Saskatchewan Minor Hockey Thread II

[nah68]

I don't think people realize this, or want to realize it, but Sask Valley will not be as strong next year as they are this year. The forward group this year, and goaltending is much stronger than it will be next year. The defence will improve next year but they are not going to get stronger next year. And look at their pee wee team, .500. Not much to look forward to if we are expecting top end. Pillar and Saleski will have to carry the team next year.

Doubt that those 2 can carry the team, word is saleski is moving to the city, so I'm thinking maybe he bailed knowing what was in store for the split teams.

 

[TitanJofaDaoust]

Kids moving to play on stronger teams, parity, competitive advantage etc. etc. rinse, repeat..

In my opinion there is only one solution: AAA Bantam (heaven forbid)

But... Awfully difficult to have your 14 year old son move away to play hockey, live in a city, go to a new school etc. etc.

Sask is big, really big. Its also sparsely populated and therefore the variance in talent from one year to the next is magnified many many times because 'strong' years and 'weak' years are so obvious. Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto do not have this type of swing - we do - get over it.

My solution: Leave everything alone. There will always be those families that bend/break the rules to get on a team. We have great hockey people all over the province. SHA does a great job despite the warts - but its the same everywhere. Sports and kids and competition is a passionate business, overly emotional and generational - a nasty combination that invites opinionated forums!

Setting up an 'us vs them' or 'rural vs city' mentality in a small province is likely unavoidable. But - stop it anyways - conspiracy does not exist in Sask! However, what makes us strong also makes us weak... Sask is very unlikely to compete at western championships or 'team sask' events unless its a 'strong' year. Too many on this forum point to coaching or SHA as having a HUGE effect on development. They don't. Practice, practice, and more practice is the secret. Back in our day it was shinny, shinny and more shinny - less organization, more fun, more play, more freedom. Gretzky wasn't a generational talent because he had amazing coaches. Crosby shot pucks in the basement until his hands bled - practice. Rural kids with easy access to rinks and shinny often develop much quicker than city kids. However, when comparing to a large city the numbers of kids start to equalize the naturally gifted kids in the city to the rural kids.

Nothing is wrong. Sask will always be what it always has been. Strong families with strong values encouraging work ethic and sacrifice despite rural/city allegiance. Most have dual ties anyways.

So quit the blaming and start enjoying what we have. Merry Christmas.

 

[nah68]

Kids moving to play on stronger teams, parity, competitive advantage etc. etc. rinse, repeat..

In my opinion there is only one solution: AAA Bantam (heaven forbid)

But... Awfully difficult to have your 14 year old son move away to play hockey, live in a city, go to a new school etc. etc.

Sask is big, really big. Its also sparsely populated and therefore the variance in talent from one year to the next is magnified many many times because 'strong' years and 'weak' years are so obvious. Calgary, Vancouver, Toronto do not have this type of swing - we do - get over it.

My solution: Leave everything alone. There will always be those families that bend/break the rules to get on a team. We have great hockey people all over the province. SHA does a great job despite the warts - but its the same everywhere. Sports and kids and competition is a passionate business, overly emotional and generational - a nasty combination that invites opinionated forums!

Setting up an 'us vs them' or 'rural vs city' mentality in a small province is likely unavoidable. But - stop it anyways - conspiracy does not exist in Sask! However, what makes us strong also makes us weak... Sask is very unlikely to compete at western championships or 'team sask' events unless its a 'strong' year. Too many on this forum point to coaching or SHA as having a HUGE effect on development. They don't. Practice, practice, and more practice is the secret. Back in our day it was shinny, shinny and more shinny - less organization, more fun, more play, more freedom. Gretzky wasn't a generational talent because he had amazing coaches. Crosby shot pucks in the basement until his hands bled - practice. Rural kids with easy access to rinks and shinny often develop much quicker than city kids. However, when comparing to a large city the numbers of kids start to equalize the naturally gifted kids in the city to the rural kids.

Nothing is wrong. Sask will always be what it always has been. Strong families with strong values encouraging work ethic and sacrifice despite rural/city allegiance. Most have dual ties anyways.

So quit the blaming and start enjoying what we have. Merry Christmas.

