Satellite (and cable) death spiral

unknownbrother

Registered User
Apr 1, 2015
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The Karen Murphy case in the UK wouldn't apply here in North America, as the UK High Court had to go to the European Court for clarification, and the European Court had intra-country market rules and copyrights to consider.

Just as well that I an English living in England then.

But I do feel if it ever did come to it this case could be referenced in North America in a similar way to the potential of North American governments looking at adopting something similar to the EU's Article 13 if it's a "success" for the big businesses that want it implemented.
 

Grudy0

Registered User
Mar 16, 2011
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Maryland
But in the UK, if there is a no-deal Brexit, the EU's Article 13 will no longer apply and it would then likely be illegal to receive signals from a non-UK service provider.

The Murphy case turned out to be a hollow victory anyways. Upon the ruling, the FAPL and its broadcasters maximized the amount of copyright protections so that the matches still couldn't be shown in pubs without paying for the copyright fees.
 

Grudy0

Registered User
Mar 16, 2011
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Maryland
Breaking this post into more manageable replies:
I do agree that in a sense it's a little more complicated than just cable companies unilaterally screwing people over. My understanding is that the blackout policy begins with the league, which wants to force people into either buying a ticket or paying for media rights to its broadcast. To force the consumer's hand, the league negotiates blackouts as part of their exclusive contract with the regional TV network. In turn, the network works the logistics of that agreement into their exclusive contract with cable providers.
The "blackout" policy is a bit different than that. Each team in the league is given a home-market territory, negotiated by each team and the league. So when Vegas started up, Vegas and the League carved out the home territory for the Golden Knights. Conversely, when the Thrashers ended up in Winnipeg the League and the new Jets created the home market for Winnipeg, and adjusted the home markets of the Nashville Predators and the Carolina Hurricanes to include the area vacated by the Thrashers.

It is at that point that a given team contracts with a local broadcasting outlet to provide games. And the given team has the right - as well as the local broadcaster - to be the exclusive carrier of said games within the territory.

The issue that people are having is that this would all be fine if the cable providers were providing an a la carte option for access to that channel. A lot of people would be absolutely 100% OK with paying $10-$20 a month for a single channel, or even a small package of channels, so that they could access that exclusive broadcast. There is a huge market for this.
But what if the MVPD's, the cable and satellite providers cannot make that offer? It's the next point...
But, knowing that they have entire sports fanbases up against a wall, cable companies refuse to offer that product. Instead, they take the sports product and roll it into a huge package of channels -- many of them useless QVC-style garbage -- and give the consumer no option but to go that route. And they double down on that by structuring the bundles so that the consumer is given little option but to also use the cable company for internet access as well. As a result, the consumer who simply wanted to watch one show is now using the cable company for virtually all of their digital media. And there's no way out of the trap, unless you're willing to either stop watching your favorite team... or to watch pirated content.
One of the two major satellite providers, Dish, is now in a dispute with the regional Fox Sports Networks. The 21 Regional Sports Networks have been off Dish for three weeks. One of the reasons is that Dish wants to move the Fox Sports Networks out of some of their packages. The Fox Sports Networks do not want this.

It's easier to blame the cable and satellite company for the packaging of channels when the channels are the parties trying to dictate what package their channels should be placed.
Needless to say, this arrangement never favors the consumer. It is anti-competitive, artificially inflates sales for worthless content, and forces consumers to spend their money inefficiently for a low-quality product. The sheer market-inappropriateness of this model is being brought to the surface by cable companies getting absolutely killed as soon as people had the option to directly stream other services, including pirated products but also including legitimate products which were both higher quality AND lower cost than a cable package. By all rights cable companies should be dead already... they're hanging on by squeezing their remaining customer base into a particularly exploitative model.
No, it's more like what I'll call the Wild-Wild-West syndrome. Cablers had a monopoly until the launch of DirecTV in the mid-1990's, and Dish came along a little later. Those satcasters went from 0 customers in 1993 to over 25 million combined not 20 years later. That was the wild-wild-west of competition.

Cablers then started their bundling of internet, phone and programming services in the mid-200's. That allowed cablers an advantage over the satcasting services, who could not provide phone nor internet. That stemmed some of the losses the cablers had been taking on since competition with the satcasters.

Now it's streaming that's the wild-wild-west. I personally believe that in the long run the streaming of services will degrade the quality of programming due to losses in revenues from existing programmers and at some point there will be about four or five major players in streaming and most people will need two or three services in order to get what they want, paying more than what the standard cable bundle would be.

The services from the MVPD's will evolve, just like newspapers, radio, television, cable and now internet streaming will.
I have little faith in a positive outcome, but one can always hope. It's very clear that the entire system, from the sports league to the local franchise to the TV network to the cable company, all operates as a quasi-monopoly, which is what led us to this place.
The NHL was involved in a similar lawsuit about six years ago. You do have a point - the positive outcome from that was a single-team only option for Center Ice became available, but it still didn't address the issue when that team plays a game in your home market, as you'd be forced to watch the local broadcast instead of the Center Ice broadcast, aka the dreaded "blackout".
 
