Savard Wickenheiser draft question
- Thread starter Leaf Lander
- Start date
No that's not true. At the time Wick was exactly what the Canadians needed as he was a big goal scoring Center on a team with a ton of small centers. Plus he was a consensus No. 1 pick. I guess if a team needed a defenceman they would have picked Babych but he was No. 1 on most lists.
BM67
Registered User
Serge Savard was still playing in 1980, so I'm not sure how he would come into it.
Wickenheiser had size, 6'1" 200 lbs. vs 5'10" 167 lbs., and was Canadian Major-Junior Player of Year. Savard out pointed him 181 to 170, but Wickenheiser had him in goals 89 to 63.
http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1980/80001.html
http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1980/80003.html
Wickenheiser had size, 6'1" 200 lbs. vs 5'10" 167 lbs., and was Canadian Major-Junior Player of Year. Savard out pointed him 181 to 170, but Wickenheiser had him in goals 89 to 63.
http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1980/80001.html
http://www.hockeydraftcentral.com/1980/80003.html
MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
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was anyone there who can give an account of what occurred
was the habs gm missing at the tiem due to illness and if so who made the selection at the podium
was the habs gm missing at the tiem due to illness and if so who made the selection at the podium
Canadiens Fan
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2008
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The selection was made by Irving Grundman, the Canadiens general manager.
As was pointed out by an earlier poster Wickenheiser was the consensus number one choice (the Hockey News had him ranked as such) and the Canadiens were looking for a big tall center (in the mold of Pete Mahovlich).
For more on Wickenheiser and the story behind the pick and that draft, read this ...
http://www.habsworld.net/article.php?id=1679
Habsfunk
Registered User
The story I've heard goes that Sam Pollock acquired Colorado's 1st round pick that year back in 1978 with his eye on Wayne Gretzky. It would have been his draft year, but in 1979 the draft age was lowered, negating that. Then Wayne signed with the WHA, so he never entered the draft anyway.
Still, to me, if the story is true, its one of those great ifs in hockey. It's also a great sign of Sam Pollock's genius and foresight. Add Gretzky to the Habs of the 80s and the dynasty surely would have continued.
Still, to me, if the story is true, its one of those great ifs in hockey. It's also a great sign of Sam Pollock's genius and foresight. Add Gretzky to the Habs of the 80s and the dynasty surely would have continued.
reckoning
Registered User
- Jan 4, 2005
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I don't know that Wickenheiser was the consensus #1 choice. He may have been the top prospect if you had to put that label on somebody, but it was very close between him and Babych and many other teams would've taken Babych if they had that pick depending on the state of their defence.
The rumour about that draft was that Montreal offered Guy LaPointe to Winnipeg in exchange for their first-rounder (which would've given the Habs the top two picks), but John Ferguson wisely declined the deal.
The rumour about that draft was that Montreal offered Guy LaPointe to Winnipeg in exchange for their first-rounder (which would've given the Habs the top two picks), but John Ferguson wisely declined the deal.
I''m pretty sure Gretzky's draft year would have been 1981, as prior to 1979 players were 20 when drafted. Gretzky was only 19 in 1980.
On the gretzky thing
Gretzky was protected by the Oilers as they entered the nhl with a roster that ended up being dispersed into thenhl butthey could protect a few players and he and messier and a few others were protected
any WHA Team that signed gretzky would never be allowed into the nhl so Indianapolis (a very sucessful hockey market) sold him / deal him to the oilers ensurignthe oilers sucess and Indianapolis demise as a nhl market.
Thus I can't see how gretzky could be on the canadiens radar unless it was around 77-78
Gretzky was protected by the Oilers as they entered the nhl with a roster that ended up being dispersed into thenhl butthey could protect a few players and he and messier and a few others were protected
any WHA Team that signed gretzky would never be allowed into the nhl so Indianapolis (a very sucessful hockey market) sold him / deal him to the oilers ensurignthe oilers sucess and Indianapolis demise as a nhl market.
Thus I can't see how gretzky could be on the canadiens radar unless it was around 77-78
None of that is true.
Messier was never with the WHA Oilers. He played with Indianapolis (after Gretzky left) and the Cincinnati Stingers. Since the Stingers didn't make it to the NHL, and he was 18, Messier was eligible for the 1979 draft, where the Oilers selected him.
Indianapolis was doing good for a while, but by 1978-79 they were starting to die, and Nelson Skalbania (the Racers owner) knew they wouldn't make it to the NHL, so started selling off players. Gretzky was sent to Edmonton in exchange for some money.