It's great that you took the time to post how we shouldn't have a say in a system were we are treated like crap. It's O.K for things to continue behind closed doors in the offices of Regina(SHA), and we are not allowed to have a say or complain about it if the system doesn't work for me! Hmm, I thought we lived in a democratic society where when you didn't do your job to the likeness of the voters you were turfed. Well that does not pertain to SHA, they shove things down our throats on a consistent basis. They design rules and regulations behind closed doors that I really can't figure out. They are a GOVERNING body of hockey in Sask......Not a COMMUNIST one. When we have concerns they should be looked at, not scoffed at, hence the reason I post on this forum to relieve some of the frustration I feel about certain things. Ask people about sask first experience....not about winning or how they were coached, but how there kids were treated by a governing body that promotes fairness and equality. Not perfect.....no your right. But to be happy about it and sit idle and do nothing.....that's too much to ask.

 

[TitanJofaDaoust]

It's great that you took the time to post how we shouldn't have a say in a system were we are treated like crap. It's O.K for things to continue behind closed doors in the offices of Regina(SHA), and we are not allowed to have a say or complain about it if the system doesn't work for me! Hmm, I thought we lived in a democratic society where when you didn't do your job to the likeness of the voters you were turfed. Well that does not pertain to SHA, they shove things down our throats on a consistent basis. They design rules and regulations behind closed doors that I really can't figure out. They are a GOVERNING body of hockey in Sask......Not a COMMUNIST one. When we have concerns they should be looked at, not scoffed at, hence the reason I post on this forum to relieve some of the frustration I feel about certain things. Ask people about sask first experience....not about winning or how they were coached, but how there kids were treated by a governing body that promotes fairness and equality. Not perfect.....no your right. But to be happy about it and sit idle and do nothing.....that's too much to ask.

Can you be specific? How have you been treated like 'crap'? Communism? You're being laughed at? Which rules/regulations? What's being shoved down your throat? You mention 'things' several times.. what 'things' ?

I truly don't understand your concerns..

 

[nah68]

Can you be specific? How have you been treated like 'crap'? Communism? You're being laughed at? Which rules/regulations? What's being shoved down your throat? You mention 'things' several times.. what 'things' ?

I truly don't understand your concerns..

Treated like crap?
Phone SHA and have a conversation with any of the staff about a genuine concern about a problem you have....see how you get treated then let me know.
Communisn?
Break up center four league to build a new one under there new ideas. Like saying we need a new better league so we can compete in westerns. I didn't want this new league when it was set up. And a lot of people in Sask didn't want it either especially people in Meadow lake and Laronge.....but doesn't affect you so who cares right? But tow the line cause its better for Sask hockey!

Being laughed at?
By you maybe.....keep laughing don't care!

Whats being shoved down our throat?
Lets see...regulating spring hockey, sask first BS, splitting teams for no reason, disbanding leagues to benefit who? Forcefully implementing rules for closest center by the way crow flies when we use the highway. Need some more yet????

Seems to me your happy good for you, cause you live in the city where smha has as much clout with designing rules that protect your city, that's nice, maybe one day you'll understand what happens outside the city limits. Your clueless.

By the way. ask about sask first, about how sha implements fair play and kids needing summers off from the game. There is no fair play in sask first and they run there camps through summer.

 

[nah68]

The sha tournament has always been held in regina, I asked why they told me it was the "hub" of hockey in sask! The center and the hub was the direct statement! A kid from meadow would be driving 6 frigen hours! Why no the center of the province like Saskatoon. But that would mean regina would have to travel. Kids participating in sask first u16 were put through a extra 7 hours of travel cause it was the rule to drive bus!!! Holy.....didn't realize we had pros at 15 that are so regulated. You can't practice with a spring team even during holidays, wth!!!! My kid, if they start paying for him to play they can regulate without me having a say. Til then I think I or we should have a voice.

 

[TitanJofaDaoust]

I agree on the following:

- Sask First tournies should move throughout the province
- I didn't want provincial league either
- Using 'crow flies' to determine closest to centre

I disagree:

- I'm clueless.. not sure where the sarcasm, insults come from with you sometimes.. you must be an unhappy dude..
- Spring hockey should be regulated.. thank God it is.. Spring hockey has become the wild wild west of hockey and represents all that is wrong with youth hockey
- I don't believe Sask First has published 'fair-play' for elite events

 

[nah68]

I agree on the following:

- Sask First tournies should move throughout the province
- I didn't want provincial league either
- Using 'crow flies' to determine closest to centre

I disagree:

- I'm clueless.. not sure where the sarcasm, insults come from with you sometimes.. you must be an unhappy dude..
- Spring hockey should be regulated.. thank God it is.. Spring hockey has become the wild wild west of hockey and represents all that is wrong with youth hockey
- I don't believe Sask First has published 'fair-play' for elite events

