Sandin Better Stay

Martin Skoula

Registered User
Oct 18, 2017
11,639
16,315
Babcock is a safety first coach in all aspects and it is not a conducive type of coach for developing young defensemen.

It's the same line of reasoning that leads to him NEVER changing lines up, PP formations or anything. Matthews is killing it on the right side of the PP this year and our PP was stagnant for an extremely long time last year. Why the **** did Babcock never make this change? Because he's too wrapped up in his own ideology and the status quo.

It's so infuriating watch people continuously rewrite history and narratives to defend Babcock's obvious weaknesses.

Honestly it's not conducive to winning this year either.

What happens if Muzzin or Rielly get injured in March? Neither Dermott or Sandin have experience playing those minutes.

Is beating Columbus 4-1 instead of 4-2 in October really that important?
 
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IPS

Registered User
Sep 28, 2017
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Honestly it's not conducive to winning this year either.

What happens if Muzzin or Rielly get injured in March? Neither Dermott or Sandin have experience playing those minutes.

Is beating Columbus 4-1 instead of 4-2 in October really that important?
It's really not.

What a good coach does is try and get their young rookie D some time in when the team gets a sizeable lead (like when were up against Ottawa and Columbus) so when a situation you described arises, they're not caught completely with their pants down. But not with Babcock - no, it needs to be safety first 100% of the time with no exceptions.
 
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kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
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Honestly it's not conducive to winning this year either.

What happens if Muzzin or Rielly get injured in March? Neither Dermott or Sandin have experience playing those minutes.

Is beating Columbus 4-1 instead of 4-2 in October really that important?

It's really not.

What a good coach does is try and get their young rookie D some time in when the team gets a sizeable lead (like when were up against Ottawa and Columbus) so when a situation you described arises, they're not caught completely with their pants down. But not with Babcock - no, it needs to be safety first 100% of the time with no exceptions.

And then when this eventually happens and these guys get torched, he'll go public to the media that the Leafs have no depth.

Rinse, repeat. Never his fault, never any accountability for things he has total control over.
 

Menzinger

Kessel4LadyByng
Apr 24, 2014
40,973
32,364
St. Paul, MN
Agreed with the highlighted. I cringe hearing "Detroit model". That was borne out of necessity, not because of a conscious decision. In a 20 year stretch ending around 2012 (I believe), they traded away their first round pick 10 times, and in some of those years, their second round pick as well. Their teams during a lot of that time were very strong. So they were drafting late in the first (if at all), and as a result of the strong team, it took years for those players to get to a point where they were good enough to crack the lineup.

The "Detroit model" was a myth borne out of this situation..

Yep.

The Detorit model is nothing more than getting incredibly lucky on late round draft picks. That's it
 
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MLSE

Registered User
Jan 30, 2004
5,845
375
Windsor, Ontario
How can his ice time increase if he doesn't get a chance to show anything but limited, sheltered minutes against 4th liners?

Did Charlie McAvoy start out that way?

He needs to play some minutes now, if only to take the burden off the top-4, which was gassed by the last few minutes of the 2nd against the Habs.

Well..

He didnt get 9 minutes again.. are you saying with a capable partner like Dermott or whoever it is when Dermott is back that he can't get 15 minutes a night?

Also how many minutes is enough to justify playing against NHL players instead of AHL players?

Edit:

Also most minutes all season tonight, go figure.. he's not getting the same minutes he did in the first game. PK time too?! Maybe you were overreacting a tad?
 
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kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,200
21,497
Well..

He didnt get 9 minutes again.. are you saying with a capable partner like Dermott or whoever it is when Dermott is back that he can't get 15 minutes a night?

Also how many minutes is enough to justify playing against NHL players instead of AHL players?

Edit:

Also most minutes all season tonight, go figure.. he's not getting the same minutes he did in the first game. PK time too?! Maybe you were overreacting a tad?
How am I overreacting? Tonight actually proved my point to a tee. I was saying to play him more, or send him down. This is the bare minimum he needs to play if you are going to keep him up. If he got another 10-12 minutes, don't keep him up - send him back. And don't play him against 4th liners exclusively. If he can't play against higher lines, then he's simply not ready, so send him back.

You don't think it would have been smarter to play him 15 minutes the last two games prior to this instead of having our top 4 being completely gassed in the third period of back to backs because they played 80% of the minutes between them in both games? Asinine. That Montreal loss was on Babcock being dense and not playing Sandin more.
 
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Eternal Leaf

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
7,594
8,823
Toronto
Looked pretty good tonight.

He's going to have his ups and downs, which is why it's best to let him do his thing. No need to overreact one way or the other.
 

Apotheosis

Registered User
Mar 27, 2014
11,605
5,140
Toronto, Ontario
He's starting to acclimate me thinks. His breakout game is already really good. He has a way of slowing the game down and finding holes to break out the puck. Not too bad under pressure either. D is going to look even better when Dermott is back.
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
4,792
1,998
He's starting to acclimate me thinks. His breakout game is already really good. He has a way of slowing the game down and finding holes to break out the puck. Not too bad under pressure either. D is going to look even better when Dermott is back.
Can't play him enough! Lad is as cool as they come....He is gonna be part of the foundation for this team.
 
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kb

Registered User
Aug 28, 2009
15,200
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Can't play him enough! Lad is as cool as they come....He is gonna be part of the foundation for this team.
Agreed. Let him make his mistakes and take his lumps now, he is very smart and will learn from them. And the Leafs will be a better team for it.
 

hector morrison

Registered User
Apr 1, 2018
4,792
1,998
Agreed. Let him make his mistakes and take his lumps now, he is very smart and will learn from them. And the Leafs will be a better team for it.
I 've seen a lot...an awful lot (and a lot of awful) hockey players...Sandin was the best player on the ice in camp last year! He has played almost mistake free hockey (at least from all I've seen) This lad is the real deal....Find room,make trades ,whatever it takes ,but I would get him in the top 4 this year!
 
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MJ65

Registered User
Jul 12, 2009
16,376
2,233
Toronto
Love this kid - Defense man usually take long time to mature but at his age he has shown a lot of maturity. He is still and going to make mistake but more he play the better he is going to get
 

JustJokinenAround

just a goofball
Feb 5, 2018
1,015
536
a local rink
Love this kid - Defense man usually take long time to mature but at his age he has shown a lot of maturity. He is still and going to make mistake but more he play the better he is going to get
i've really loved his game so far. plenty of confidence and poise on the backend. the one thing he has to clean up is falling in the d-zone, kinda weird its happened at least 5 times already.
 
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ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,080
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i've really loved his game so far. plenty of confidence and poise on the backend. the one thing he has to clean up is falling in the d-zone, kinda weird its happened at least 5 times already.
Probably wasn't seen on tv but he did this last night when the puck was nowhere in sight. lol

Kid looks great, he may not see the Marlies again.
 

Morbo

The Annihilator
Jan 14, 2003
27,100
5,734
Toronto
Probably wasn't seen on tv but he did this last night when the puck was nowhere in sight. lol

Kid looks great, he may not see the Marlies again.

I think it's nervousness. