - Literally every single female character in that show is f***ing amazingly written and acted and oh, neither need to be this bravado filled female version of a male character!

That kind of shit, I hate.

Like they remade Dirty Rotten Scoundrels with Hathaway and whats her face that is the brit option for McCarthy, it was such garbage and I am half surprised there's no outrage on the net about how people only hate it because they're female hating men. Not that it's just god awful.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

People are dumb, yeah. Trashing ratings of anything is just so silly imo. How many movies end up with like 10000 ratings before it's even released? Way too many. And it's usually like half 1s and half 10s.

Man...my current fascination is wanting the Snyder cut of the JL movie. To get a director's credit for a movie you take over, you have to direct/write over 33% of it again. 1.5hrs of the movie was changed, literally any scene that has the mustache-gate is Whedon's doing, aka all the bad bits. The movie literally makes no sense because of it. 33% seems small, but 1.5hrs of a 3hr movie is a huge huge chunk suddenly changed. A lot of Darkseid was taken out, a lot of Superman's story was removed and changed, Flash and Cyborg's backstories changed/removed altogether. That's far more than 33%.

I just want to see the culmination of what Snyder wanted to do. Apparently it's 30-40m to complete the rest of what was left on the floor but there's more done than people want to let on.

And damn Kevin Smith for fueling this, that asshole keeps talking about it and keeps pulling me back in.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The thing is, if you're used to a lot of 1 thing, then try to like something that isn't what you're used to, you are going to be apprehensive. People have trashed what for example and I don't want to get into a long debate about this - But what Snyder did, it's polarizing to non-fans. Because to them, it's like "Oh, why is it so dark?" well, why not? The Reeves movies were all hope and happy, a different take is interesting, I enjoyed it, but Whedon **** all over what Snyder made and the studios forced that because of fear of not catching Marvel (which they never will, it's basically Wendy's trying to copy McDonalds here, you can't catch the beast, so be the best of the type you are).

People loved Nolan's Batman movies and they were fairly dark too. That's not Snyder's problem. His problem is that he is all style over substance. His best movie is 300 and the whole thing is pure style. Watchmen is good too, but the worst parts are where he completely missed the point of the comic and made the fight scenes "cool". And they look good, but the fight scene style just doesn't fit the comic story at all. So I disagree with you completely about why people dislike Snyder's movies. They are just not very good. Superman was solid enough, but BvS was just a bad movie. And being dark has nothing to do with it.

Titans - Has some hiccups, but the show is actually very good.
Doom Patrol - It's quirky in the comics, the show is as well, it's fun.
Swamp Thing - Man...this is probably the best comic book adapted tv show I have ever seen and DC ****ing cancels it? This is why they can't have nice things.

The problem is that nobody has seen these things because there are like 3 shows worth watching on that service. I really want to watch doom patrol too.

Joker, apparently Phoenix is getting Oscar buzz for his work in it. I really want that movie to do well, not because it's a DC movie, but because it's a movie about a sadistic nutjob that is the greatest comic book villain of all time (ALL TIME). It NEEDS to be good. NEEDS to.

I'm with you 100% on this one.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The biggest problem for me right now is this forced narrative of today's climate in literally every movie and show. Now we have female characters being obnoxious versions of male characters only because they think that's how they should write strong female characters or that you need an all female team up movie (Widows and now The Kitchen? really? or hey, let's make an all female version of a movie....no). That has never ever ever been needed or wanted by literally anyone. Just like Trans and Gay actors that don't need an all gay or trans actor movie, you just need well written characters that help drive the story and are not obviously fitting some agenda.

For example - A tv show not a movie for my example - Sex Education, they have a flamboyantly gay character in the show, guess what he's not overly dramatic and the typical stereotype, he's written well and you probably love that character more than any other one in the show because the actor is fantastic and so is the character and that's how you write that.

Suits - my gf loves this show, even more now that her lame ass greys anatomy actress is on it, I forget her name, but she's been new to the show since the previous season, she's this over the top female character that tries to be more manly than the male characters, like they made her an army brat with PTSD that likes to box and wants to beat up everyone. That. IS. BAD. WRITING! Not that there aren't women that are army brats that suffer from ptsd, but that is how they wrote her to fit into that world.

Fantastically strong female character? Rose Leslie in The Good Fight, she's bad ass and smart. Good Girls - Literally every single female character in that show is ****ing amazingly written and acted and oh, neither need to be this bravado filled female version of a male character!

A lot of things do it badly. But I still don't see why people get upset over little bits of it like in end game when it's such a small part. I'd say euphoria handles that stuff better than a lot of shows. But overall I just don't think I watch the shows or movies that are doing this stuff really badly lately.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Man...my current fascination is wanting the Snyder cut of the JL movie. To get a director's credit for a movie you take over, you have to direct/write over 33% of it again. 1.5hrs of the movie was changed, literally any scene that has the mustache-gate is Whedon's doing, aka all the bad bits. The movie literally makes no sense because of it. 33% seems small, but 1.5hrs of a 3hr movie is a huge huge chunk suddenly changed. A lot of Darkseid was taken out, a lot of Superman's story was removed and changed, Flash and Cyborg's backstories changed/removed altogether. That's far more than 33%.

I just want to see the culmination of what Snyder wanted to do. Apparently it's 30-40m to complete the rest of what was left on the floor but there's more done than people want to let on.

And damn Kevin Smith for fueling this, that ******* keeps talking about it and keeps pulling me back in.

I bet Snyder's version is better but still bad. But I'm obviously not a fan of his.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

People loved Nolan's Batman movies and they were fairly dark too. That's not Snyder's problem. His problem is that he is all style over substance. His best movie is 300 and the whole thing is pure style. Watchmen is good too, but the worst parts are where he completely missed the point of the comic and made the fight scenes "cool". And they look good, but the fight scene style just doesn't fit the comic story at all. So I disagree with you completely about why people dislike Snyder's movies. They are just not very good. Superman was solid enough, but BvS was just a bad movie. And being dark has nothing to do with it.

The problem is that nobody has seen these things because there are like 3 shows worth watching on that service. I really want to watch doom patrol too.

I'm with you 100% on this one.

See I didn't mind Watchmen as it was and I liked the darker take and his take. As do countless others, which is why those movies made money but critics panned it because they compared it to Marvels movies and notice the fun was missing and the studios freaked and fired Snyder.

I have never seen such an out cry for the previous director's cut of a movie from it's own lead actors. Jason Momoa has even asked for it to be released.

It's forever going to haunt me because we really only saw 40-42% of Snyder's movie mixed in with the junk Whedon created and ruined.

Justice League: Every DC Character Cut From Zack Snyder's Original Version
Justice League: How Batman Was Different in Zack Snyder's Original Cut

 

[Ogrezilla]

See I didn't mind Watchmen as it was and I liked the darker take and his take. As do countless others, which is why those movies made money but critics panned it because they compared it to Marvels movies and notice the fun was missing and the studios freaked and fired Snyder.

I have never seen such an out cry for the previous director's cut of a movie from it's own lead actors. Jason Momoa has even asked for it to be released.

It's forever going to haunt me because we really only saw 40-42% of Snyder's movie mixed in with the junk Whedon created and ruined.

Justice League: Every DC Character Cut From Zack Snyder's Original Version
Justice League: How Batman Was Different in Zack Snyder's Original Cut

I like Watchmen, I just wish he didn't change that bit up. It's still a good movie though. I can't imagine critics panned it due to Marvel's movies though. Iron Man and Incredible Hulk were the only two out. At that point if it was being compared to something, I'm sure it was The Dark Knight and probably still 300. Probably even Sin City, which was probably even weirder and darker yet very well received. Actually looking, Watchmen is his 2nd highest rated movie that he's direction on Rotten Tomatoes (for what little that's worth) after Dawn of the Dead.

