Salary Cap: Saros and Fabbro file for Arbitration

nine_inch_fang

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I think you could be right but he won’t be a starter his first NHL season. He’ll play one season as a backup likely split one season too
Agreed. That's also why I think Saros gets a 5 year deal. Askarov will back him up in the fourth year then depending on performance the fifth year of the deal could be a split.
Now that I type that out, if you meant he wouldn't be a #1 starter for 6 years I 100% agree with that thought process. I was just talking about him being on the team in 4 years.
 
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Legionnaire11

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Recent highly touted (1st, early 2nd) selections...

2021 - Sebastian Cossa -
2021 - Jesper Wallstedt -
2020 - Iaroslav Askarov -
2019 - Spencer Knight - Debuted D+2
2018 - Olof Lindblom -
2017 - Jake Oettinger - Debuted D+3
2016 - Carter Hart - Debuted D+3
2015 - Ilya Samsonov - Debuted D+5
2015 - MacKenzie Blackwood - Debuted D+4
2014 - Thatcher Demko - Debuted D+4
2014 - Alex Nedeljkovic - Debuted D+3
2013 - Zach Fucale -
2013 - Tristan Jarry - Debuted D+4
2012 - Andrei Vasilevskiy - D+3
2012 - Oscar Dansk - Debuted D+6
2012 - Anthony Stolarz - Debuted D+5
2011 - Magnus Hellberg - Debuted D+3

And I'd say only Knight and Vasilevskiy, perhaps Oettinger had anything close to the hype that Askarov had. If he's the real deal, D+4 is an extremely realistic expectation, probably should be D+3. Also feels like in the last 6-7 years, goalie scouting has gotten much better.
 
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vipera1960

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I don’t get the fuss. Any arbitration eligible player should file. There are only two mechanisms for RFAs to get a decent contract: arbitration and offer sheet, and as we all know, offer sheet is not an effective way to obtain players.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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Yeah, there is zero "fuss" going on here.

But I also think it's inherently against a players' interests most times to file for arbitration. Fewer than 10% of eligible players file, for good reason. And that reason is that the ideal resolution to these situations is for a player and team to want to work together to mutual benefit, and to negotiate a fair market contract in the first place. And the vast majority of time, that happens.

Handing the process over to an independent arbitrator indicates that the process was broken. Perhaps the player wants too much, perhaps the team is offering too little, both of those things are a matter of subjective perception, but either way if that happens something has gone wrong. One side or the other has been aggrieved by the negotiation process to that point, and the longer term future union of the two parties is placed at some degree of risk because at the end of the arbitration path only a 1- or 2-year contract is chosen.

Of course you can say that the players who file may have no ultimate intention of going all the way through to a hearing, and that filing is merely a tool to add urgency to negotiations so that both sides reach a contract agreement, possibly even a long-term one, before the hearing. For most players who file, that's what happens. And yet, the vast majority of restricted free agency cases are resolved without ever even starting down that path.
 
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Porter Stoutheart

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I don’t get the fuss. Any arbitration eligible player should file. There are only two mechanisms for RFAs to get a decent contract: arbitration and offer sheet, and as we all know, offer sheet is not an effective way to obtain players.
Hardly... the primary mechanism is that the two sides sit down and negotiate a decent contract. That's the way the vast majority of cases are handled. Only a small minority of cases go to arbitration, and then a much tinier number go to offer sheet.
 

OldFan

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The arbitration process is an approved process in the CBA. It was negotiated and agreed to by the players and the owners to protect both parties in case of impasse. All parties would probably agree that the preferred route to a new contract would be for both parties to sit down together and come up with an agreement without invoking the arbitration process. But, as has been pointed out, sometimes players make unreasonable requests and clubs make unreasonable offers. Not all franchises are Nashville. And the negotiations may get harsh. And some players just plain overestimate their value. Hence the need for the process. Neither party should be surprised when the other reserves the right to invoke the process at a later date. That date of notification is also an agreed to date by the parties. Feelings may be hurt but it is a necessary process.
 

Porter Stoutheart

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The arbitration process is an approved process in the CBA. It was negotiated and agreed to by the players and the owners to protect both parties in case of impasse. All parties would probably agree that the preferred route to a new contract would be for both parties to sit down together and come up with an agreement without invoking the arbitration process. But, as has been pointed out, sometimes players make unreasonable requests and clubs make unreasonable offers. Not all franchises are Nashville. And the negotiations may get harsh. And some players just plain overestimate their value. Hence the need for the process. Neither party should be surprised when the other reserves the right to invoke the process at a later date. That date of notification is also an agreed to date by the parties. Feelings may be hurt but it is a necessary process.
It is definitely a necessary process. I just question that it should be considered desirable for any party on either side to end up going down that road. You have to have the road. But everybody's goal beforehand should be to avoid using it.
 

