News Article: [SB Nation] Was it worth it?

[Stylizer1]

It's been a horrible 12 years starting with Bryan Murray being named General Manager. The team should have been dismantled early in his tenure but one tepid re-tool after another was a recipe for failure. I'm glad we're finally bottoming out but it never should have taken this long.

My personal low point was the Campoli trade coupled with the Hartsburg firing. Instead of bottoming out in a great draft year we surged under a new coach and wound up drafting Cowen. I still laugh at those who thought Bryan Murray conned Toronto into drafting Nazem Kadri so we could take Cowen.

 

[JungleBeat]

Won’t argue that. But First trade Dorion made as gm was zibanejad and a 2nd round pick for brassard and round 7 pick

Dorion is basically the same but comes across like a greasy used cars salesman.

 

[DrEasy]

If we could freeze time just before the Duchene trade, and nix that.....

We knew it would take awhile for Erik to recover from his ankle injury. We knew a big chunk of that ECF run was massive luck (Boston without most of their D and the Rangers on a big funk)....it wouldn't have hurt to sit tight for a year and see hoe Erik recovered (or hell, give him a few more months off and call the season a write-off) and just keep the team together and evaluate in the summer. Yes, chances are we still would've had to move one of our big ticket guys, but we would've had a better chance at a proper team evaluation, and trade more at a position of strength than desperation.

If I could freeze time I'd go back to right before the Ziba trade... scratch that, right before the Alfie debacle.

 

[Alfie11]

It was worth it.

With better ownership, management and coaching, we definitely do better, but it was a decent decade considering they operate under such a tight budget with no margin for error.

This is it. The Ottawa Senators don't spend/have any money. That lightning in the bottle ECF run was a best case scenario for the team. It took some luck at the draft table and some creative, short-term view trades to manage.

I don't know why fans continue to judge this team like other teams. The closest comparable would be the NHL owned era Coyotes. The team is in the league but it's not serious about winning.

Of course they're bad. They don't spend and there's no "moneyball" solution.

 

[DrEasy]

Of course they're bad. They don't spend and there's no "moneyball" solution.

And if there was a "moneyball" solution, we wouldn't be the ones to find it, since our analytics department is probably among the smallest in the league.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Feels like an unfortunate kind of decade. Craig Anderson was the perfect goalie, and we drafted great players that emerged this decade. Karlsson's injury in 2013, Spezza/Alfie leaving, McArthur's concussion, and lack of commitment from management didn't allow us to really stretch our legs consistently.

 

[Tuna99]

Feels like an unfortunate kind of decade. Craig Anderson was the perfect goalie, and we drafted great players that emerged this decade. Karlsson's injury in 2013, Spezza/Alfie leaving, McArthur's concussion, and lack of commitment from management didn't allow us to really stretch our legs consistently.

if the Murray regime hadn’t drafted EK they would of been maybe the worst management group in the history of the Senators

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

The 2015 stretch run with Hamburglar was definitely worth it. Was a truly exciting time to be a fan, and nothing about that run seemed flukey to me... Hammond played well, sure, but the Sens legitimately deserved to win most of those games. When you look at the young core at that time, there was real cause for optimism....

The 2017 run was fun, but it always had the feel of being EK + lots of good fortune.

 

[Dingle]

It is difficult to answer the basic question. If some Ahole annoys you and you throw a punch.Well a few days in jail, a few bucks in fines, and an assault record..But you have the satisfaction of throwing that punch. It will cost you and in time, as that short term satisfaction goes away you will most likely come to regret it more and more....or possibly revel in it more and more.

To defend the club, It is impossible to know how things may have turned out if different decisions were made from 07 until today. All we know is, the team took the path that they did, and we are here. The situation is simple, how do we dig out? How do we do so, reasonably quickly? This is now year 3 of the team finishing near the absolute bottom.

To add more fuel to the fire: If you are going to throw a punch at some aHole. Make sure it is hard enough that he spend the rest of his life dealing with its effects. Yes, you pay a slightly higher price, but you have a way higher reward. Had all their moves the last 12 years, produced a cup and here we are at the bottom..worth it.. In the end, this team did not throw a punch, but a gentle slap. And we are near the bottom, for a slap.

 

[Ice-Tray]

We have gone further only once in our history, that’s hardly a slap.

And we still faired better than most of the league over that time, so it’s not like we can complain too loudly.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It is difficult to answer the basic question. If some Ahole annoys you and you throw a punch.Well a few days in jail, a few bucks in fines, and an assault record..But you have the satisfaction of throwing that punch. It will cost you and in time, as that short term satisfaction goes away you will most likely come to regret it more and more....or possibly revel in it more and more.

To defend the club, It is impossible to know how things may have turned out if different decisions were made from 07 until today. All we know is, the team took the path that they did, and we are here. The situation is simple, how do we dig out? How do we do so, reasonably quickly? This is now year 3 of the team finishing near the absolute bottom.

To add more fuel to the fire: If you are going to throw a punch at some aHole. Make sure it is hard enough that he spend the rest of his life dealing with its effects. Yes, you pay a slightly higher price, but you have a way higher reward. Had all their moves the last 12 years, produced a cup and here we are at the bottom..worth it.. In the end, this team did not throw a punch, but a gentle slap. And we are near the bottom, for a slap.

Not sure about your analogy but the last part is bang on and this thread could quickly devolve into another #MelnykOut type... because for the most part he is the reason for the slap vs the punch.

 

[Dingle]

We have gone further only once in our history, that’s hardly a slap.

And we still faired better than most of the league over that time, so it’s not like we can complain too loudly.

The Montreal Canadians honor players who have enough Stanley cup rings that they would drown should they go swimming with them on. They honor players who have achieved significant accomplishments in their career. That is (or was) winning. When you honor some guy who has neither cups, nor personal trophies, nor any true accomplishment, then all you are doing is lowering the bar to ridicules lows.

When our pride is a trip to a conference final, when we look upon it as something significant. When we trade it for 3 years and counting of near bottom finishes, WOW have we lowered standards.

 

[Alfie11]

The Montreal Canadians honor players who have enough Stanley cup rings that they would drown should they go swimming with them on. They honor players who have achieved significant accomplishments in their career. That is (or was) winning. When you honor some guy who has neither cups, nor personal trophies, nor any true accomplishment, then all you are doing is lowering the bar to ridicules lows.

When our pride is a trip to a conference final, when we look upon it as something significant. When we trade it for 3 years and counting of near bottom finishes, WOW have we lowered standards.

The Ottawa Senators are not the Montreal Canadiens. The Canadiens are a large market with a storied history. The Sens are a barely viable NHL team. You can't hold them to the same standard.

If anything, given team spend, the Senators have outperformed. They should not expect to make the playoffs or have deep runs. Cheer for the team but don't have any expectations of winning, it's just not going to happen without a lot more money being spent.

We're like Kazakhstan at the World Juniors. No hope of a medal. A victory would be avoiding relegation. Ties and close losses to teams like Canada are considered good results. That's the Ottawa Senators, the Kazakhs of the NHL.

 

[Matsens15]

Well it was a waste of time imo... starting with Bryan Murray.. You guys think dorion makes bad trade, Murray was way worse at trading. The only good thing about Murray is that he was able to ‘’control’’ Melnyk lol

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't get the question....

Was cheering for the Senators worth it? Worth what? I didn't give anything up in order to cheer for the team.

Also the whole "if you didn't win a championship then it was a wasted decade" is nonsense. The two stand out runs prior to this decade were in 2003 and 2007, we got two great runs in 2015 and 2017 on top of a publicly humiliating the Habs in 2013. It was a great decade for a tiny team with no money that is owned by a decrepid con artist.

If, when I die, the Sens haven't won a Cup, will my fandom have been a waste of time? Of course not.

You can really tell the author is 21 years old

 

[BatherSeason]

And if there was a "moneyball" solution, we wouldn't be the ones to find it, since our analytics department is probably among the smallest in the league.

According to their website, the analytics department doesn't exist.

Hockey Operations, Coaches, Scouts, Training and Medical Staff

 

[Dingle]

The Ottawa Senators are not the Montreal Canadiens. The Canadiens are a large market with a storied history. The Sens are a barely viable NHL team. You can't hold them to the same standard.

If anything, given team spend, the Senators have outperformed. They should not expect to make the playoffs or have deep runs. Cheer for the team but don't have any expectations of winning, it's just not going to happen without a lot more money being spent.

We're like Kazakhstan at the World Juniors. No hope of a medal. A victory would be avoiding relegation. Ties and close losses to teams like Canada are considered good results. That's the Ottawa Senators, the Kazakhs of the NHL.