Geez didn't really think the your being laughed at comment was necessary....I made the comment more in response to that. But honestly your from the city right? Have you ever been involved with small community hockey? I have and a lot of times are kids aren't treated fairly. Will I give you precise evidence....no. I'm not doing that anymore, I make a statement and I get called out constantly by other posters such as you, Dickie and sask rink rat. And even though I don't agree with a lot of what they say, I do agree with more of there points than disagree. But it does seem that we do get laughed at(me) cause you don't understand what we go through sometimes for our kids to enjoy the game. Am I happy, actually very, but refuse to be pushed around without saying a thing.

You realize that the sv vipers are being disbanded by Sha, not the league. Why? Before when the city wanted to go down to four they needed league approval, now that's changed. It's fairly well known, but not documented of course that the cities lodged a complaint about both ps and sv. Why would that be? Is it a conspiracy theory by the cities? Maybe not, but it's very odd when you listen to those involved as to the amount of complaints lodged by saskatoon and regina residents about those 2 teams. What bothers me is instead of worrying about the business of what happens within there own association they have pushed sha into a corner to please urban response. That is true, it unfortunate but true. Like I said before I posted earlier about allowing city into League with 4 teams to compete, I would think that would show you I'm actually genuine about fairness. No you are wrong about fairness in sask first.....the whole program is set up on equality and fairness. That's changed by a few guys in the power to run that program. Hiring whl coaches to run a u16 program when we have enough qualified guys within our bantam and midget programs.
I'm choosing to remove myself from this forum, I'm sure it will please a lot of the posters but have realized it's time to move on.

 

[Superbowlfishca]

SHA & Bantam League

First off NAH like your posts. Don't always agree,and you don't always agree with mine but love the candor and honesty you bring to this forum. Sorry to see you go. These forums should always be about bringing opinions to the table.

Second the Bantam league and Midget AAA leagues are the most important high performance development leagues in the province and SHA must take an active role in formulating policy that drives these leagues to do the best job of developing the best out of our young hockey players.

My opinion both are doing a pretty good job in the status quo. I have posted many times with opinions of tweeking I would like to see to help the Bantam league. A AAA model will not work in SK because our population base is too spread out over a too wide area of the province. Humbolt(good to see their result this year but the Barlage factor may be an aberration), West Central, and MJ need help. Cities should be fine with shrinkage that has occurred. SV and PS do have a systemic advantage but not sure how to cure this problem because expanding to two teams cripples the programs. I would like to see a redraw of their boundries across to other teams. For example maybe give Lumsden to MJ.

My opinion the SK First program does and has done a good job of identifying the 15 - 20 best players in our province. There will always be debate when trying to identify the bottom 4 or five picks and there will always be politics involved in these decisions. We have to realize that this happens in all the other provinces also.
Our development is falling behind MB so SHA needs to try to identify why?(which most likely they have examined and will continue to examine). Quick fix for me would be to focus on goaltending.
In talking to a lot of the parents of kids who participated this year there was huge politics involved in how the coaching played the kids at U16 Westerns. I did not see that at Canada Winter Games last year but I know of lots of parents who where extremely disappointed in the way the team was coached and would be diametrically opposed to my opinion on this.
SO in my opinion SHA can fix this by doing a better job of informing parents and the kids on what to expect going into the tournament. Parents need to understand that the coaches have a win at all cost mentality and have carte blanche ability to play who they want when they want. Does SHA want this?? because everything I see from coaching is, that is the way it is. Just be honest with people and then some of the problems will go away. In other words lay out the parameters and then have the coaches meet those parameters and expectations.

 

[hockeyviewer]

This might spark some debate on here. I have heard SHA is going to mandate all initiation hockey to go to half ice games. I see this as a problem in smaller centers. Why be forced to use only half ice when the other half will not be used. Initiation is all about learning to skate and handle the puck. If all kids are jammed together a kid will never be able to carry it more than 10 feet while skating. I can see where it may be needed in centers where there are lots of initiation players and limited ice but don't force those that don't have those issues to reduce ice size and skating area for kids

 

[SaskRinkRat]

This might spark some debate on here. I have heard SHA is going to mandate all initiation hockey to go to half ice games. I see this as a problem in smaller centers. Why be forced to use only half ice when the other half will not be used. Initiation is all about learning to skate and handle the puck. If all kids are jammed together a kid will never be able to carry it more than 10 feet while skating. I can see where it may be needed in centers where there are lots of initiation players and limited ice but don't force those that don't have those issues to reduce ice size and skating area for kids

Small areas are just flat out better for developing hockey players, especially young players. Next time you watch an initiation group play a game on full ice, watch how much of the ice they're taking up. There is almost never a time where all 10 players are taking up even one fifth of the ice surface.