I don't doubt that Snyder's cut is better than what we got. Switching it up so much that late was always going to be a mess. But making that movie how and when they did was just always going to be a mess imo. I've said I didn't like what DC/Snyder was doing with those movies, but doing an about-face to try to do what Marvel was doing was an even worse idea.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I like Watchmen, I just wish he didn't change that bit up. It's still a good movie though. I can't imagine critics panned it due to Marvel's movies though. Iron Man and Incredible Hulk were the only two out at that point. At that point if it was being compared to something, I'm sure it was The Dark Knight and probably still 300.

I meant his Superman and BVS movie.

Watchmen Ultimate Edition (Director's Cut) is a fantastic movie. Watch that one when you get a chance, he's notorious for his "cuts" and you can see why, because his cuts are what he wants you to see and not what the studio made him trim and change for their own shit. It's why when I saw BvS in the theatres, I was like...what? Then the Ultimate Edition came out and it just flowed so much better.

Watchmen was also a very hard movie to make, people hated on it literally because it was gritty and rated R and that the story was hard to follow if you weren't a fan of the comics, I mean...it was made to appease the massive fans of it. For it to do much better, they had to make it shorter than over 2hrs, dumb it down a ton, take off the R rating to PG-13. The movie was just made at the wrong time, in 2007...people wanted shorter movies. It's a recent thing where longer movies are back to being popular again and rated R being something that is sought after for some comic adapted movies (Deadpool, Joker, etc).

Funniest thing is all these people that love Rotten Tomatoes as their reason to watch movies.

Venom made close to 1B and had a rating of like 26% for approval. The movie is literally the weirdest shit I have ever seen but if I listened to the people that said it was crap, I wouldn't have seen a whacky af movie that I actually enjoyed for its weirdness. Many others did as well, the word of mouth for Venom drove that movie to a sequel.

Watchmen made substantially less (albeit, 10yrs ago) and has an approval of 64% which is still not good for a "comic book movie."

 

[Ogrezilla]

I meant his Superman and BVS movie.

Watchmen Ultimate Edition (Director's Cut) is a fantastic movie. Watch that one when you get a chance, he's notorious for his "cuts" and you can see why, because his cuts are what he wants you to see and not what the studio made him trim and change for their own ****. It's why when I saw BvS in the theatres, I was like...what? Then the Ultimate Edition came out and it just flowed so much better.

Watchmen was also a very hard movie to make, people hated on it literally because it was gritty and rated R and that the story was hard to follow if you weren't a fan of the comics, I mean...it was made to appease the massive fans of it. For it to do much better, they had to make it shorter than over 2hrs, dumb it down a ton, take off the R rating to PG-13. The movie was just made at the wrong time, in 2007...people wanted shorter movies. It's a recent thing where longer movies are back to being popular again and rated R being something that is sought after for some comic adapted movies (Deadpool, Joker, etc).

Funniest thing is all these people that love Rotten Tomatoes as their reason to watch movies.

Venom made close to 1B and had a rating of like 26% for approval. The movie is literally the weirdest **** I have ever seen but if I listened to the people that said it was crap, I wouldn't have seen a whacky af movie that I actually enjoyed for its weirdness. Many others did as well, the word of mouth for Venom drove that movie to a sequel.

Watchmen made substantially less (albeit, 11yrs ago) and has an approval of 64% which is still not good for a "comic book movie."

I liked Watchmen and I've seen all the cuts. Actually I'm not sure if I ever saw the theatrical cut. But I've seen the two different longer ones. The good stuff is really good and definitely outweighs the bad. And the bad isn't even straight up bad, but imo it's just worse than the comic. Not even the ending. I'm fine with that change. It's the general characterization of the Watchmen as "cool" that bothers me, and it's mostly the fight scenes that really do it. They nail it with The Comedian and Manhattan I think, but not the rest.