Alfie,

The Kazakhs don't go around saying: we will win the WJC..they don't make promises...The president of their association does not go on TV and blast the fans. He does not make claims of unparalleled success, etc. I am only guessing here, but if you attend a Kazakh WCJ game, the building is mostly empty and the IIHF does not blast fans of that city. I am guessing that at the WCJ, the Kazakh games are not exactly on prime time.

And in kazakhstan, their association is not playing in some 18000 fan arena and charging a fortune.

What we have here is: We have the Kazakh WCJ team, put the grandiose that belongs to Canada's WCJ team.

All I ask, if I am to get the BS..give me the wins..If you are going to give me the losses, at least have the dignity of sparing me the BS.

 

[Dingle]

I don't get the question....

Was cheering for the Senators worth it? Worth what? I didn't give anything up in order to cheer for the team.

Also the whole "if you didn't win a championship then it was a wasted decade" is nonsense. The two stand out runs prior to this decade were in 2003 and 2007, we got two great runs in 2015 and 2017 on top of a publicly humiliating the Habs in 2013. It was a great decade for a tiny team with no money that is owned by a decrepid con artist.

If, when I die, the Sens haven't won a Cup, will my fandom have been a waste of time? Of course not.

You can really tell the author is 21 years old

congratulations, you belong to about 20-30% of all fans, the remaining 70-80 %, would really like wining. Nothing wrong with losing. We would all love for our child to come home with straight Cees and Dees. And most of us would be overjoyed to know that our Doctor ranked last in his Med school class.

So, hang on to your beliefs. They are admirable..Just be okay if the rest of us aspire a bit higher.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

congratulations, you belong to about 20-30% of all fans, the remaining 70-80 %, would really like wining. Nothing wrong with losing. We would all love for our child to come home with straight Cees and Dees. And most of us would be overjoyed to know that our Doctor ranked last in his Med school class.

So, hang on to your beliefs. They are admirable..Just be okay if the rest of us aspire a bit higher.

Me saying "not winning a championship doesn't mean everything was a waste of time" doesn't mean I don't hope for a championship...



I'm a fan because I like the team, not because I think they are going win/due a championship. My appreciation of the team isn't conditional.

 

[Dingle]

Me saying "not winning a championship doesn't mean everything was a waste of time" doesn't mean I don't hope for a championship...



I'm a fan because I like the team, not because I think they are going win/due a championship. My appreciation of the team isn't conditional.

nothing wrong with it. Fan loyalty is good. But in the same nature, we all love our kids. It does not mean that we do not hold them to good standards. It does not mean when the kid comes home with C's and D's that we do not expect more and work with him to get more.

And if your kid is getting C's and D's due to lack of effort. If at every parent/teacher interview his teachers complain about him. Maybe, just maybe we need to do something about it. And maybe, just maybe, it is well within our right to be disappointed, if not angry.

This franchise was given a free reign from day 1, until 4/5 years ago. So ~20 years of unquestioned fandom. Okay, can we now ask about all the C's and D's teh last 12 years? Can we now let them know, we want A's and B's? And still be looked upon, like loving parents.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

nothing wrong with it. Fan loyalty is good. But in the same nature, we all love our kids. It does not mean that we do not hold them to good standards. It does not mean when the kid comes home with C's and D's that we do not expect more and work with him to get more.

And if your kid is getting C's and D's due to lack of effort. If at every parent/teacher interview his teachers complain about him. Maybe, just maybe we need to do something about it. And maybe, just maybe, it is well within our right to be disappointed, if not angry.

This franchise was given a free reign from day 1, until 4/5 years ago. So ~20 years of unquestioned fandom. Okay, can we now ask about all the C's and D's teh last 12 years? Can we now let them know, we want A's and B's? And still be looked upon, like loving parents.

What in the **** are you going on about

I just said that thinking that cheering for a team that didn't win a championship as a "waste of time" was silly.

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

Did I have a choice?

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Championships can be overrated sometimes. It's about the memories, not the jewelry.

Compare the ECF journey Sens had a couple years ago to say the GS Warriors losing one game all playoffs on their way to the last chip. Drama creates the excitement and I'd rather be part of an exhilarating run than a chip with no drama whatsoever.

