Sanguinetti and the scouting war surrounding him

[Sammy*]

What does he gain from being biased though?

Well, 1st of all you dont have to gain anything to be biased. If I have a buddy on a team, & somebody that matters asks me "how's he doing?" , I say well because he's my buddy. People often naturally say good thing's about someone they know just because they know him.
Now, in terms of whats to gain, its very simple. If hes drafted in the 1st vs 2nd round, more $$$. Besides which, maybe this scout had something to do with the Attack getting him & the higher he goes the better it reflects on the scout & the org.
Frankly, the blurb in the 1st post by ISS was so over the top & unprofessional that it was clear imo , even before hearing the connection, that the guy had some sort of bias for some reason. Its just clear why now.

 

[JimEIV]

Maybe the Controversey will make him drop and he can be drafted by his Home State Team the New Jersey Devils

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Aside from a certain lack of objectivity on ISS's part, it's pretty clear they don't understand RLR's evaluation process. Woodlief and co aren't saying "x" player won't be a 1st rounder, just that they themselves don't like the player and wouldn't draft them that high. Personal preferance.

In Sanguinetti's case, he stands a great chance of being selected high because of his offensive ability, skating, and upside. Is he a great defensive player? Not really, but defense can be taught!

 

[BigE]

Well, 1st of all you dont have to gain anything to be biased. If I have a buddy on a team, & somebody that matters asks me "how's he doing?" , I say well because he's my buddy. People often naturally say good thing's about someone they know just because they know him.
Now, in terms of whats to gain, its very simple. If hes drafted in the 1st vs 2nd round, more $$$. Besides which, maybe this scout had something to do with the Attack getting him & the higher he goes the better it reflects on the scout & the org.
Frankly, the blurb in the 1st post by ISS was so over the top & unprofessional that it was clear imo , even before hearing the connection, that the guy had some sort of bias for some reason. Its just clear why now.

First, that is the difference between you, many others on this board, and professionals: regardless of their affiliations they have to maintain some sort of - wait for it - PROFESSIONALISM. I doubt you've met the guy before, let alone heard anything he's got to say about hockey (other than reading his free/trial report).

Second, the ISS isn't the only service saying this kid is a 1st round pick - yes the OHL teams get money for selections, but it's not as if this guy is single-handedly creating hype.

Third, perhaps it is the other way around? You have some sort of bias against this kid, or this gentleman, and through much effort are trying to twist his report anyway you can.

Nice, kid - real nice.

 

[Seph]

Aside from a certain lack of objectivity on ISS's part, it's pretty clear they don't understand RLR's evaluation process. Woodlief and co aren't saying "x" player won't be a 1st rounder, just that they themselves don't like the player and wouldn't draft them that high. Personal preferance.

In Sanguinetti's case, he stands a great chance of being selected high because of his offensive ability, skating, and upside. Is he a great defensive player? Not really, but defense can be taught!

Andy Delmore would beg to differ.

 

[Sammy*]

First, that is the difference between you, many others on this board, and professionals: regardless of their affiliations they have to maintain some sort of - wait for it - PROFESSIONALISM. I doubt you've met the guy before, let alone heard anything he's got to say about hockey (other than reading his free/trial report).

Second, the ISS isn't the only service saying this kid is a 1st round pick - yes the OHL teams get money for selections, but it's not as if this guy is single-handedly creating hype.

Third, perhaps it is the other way around? You have some sort of bias against this kid, or this gentleman, and through much effort are trying to twist his report anyway you can.

Nice, kid - real nice.

I' have zero opinion on the kid.
I just think its kinda common sense that if one is affiliated with the Attack, one will likely have some sort of bias when it comes to publically commenting on the kid. That coupled with what I consider an over the top reaction to some apparent negative scouting leads me to think the guy is in fact biased.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Andy Delmore would beg to differ.

True...........

 

[inferno98]

You can say he might be biased but he is not the only scouting report that has him going high in the first round. Also doesnt Woodlief have something to do with the scouting or relations with the NTDP(USA Hockey), if so didnt sanguinetti skip out on the NTDP after he commited? This could be why he doesnt like sanguinetti.

This is why it is called a scouting war, different opinions in different places and all that really matters is the NHL Organization's rankings.

Anyhow it would be nice if he dropped down so the Fly-guys could pick him up, his real home town living in south jersey.(Right across the Delaware river is Philadelphia for people who dont know.)