 

[hockeyviewer]

I watched two initiation teams play 2 games this weekend one on full ice and one on half. In the game on half ice no player carried the puck for more than 10 feet and like you said all of the kids stayed in one group and just swung at the puck and when puck came free the was little room to handle puck. In the full ice game there was still some bunching up but when the puck came free once in a while a player could get it and then skate and handle the puck (pick handling development)for quite a ways the rest if kids all skated hard for the whole length of ice (skating development). If cities have to go to half ice in order to get enough ice time let them do it just don't force rural areas to do this when half their ice won't get used.

 

[SaskRinkRat]

I watched two initiation teams play 2 games this weekend one on full ice and one on half. In the game on half ice no player carried the puck for more than 10 feet and like you said all of the kids stayed in one group and just swung at the puck and when puck came free the was little room to handle puck. In the full ice game there was still some bunching up but when the puck came free once in a while a player could get it and then skate and handle the puck (pick handling development)for quite a ways the rest if kids all skated hard for the whole length of ice (skating development). If cities have to go to half ice in order to get enough ice time let them do it just don't force rural areas to do this when half their ice won't get used.

There's a really good video from USA hockey where they quantify how much better it is to play cross ice than full ice:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB_Ygapyl7c

 

[northernwanderer]

I watched two initiation teams play 2 games this weekend one on full ice and one on half. In the game on half ice no player carried the puck for more than 10 feet and like you said all of the kids stayed in one group and just swung at the puck and when puck came free the was little room to handle puck. In the full ice game there was still some bunching up but when the puck came free once in a while a player could get it and then skate and handle the puck (pick handling development)for quite a ways the rest if kids all skated hard for the whole length of ice (skating development). If cities have to go to half ice in order to get enough ice time let them do it just don't force rural areas to do this when half their ice won't get used.

How did that one player skating the whole length of the ice without passing the puck develop the other players though? Too often this is the case at initiation and is what they are trying to avoid. In Europe they play three cross ice games on one rink at a time. Smaller teams, more ice time, more skill development. Is it the answer in Canada? Who knows, but it may be worth a shot. Lots of talk about Canadian hockey plateauing and the rest of the world catching up or passing us. I agree, its not practical to have half a sheet of ice being unused in rural Sask, but why not use that ice for a novice practice at the same time? lots of rinks have dividers now and this could easily be done.

 

[northernwanderer]

provincial quarter finals set

watched a lot of hockey around saskatoon this weekend. lots of good games and the north is anybodies game. was surprised to hear that the generals lost out but good for north east. i still think sk vally and humboldt will be in the north final and i don't think anyone will touch yorkton in the south. anyone disagree?

 

[Franksredhot]

Playoffs SBAAHL

Who really cares about Bantam Hockey is Saskatchewan?? Obviously not SHA! Lets see.... give Saskatoon 4 teams to strengthen and then split SV next year to weaken the league. Makes so sense. My kid played for a Saskatoon team and had to play to his best every night no matter who he was playing. Next year with 2 weak teams in Sask Valley, how is that making players better. I heard its being pushed by Warman hockey people who have personal agendas.... Shame on SHA for buying in

 

[northernwanderer]

Franks, you really came in hot with one of your first posts. sadly, being around the area and watching this team over the past couple years and seeing the improvement with how the saskatoon teams look at 4 instead of 5, i think sha is taking a huge step back. and as for hidden agenda, sadly everyone has heard that rumour. the thing that really baffles me is that no one with WMHA has done anything to stop it, ask for removal, etc which tells me they agree with what he is doing. in past years we would all blame saskatoon for this because of the SV and saskatoon rivalry but this is far from it. saskatoon teams have had their eyes opened with the better competition, no one wants that competition to leave. its a shame. the really sad thing is going to be watching westerns next year and seeing teams put up 10+ daily against warman

 

[SaskRinkRat]

Is that a final decision? For Sask Valley to split?