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rojac

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Apr 5, 2007
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It says “livestream out-of-market games”. If I live in Toronto, it looks like I won’t get Leaf games (I assume those are “in-market”)?

Based on what I’m reading, I’d need to buy Rogers NHL live + TSN + Sportsnet to see every Leafs game.

Screw that. Much better to get Centre Ice (if that still exists) and use a VPN. Or straight up pirate everything.

If you live in Toronto, all Leaf games are on TSN, Sportsnet, and CBC.

And just to clarify, the Centre Ice product is a product for cable and satellite companies to sell to their customers (Rogers includes it in their Super Sports Pack). It is a TV product and your cable/satellite provider actually determines the available games based on your region. You cannot use a VPN with this.

Rogers NHL Live is the Internet streaming product. You can use a VPN with this.
 

Stand Witness

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Oct 25, 2014
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NHL has the potential to be an industry leader and move a portion of their content to a streaming service (Netflix etc...)

Will it happen? No because the NHL is awful with its marketing. But it would probably be a smart move if they at least packaged a "Wednesday Night Rivalry" game to a streaming service.

I would love to find a way to cord cut and still get the quality of streams I want for Leaf games. Unfortunately, I just can't seem to find a way to get the quality that I want on my TV currently.
 

Kaners PPGs

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
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However, how does a streaming service that caters to the sports viewer not carry ESPN? My second favorite sport after hockey is college football. So much for that idea....

I specifically wanted a service that DID NOT have ESPN. They are the most expensive non-premium channel and I am not a fan of the sports they cater to. Sling Orange gives me local NBC Sports for the majority of Blackhawk games. The rest of the NBC Sports gives me national hockey games and all of the playoffs. The only other sports I closely follow are Nascar and cycling and Sling Orange provides all of that through Fox and NBC Sports. I also get the NHL Package to stream games but I could do without it. My kids are happy with Netflix and their tablets. I have cut my monthly bill by $70.
 

Pilky01

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Jan 30, 2012
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Anybody else having a terrible time with DAZN streaming this weekend?

All the Premiership today has been choppy as hell. I’m tempted to cancel my subscription before I get billed after the free month. This is almost unwatchable. It’s buffering at least once every 30 seconds and quality is nosediving regularly.
 

YEM

Registered User
Mar 7, 2010
5,718
2,697
@Pilky01 Heard something similar from a buddy today re: dazn, that sucks.

I just moved-there’s probably a post in this thread about me looking fwd to cutting the cord. But I didn’t, largely because I would experience virtually no savings with just internet + streaming services vs. a triple play option ($100 a month).
 

Lions67

Registered User
Mar 6, 2018
505
604
Winnipeg
Anybody else having a terrible time with DAZN streaming this weekend?

All the Premiership today has been choppy as hell. I’m tempted to cancel my subscription before I get billed after the free month. This is almost unwatchable. It’s buffering at least once every 30 seconds and quality is nosediving regularly.

Cancel it.
Take the plunge!!
 

b1e9a8r5s

Registered User
Feb 16, 2015
12,904
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Chicago, IL
So it sounds like the Star Wars show that will be on disney+ will be released once a week instead of a season dump. I know there were some discussion about weather anyone would do that earlier in the thread. This is probably a unique situation that they know will have a huge audience so they can afford to let it build and allow all the content that surrounds the show (articles, podcasts, etc) to be free marketing for them. Disney also has the advantage of having a very big and noteworthy catalog from the start, so they aren't just trying to upload content to build out the library as much as Netflix was.
 

oknazevad

Registered User
Dec 12, 2018
470
330
So it sounds like the Star Wars show that will be on disney+ will be released once a week instead of a season dump. I know there were some discussion about weather anyone would do that earlier in the thread. This is probably a unique situation that they know will have a huge audience so they can afford to let it build and allow all the content that surrounds the show (articles, podcasts, etc) to be free marketing for them. Disney also has the advantage of having a very big and noteworthy catalog from the start, so they aren't just trying to upload content to build out the library as much as Netflix was.
That's what CBS All Access does with Star Trek: Discovery, The Twilight Zone and other exclusive series (and will be doing with the upcoming Picard series). It seems to be working for them, as Discovery is the second-most streaked series in the country behind only Stranger Things.
 

AtlantaWhaler

Thrash/Preds/Sabres
Jul 3, 2009
19,693
2,911
It's really starting to evolve at a rapid pace, for better or worse.
Better...we're already seeing some good deals like Disney.
Worse...in many cases, it's confusing trying to figure out where to watch something like the Braves game yesterday or the GT/Clemson game on Thursday.
 

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