 

[xalcyx]

First, that is the difference between you, many others on this board, and professionals: regardless of their affiliations they have to maintain some sort of - wait for it - PROFESSIONALISM. I doubt you've met the guy before, let alone heard anything he's got to say about hockey (other than reading his free/trial report).

Second, the ISS isn't the only service saying this kid is a 1st round pick - yes the OHL teams get money for selections, but it's not as if this guy is single-handedly creating hype.

Third, perhaps it is the other way around? You have some sort of bias against this kid, or this gentleman, and through much effort are trying to twist his report anyway you can.

Nice, kid - real nice.

Actually I agree with Sammy's original post. From reading the comments in the thread starting post, it does seem a little odd that the ISS would make such an effort to discredit the other agency. When you look at the connection, it is certainly a logical to conclude that folks at the ISS may have a vested interest in seeing the player go higher. I'm not accusing them of anything, but to say someone is "twisting a report around" or something like that is a big overreaction on your part, when I saw no such accusations in the post you originally quoted.

 

[Whitesnake]

who has turned out to be a decent defenseman for Columbus. Couldn't have been a problem in Montreal though because we all know that Montreal is the mecca when it comes to developing young players.........

Here's something one of our posters at the Montreal forum wrote about that topic, and he's absolutely right....


''But if you want to talk about players that we picked and now playing elsewhere here's a list with names that we know:

Balej
Hainsey
Hossa
Beauchemin
Chouinard
Ward
Garon
Asham
Leclair
Clark
Robidas
Fitzpatrick
Tucker
Bure
Stevenson
Conroy
Hill
Cassels

Out of those guys, we may have made a mistake by trading Conroy, Tucker, Beauchemin, Hill, Cassels and Leclair too soon without really knowing what they were made of.

The others either are not doing anything so far, will not do anything at all, improved a little (Fitzpatrick, Clark) but most of them have nothing to do with developments but were just traded because to get some you need to give some sometimes.

BUT THIS IS OVER A FREAKIN' 19 YEARS PERIOD!!!! I had to go back to 1987 for Cassels and 1988 for Hill. So as far as development goes, we may have made 6 mistakes in 19 years and I may be stretching this a little bit. 'Cause Cassels or Hill or Beauchemin are or were good but not great players, so then it leaves Tucker, Conroy and Leclair as our worst ones. SO A BIG 3 IN 19 YEARS!!!!!

We're not that bad.... ''

As far as Hainsey is concern, for me the jury is still out, I don't see him racking points up there, he wouldn't be better than any of our top 6 d-men that we have now, better than Streit but with Bouillon back, he wouldn't be playing. Obviously with the d-men that the Jackets have, it's easy for him to pile up the minutes, but it's like with Brisebois, at the beginning everything was fine, he was racking up points and so on but then you go the the AVS' game threads and you hear about the same bonehead mistakes he made with us.....And what about Marcel Hossa, how did he develop in New York??? And Chouinard, Balej,.... Do you seriously say that we are one of the poorest teams in developing players??? Do you really want me to do the same exercice that was done for all the teams, or do you say things like that 'cause you're sure we won't take the time to check???

Pretty easy thing to say when you don't back it up.....

As far as Sanguinetti is concerned, I've never saw him play but with what I read, I believe he a 8.0 D or something like that. Offensively gifted, defensively questionnable, I hear Hainsey too so far a ''decent defenceman'' in Columbus, I think there's other people out there to choose between 10 to 15th. But he could be a good 20th pick....There's always somebody who drops and besides Joensuu, you'll see Frolik and Sanguinetti do the same...

 

[inferno98]

Someone said Sanguinetti is a RW, I know he a defenseman but does anyone think he could play some offense and if he would be productive there?

 

[Meat Wave]

Someone said Sanguinetti is a RW, I know he a defenseman but does anyone think he could play some offense and if he would be productive there?

I'd like to know too. Is he this year's Ray Macias?

 

[turnbuckle*]

First, that is the difference between you, many others on this board, and professionals: regardless of their affiliations they have to maintain some sort of - wait for it - PROFESSIONALISM. I doubt you've met the guy before, let alone heard anything he's got to say about hockey (other than reading his free/trial report).

Did ISS show professionalism by denigrating another scouting service? Hardly!! Thus i don't find it out of the realm of possibility that the head guy at ISS, who has an affiliation with Sang's team, has a slightly biased opinion when it comes to one of his own recruits. It's only natural, and is certainly no less "unprofessional" than calling out competitors.