 

[svhockey]

Who really cares about Bantam Hockey is Saskatchewan?? Obviously not SHA! Lets see.... give Saskatoon 4 teams to strengthen and then split SV next year to weaken the league. Makes so sense. My kid played for a Saskatoon team and had to play to his best every night no matter who he was playing. Next year with 2 weak teams in Sask Valley, how is that making players better. I heard its being pushed by Warman hockey people who have personal agendas.... Shame on SHA for buying in

He had to play his best every night to beat Melville, Notre Dame, Swift and West Central? I doubt it.
As for hearing that Warman is pushing it, I heard that some Saskatoon parents are pushing it because they are tired of always losing out to SV and Warman. I guess anyone can hear anything they want to hear.
Martensville and Warman have a population of over 10,000 each and still growing rapidly. They are each twice as big as Humboldt and Melville and four times as big when you combine Warman and Martensville. I am sure those two centers will be fine and like anywhere will have its up and down years. Humbodt had 3 wins four years ago, then 3 again the next year, then 14, 17 an 22 this year and likely a big drop next year. I like the idea of keeping the Vipers together but don't think it is the end of the world for sask valley hockey if the province votes to split them up either.

 

[PowerHourIce]

No matter in the big picture...

Winnipeg will have a BAAA(A really - because thats what it is) team in the sport school league and ND about to jump in, someone in Saskatoon is what a year out and it's all over for elite community run bantam hockey in SK anyway. Add to that the just ok performance of the midget team relative to the other provinces and midgets are heading there too with Manitoba. Two years and CSSHL will be winning that tourney all the time too just like their bantams are dominating.

 

[northernwanderer]

He had to play his best every night to beat Melville, Notre Dame, Swift and West Central? I doubt it.
As for hearing that Warman is pushing it, I heard that some Saskatoon parents are pushing it because they are tired of always losing out to SV and Warman. I guess anyone can hear anything they want to hear.
Martensville and Warman have a population of over 10,000 each and still growing rapidly. They are each twice as big as Humboldt and Melville and four times as big when you combine Warman and Martensville. I am sure those two centers will be fine and like anywhere will have its up and down years. Humbodt had 3 wins four years ago, then 3 again the next year, then 14, 17 an 22 this year and likely a big drop next year. I like the idea of keeping the Vipers together but don't think it is the end of the world for sask valley hockey if the province votes to split them up either.

by logic of just comparing numbers in your city this would mean that saskatoon should have 20 teams because they have over 200,000 people. the problem with splitting up SV is that the province is slowly going back to having more and more teams, and thinning out the competition across the province. Saskatoon has enjoyed moving down to four teams because it increased the level of competition greatly in the north and from the people i have spoken to they are now against sv splitting up. they have seen the great competition and have enjoyed it so why take it away? Lets not compare Notre Dame in this as they are an entirely different situation. west central this year had ten ties when you look at the standings. this shows that they are competing, unfortunately they came up short in most of those for wins but, they are competing. i can't talk about the other centres because i don't know what their numbers are, but why continue to thin out the province because some centres are struggling? why not make the game better by rezoning, or combining centres. after seeing the improved game out of saskatoon it would be a step back to add teams again.

 

[lefthook]

Not adding a team , Melville out and SV split was the proposal I was told ? dont know for sure so dont get mad at me , just telling you what the rumor is

 

[Superbowlfishca]

Melville OUT!

If this is done lets just declare Yorkton the SBAAHL winner for the next bunch of years unless their boundary gets redrawn. This team has never finished with a losing record in 5 years and will most likely be league champs the last two years.

If they split SV and drop Melville basically a split of Yorkton will have to result also.

Melville out also helps Prairie Storm which will have to be split.

 

[Northwestcott]

SHA has made the recommendation that Melville keep both their Peewee AA and Bantam AA programs on an annual review but to remove Meadow Lake from C4 Peewee AA. They are also recommending SV be split. These recommendations will be taken to the zone meetings this month and voted on.

 

[northernwanderer]

Superbowlfish is absolutely correct in stating how much getting rid of melville would help yorkton and balgonie. I doubt this recommendation would be made this early as last year melville actually fielded a team that competed most nights. This year is definitely a tough one for them but their pee wee program did not bad this year and a strong hockey community that should be competitive again down the road. removing meadow lake is smart as it just is becoming a painful endeavour for everyone involved. so yes, we will be adding a team to the league, and frankly i see warman do ok, and martensville finish last in the north. if you look at sask valleys game sheets there is not one ap who played on the martensville team, and you'd have to imagine they will have a lot of first years next year. westerns will not be fun for either team on their own.