OldFan

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It is definitely a necessary process. I just question that it should be considered desirable for any party on either side to end up going down that road. You have to have the road. But everybody's goal beforehand should be to avoid using it.
Yep, everybody should.
 

weeze

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I do believe reading over the past many years where GMDP would low ball a player and feelings would get hurt in the process due to that perceived dollar amount the Preds offered. Yes typically the player asks for more than they should actually get and the team offers less than what the player should get and meet in the middle. Sometimes when you think you are worth more than the people who are paying you, and we are talking millions sometimes, that can be a hard pill to swallow.
 

PredsV82

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I do believe reading over the past many years where GMDP would low ball a player and feelings would get hurt in the process due to that perceived dollar amount the Preds offered. Yes typically the player asks for more than they should actually get and the team offers less than what the player should get and meet in the middle. Sometimes when you think you are worth more than the people who are paying you, and we are talking millions sometimes, that can be a hard pill to swallow.

That's pretty much how it works with all GMs. Anyone who actually gets to and goes through an arbitration hearing ends up with a bruised ego
 

NoNecksCurse

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Shea Weber went to arbitration in the summer of 2011. The result was a 1 year 7.5 million contract.

The next summer he signed an offer sheet with the Flyers.

Reaching arbitration should be avoided at all costs. Grimaldi is of little concern (he’s already went to arbitration with us before) but this should be on everyone’s radar w/ Saros. Unless we are all just pencilling Askarov as the next great thing in 2 years.
 

NoNecksCurse

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for the record, i suspect a deal will be reached with saros but arbitration hearings are poison pills in some cases looking at past examples.
 

NoNecksCurse

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Summer of 2019. 7 players went to a hearing. Only 2 are still with that team. Grimaldi being 1 of the 2.

summer 2018 . 4 hearings .. none of them with the same team.

so there’s the most recent history. I don’t see why a deal wouldn’t be reached though. unless poile and co. really see askarov just being a stud in 2-3 years and aren’t willing to commit term wise to what Saros is asking.
 
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Predsanddead24

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Interesting going back and looking is that Arvidsson and Smith both went through with the hearings and then came to long term deals before the verdict. Grimaldi and Weber are our only two cases to ever be decided by the arbiter.
 

NoNecksCurse

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Interesting going back and looking is that Arvidsson and Smith both went through with the hearings and then came to long term deals before the verdict. Grimaldi and Weber are our only two cases to ever be decided by the arbiter.
Predators, Craig Smith pleased with new contract

i remembered smith taking the whole process very well. found this article and was a good reminder that i guess it depends on the individual and situation.
 
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predfan24

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Predators, Craig Smith pleased with new contract

i remembered smith taking the whole process very well. found this article and was a good reminder that i guess it depends on the individual and situation.

Normally, entering a meeting room for an arbitration hearing is viewed as a last resort and rarely do negotiations require that step. In this particular case, Smith's camp and the Predators weren't worried about the possibility of hurt feelings.

"I've been in situations before where that clearly was the case or going to be the case if we went to arbitration," Predators general manager David Poile said. "In this situation, I really did not feel that took place or happened. ... I'm sure if you talked to Craig Smith, he might have taken disagreement to things that we said, but I would be very surprised if he's not a very happy guy today."

Said Smith, laughing, "I'm my worst critic. ... I've probably said worse things (about) myself than what I heard (in) there."



Yeah, I agree with you. Smith always came across as a lack back guy with lots of humility. Saros comes off similarly. I am curious what Poile is offering Fabbro. Honestly, it's hard to see Fabbro's case for playing hardball without falling back on draft pedigree and hype.

I would love to see this get worked out before arbitration. If it makes it that far one side has to highlight how great they are and the other has to highlight how much they suck lol. Egos get involved and bad feelings could possibly linger from that.
 
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TheOriginalJez

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A box under a bridge
Summer of 2019. 7 players went to a hearing. Only 2 are still with that team. Grimaldi being 1 of the 2.

summer 2018 . 4 hearings .. none of them with the same team.

so there’s the most recent history. I don’t see why a deal wouldn’t be reached though. unless poile and co. really see askarov just being a stud in 2-3 years and aren’t will to commit term wise to what Saros is asking.

I can see Askarov coming in early, his youth stats were good, he's already getting KHL games (.951 last season over 9 games) and senior internationals (3 games .962.) I don't think we're far off seeing him in a Preds jersey competitively... but Saros should be worth 4/5m x 5y. For one if Askarov comes in and excels it shouldn't be hard to move Saros and two it's not like we really have better options right now. He was what top 5/6 in the Vezina voting this year? And that's his first season as genuine #1. I don't know why people are saying less than 5 on that basis. Solid bridge goaltender and we should hang onto him, anything less than 5.5 for 4-5 years seems fair.
 
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