For the record, I've talked to one NHL scout who doesn't see Sanguinetti as a top 15 pick, let alone a top 8. Just too many questions in his defence, which is the position he plays BTW. I get a kick out of posters who say defence can be taught. Sure - that's true to a certain extent, but moreso for forwards than defencemen. Scouts really like their blueliners to show good defensive instincts - if they don't at the junior level it sure as hell isn't going to get any easier at the pro level.

 

[Spezza]

I doubt that ISS have conciously gone out and ranked him higher based on the fact he's afiliated. I doubt that ISS have anything to gain from ranking him higher.

However, I think some of you are being harsh on those questioning the ranking.

I think the following link says what I'd like to quite well:http://happening-here.blogspot.com/2006/01/weapons-of-influence-consistency-and.html

 

[Pangu]

Intrestingly, the NYTimes had an artivle yesterday on bias. The point that the editorialist was making was that we tend to overestimate the bias of other people and underestimate the bias that we have. Rarely do we notice how we are biased. Often it is as simple as looking at the good things a bit more when they help us and ignoring the bad things a bit more when they hurt us (or vise-versa). Just because you are a pro does not mean that you are not impacted by that sort of bias. A real pro just tries to avoid situations where they are biased. If he works for the Attack than he is very likely to have a bias for its players.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I'm not a Sanguinetti fan. But I'm sure he'll be taken in the 1st round, it's not even debatable. Top-15 is practically a lock too. There will always be a team interested in a talented blueliner. For that reason, though, he won't even be on my draft list: I'm 100% certain that somebody will take him much higher than I'd be willing to. Too much of Poti/Hainsey/etc vibe there to me. Maybe if I saw him play 40 times or if I had the chance to interview him I'd have a different opinion, but from my handful of viewings, it's the softish/skilled-but-inconsistent image that he left me with, so that's all I have to go by.

 

[TCB2004]

What ISS printed was much more restrained than the shots RLR has taken against other services and media outlets - maybe it's just a case of you reap what you sow.

And besides although RLR has been the most negative, it hasn't been the only service to question Sanguinetti's all round game. Both McKeens and Young Guns Hockey have also questioned his defense.

 

[Riggins]

Did I create this 'scouting war'? Maybe I should never have posted the email reply I got from Woodlief.

 

[firstroundbust]

Did I create this 'scouting war'? Maybe I should never have posted the email reply I got from Woodlief.

I blame you!

 

[FearTheFlyers]

Maybe if I saw him play 40 times or if I had the chance to interview him I'd have a different opinion, but from my handful of viewings, it's the softish/skilled-but-inconsistent image that he left me with, so that's all I have to go by.

-Not soft at all
-One of the most consistent players I've ever seeen.

Don't know where you get that impression from, but it certainly isin't watching him. He is extremely willing to take a hit to make a play and brings it offensively and defensively every night.

One of the best point shots in the OHL. Never misses the net, keeps it low, hard and accurate. Gets a boatload of assists of deflections.

 

[Transported Upstater]

Intrestingly, the NYTimes had an artivle yesterday on bias. The point that the editorialist was making was that we tend to overestimate the bias of other people and underestimate the bias that we have. Rarely do we notice how we are biased. Often it is as simple as looking at the good things a bit more when they help us and ignoring the bad things a bit more when they hurt us (or vise-versa). Just because you are a pro does not mean that you are not impacted by that sort of bias. A real pro just tries to avoid situations where they are biased. If he works for the Attack than he is very likely to have a bias for its players.

Homer.

 

[Blind Gardien]

-Not soft at all
-One of the most consistent players I've ever seeen.

Don't know where you get that impression from, but it certainly isin't watching him.

It's 100% from watching him. But in only 6 games max (this year, anyway). On TV. So it's entirely possible that he's just inconsistent and takes nights off most times I'm watching. And takes all his hits away from the camera.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. I'm sure he'll be a fine NHL defenseman, but I won't be drafting him. I can be sold on my own 6 games worth of viewing far more easily than I can be sold on anybody else's opinion. I acknowledge it's risky, and I can be flat out wrong from 6 games (and often am), but all in all I generally find it to be less risky than the alternative. You can hit or miss either way, though.

Here's hoping that you guys who think Sanguinetti is a complete and consistent player are right, for your own sakes. It has no effect on me, I won't see him again until after the draft, and (I'm sure he'd be really disappointed to learn) he's already blown his chance with this scout.

 

[Amadeus]

If he falls anywhere after top 13, he's a solid pick IMO.

Many people were unsure of Luc Bourdon last year too. Now everyone has changed their mind. Sanguinetti is a fine defenseman IMO.