I think Venom should have just been a different name/character than Venom/Brock. That's my only issue with it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I liked Watchmen and I've seen all the cuts. Actually I'm not sure if I ever saw the theatrical cut. But I've seen the two different longer ones. The good stuff is really good and definitely outweighs the bad. And the bad isn't even straight up bad, but imo it's just worse than the comic. Not even the ending. I'm fine with that change. It's the general characterization of the Watchmen as "cool" that bothers me, and it's mostly the fight scenes that really do it.

I think Venom should have just been a different name/character than Venom/Brock. That's my only issue with it.

Watchmen had to be made that way to draw in the audience, if you are a fan of the comic like me, you know that if they had made that movie in 2009 the way it was, it would have bombed big time. The world wasn't ready for a comic book movie like that, something had to pave the way for it first. Just like The Boys, Ennis & Rogen and his crew needed to have Preacher out first to test the waters as it were, before they could know that the audience they were targeting, would love such a show.

I'm like that with some of the Marvel stuff, I think some of their changes are stupid for the movie, but people love it so it's whatever.

I just hope some huge DC fans get the money together to get the Snyder cut released so we can see what it was actually supposed to be. The only sad thing is that Whedon with the blind help from the studios f***ed that movie so hard, so dry and raw, that it literally lost Affleck and potentially Cavill as Superman.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Watchmen had to be made that way to draw in the audience, if you are a fan of the comic like me, you know that if they had made that movie in 2009 the way it was, it would have bombed big time. The world wasn't ready for a comic book movie like that, something had to pave the way for it first. Just like The Boys, Ennis & Rogen and his crew needed to have Preacher out first to test the waters as it were, before they could know that the audience they were targeting, would love such a show.

I'm like that with some of the Marvel stuff, I think some of their changes are stupid for the movie, but people love it so it's whatever.

I get that, it's just disappointing. I know Watchmen wanted to have good guys and not just all bad guys. I guess it bothers me more with Watchmen than with Marvel because Marvel seems to be more superficial changes, whereas the Watchmen changes completely flip the point of the characters. Movie Rorschach, SS, and NO are legit turned into the characters that they are satirizing in the comic. Sure they are a bit troubled, but they are depicted as legit superheroes. Comedian was characterized along the lines of how they all should have been, they just needed some good guys too.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Watchmen had some scenes taken "frame by frame" from the graphic novel and the f***ing nerds still complained. It's lose-lose.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Watchmen had some scenes taken "frame by frame" from the graphic novel and the ****ing nerds still complained. It's lose-lose.

taking some scenes frame by frame and then putting a completely different character in the same costume is kind of silly though, isn't it? It's a good movie with the same basic plot and it looks amazing, but the way that the story is told is completely different. You come away with a completely different view of the characters and their place in the world.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

taking some scenes frame by frame and then putting a completely different character in the same costume is kind of silly though, isn't it?

Regardless, Snyder was "ruining" the scene by either changing the characters, changing the scene, or copying the scene.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Regardless, Snyder was "ruining" the scene by either changing the characters, changing the scene, or copying the scene.

Like I said earlier, somebody is always going to hate everything. Especially an adaptation or sequel in a franchise. I think it's a good movie, I just wish it didn't change the view of the characters like it did.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Like I said earlier, somebody is always going to hate everything. Especially an adaptation or sequel in a franchise. I think it's a good movie, I just wish it didn't change the view of the characters like it did.

Yep! At this point if it's an adaptation of some sort it'll always be lose-lose.

You and your ninja-edits.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I just hope some huge DC fans get the money together to get the Snyder cut released so we can see what it was actually supposed to be. The only sad thing is that Whedon with the blind help from the studios ****ed that movie so hard, so dry and raw, that it literally lost Affleck and potentially Cavill as Superman.

To be fair though, I think Snyder started them down that path with BvS. Though like I said, the about face just made it worse than continuing down that path and seeing it through. I think both of them do a good job as the characters, but I just don't like the movies.