And the Canadiens acquired the first overall pick from Colorado by the following (as per Wikipedia):
The Colorado Rockies' first round pick went to the Montreal Canadiens as the result of a trade on September 13, 1976 that sent Ron Andruff, Sean Shanahan and the 19th overall pick to the Colorado Rockies in exchange for this pick.
kaiser i think your guessing
I heard soemthig nabout thaqt on HNIC Radio
There must be a book that explains what really happened when the wha folded
The messier thing I am not disputing
I heard soemthig nabout thaqt on HNIC Radio
There must be a book that explains what really happened when the wha folded
The messier thing I am not disputing
Just read over part of "The Rebel League" to see what was what.
To sum it up, Skalbania was losing money with the Racers before Gretzky was signed. They were averaging 5000 fans per game in 1978-79, 3k less than the season before. To help improve attendence, he signed Gretzky. That didn't really work, so he sold Gretzky, Eddied Mio and Peter Driscoll for $850,000 and Skalbania renouncing the right to reacquire an ownership stake in the Oilers in the event of the team joining the NHL.
With Gretzky gone, the Racers signed another 17 year-old, Mark Messier. He played 5 games, didn't score a point, and was released and signed by Cincinnati, where he finished the year.
Even with that extra money from the Gretzky trade/sale, the Racers folded after another 17 games, December 15, 1978.
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
Caron, the future GM of the Blues, was the Habs head of scouting. According to him, the Habs thought they needed a big top line center (later, when Wick wasn't panning out as planned, they went out and got Bobby Smith). Ironically, they thought they already had a future french Canadian high scoring center in their prospect pool, who happened to be lighting it up in the Q at the time, and like Savard, on the smaller size. His name Guy Carbonneau, who contrary to Caron's evaluation, would not become an offensive force, but actually one of the finest defensive forwards I've ever seen. They thought Savard wouldn't fit a need as well as Wickenheiser did.
Another Guy Carbonneau story. Lafleur was so impressed with the offensive abilities of Carbonneau, he proposed to management and the coaching staff to put together a line of Carbonneau, Naslund and Lafleur. Savard/Berry said no. I wonder how history would be different if they had taken Lafleur's advise?
At the end of the day, the Habs took the big guy from the WHL who had 170pts, rather than the small QMJHL guy who got 180pts. I think most drafts, people would be way more impressed with the big WHL getting 170pts.
Just wondering why nobody gives the Jets grief for taking Babych, instead of Coffey or Murphy?
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Jumptheshark
Rebooting myself
Sadly I show my age here
Going into the draft
Wickenheiser was compared to Gretzky and there was a lot of ink saying that Dougy was going to be better then Wayne
Going into the draft
Wickenheiser was compared to Gretzky and there was a lot of ink saying that Dougy was going to be better then Wayne
I recall how the haBs fired everyone and then hired savard in 83 to be there gm
is the savard selection why caron never got the job as les canadiens gm?
is the savard selection why caron never got the job as les canadiens gm?
Psycho Papa Joe
Porkchop Hoser
Savard and Caron remained close once Caron joined the Blues as GM, and had alot of deals with one another, so I don't think there was any bad blood and Caron was never a candidate. Actually nobody was a candidate other than Savard according to Corey.
Wickenheiser has to be the unluckiest player in the history of the sport.
Goes to Montreal as the #1 overall pick to play for a coach that hates him because he wanted Savard and a fanbase that treats him like crap and basically runs him out of town.
Is just starting to turn his career around in St. Louis - and is on pace for a 30-goal season - when he falls out of a truck during the rookie 'snipe hunt' and destroys his knee, and is never close to the same player again.
Then, of course, develops cancer and is dead before the age of 40.
Such a sad story to happen to a guy who it seems pretty much everyone agreed was one of the nicest, classiest people you'd ever meet.
Goes to Montreal as the #1 overall pick to play for a coach that hates him because he wanted Savard and a fanbase that treats him like crap and basically runs him out of town.
Is just starting to turn his career around in St. Louis - and is on pace for a 30-goal season - when he falls out of a truck during the rookie 'snipe hunt' and destroys his knee, and is never close to the same player again.
Then, of course, develops cancer and is dead before the age of 40.
Such a sad story to happen to a guy who it seems pretty much everyone agreed was one of the nicest, classiest people you'd ever meet.
very interesting responses
I find it hard to believe that the firey caron didn't want the #1 job in hockey outside of leafs nation
I find it hard to believe that the firey caron didn't want the #1 job in hockey outside of leafs nation
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