 

[Xspyrit]

I think many Sens fans have unrealistic expectations. They're David (Ottawa) vs Goliath to (
Toronto/Montreal/NY) but yet expect their team to swim with the other big fish. But in reality Ottawa is a much smaller market stuck between giants. And even if you're one of those rich teams, success isn't guaranteed either, particularly if you look at Montreal/Toronto the last 2 decades. Its probably Sens fans have been spoiled from 1997 to 2007 but it's a cycle and very few teams stay at the top longer than that.

From 2009-10 to 2016-17 (before the fall from grace), Sens had an overall record of 304-240-78 and 686 pts. Nothing exceptional but still good for 18th in the NHL during that period of time. Made the playoffs 5 out of these 8 seasons and won 3 rounds (1 ECF). Again, nothing exceptional but several teams didn't fare much better. It was a decade dominated by the Bruins, Hawks, Penguins, Capitals, Blues, Kings, Sharks... Pretty much all the rest had mitigated results. Just making the playoffs should be considered a success nowadays, with so much parity in the league.

Then of course, what happened in 2018 kinda ruined everything where we had to endure the firesale of elite players in their prime. I see that Murray gets some criticism by some (who are probably very little informed about the team) but he laid an incredible foundation that should have been built around (Karlsson, Zibanejad, Stone, Chabot, Hoffman, Dzingel, White, Wolanin, Turris, Pageau, etc). Sure, MacArthur and Methot injuries (and Ryan too) and other declines didn't help the team but there was enough talent on the roster and in the pool to build a contender. Of course, you need an owner that is financially committed towards that goal (pay the core, best coaching staff possible, goaltending, support players, etc)

Dorion inherited a lot of great/nice assets while Murray inherited a first line and a few good players (Vermette and Fisher and vets approaching decline like Phillips and Neil). The team had non-existent depth back then and a very very weak prospect pool. Yet, in just a few years, (2008 to 2012), Murray brought several great building blocks but unfortunately he started to have health issues and the rest is history. Melnyk replaced him by somebody who was totally green for the job, a great scout and head of development but was probably not ready to be a NHL GM.

In summary, the results for the decade were pretty much average. If you think the decade was "terrible" then maybe it's because you have really high standards (and probably very unrealistic). It's cool if you push to achieve excellence in life but it's the exception and not the norm.

I don't get the question....

Was cheering for the Senators worth it? Worth what? I didn't give anything up in order to cheer for the team.

Also the whole "if you didn't win a championship then it was a wasted decade" is nonsense. The two stand out runs prior to this decade were in 2003 and 2007, we got two great runs in 2015 and 2017 on top of a publicly humiliating the Habs in 2013. It was a great decade for a tiny team with no money that is owned by a decrepid con artist.

If, when I die, the Sens haven't won a Cup, will my fandom have been a waste of time? Of course not.

You can really tell the author is 21 years old

lol thanks I am not crazy. The question in this article is kinda stupid. Was it worth it OVER WHAT? lol

I mean, what was the price to pay to play these seasons? Did we put our souls on the table? Does he mean "was it worth it" to have a NHL franchise to only have average results? Yeah, maybe not that much, move the team to the US

And regarding the "if you didn't win a championship then it was a wasted decade", lol then it's not worth it for any Canadian teams, 26 years and counting. Really, all those Canadian teams should give up and move their franchise to the US.

Really, was it complicated to ask "what is your level of satisfaction regarding the Sens decade?"

 

[Dingle]

Championships can be overrated sometimes. It's about the memories, not the jewelry.

Compare the ECF journey Sens had a couple years ago to say the GS Warriors losing one game all playoffs on their way to the last chip. Drama creates the excitement and I'd rather be part of an exhilarating run than a chip with no drama whatsoever.

G...there is a phrase about "better ruling in Hell, than following in Heaven". Take a look at what the win for the Raptors has represented. It is okay to burn a decade, if at the end a title. It is okay, to slump after a title and endure a bad decade. But the questioned being asked is: are the 3 instances of success, with no title and I will argue limited true achievement, worth it?

That is the initial posts question?

The team wants you to scream; YES. Thus forgiving them, thus enduring the rebuild. Making it alright. So, run back to the arena, all is well. Run back to your TVs, IPAD, cellphones, etc.

There is a pretty good sized group, saying : NO.

and the steady decline since ~ 2010 in fan attendance, including empty seats in the 16-17 playoffs, that suggest that fans, believe NO. There has been no bump in attendance after any of the 3 playoff moments they describe.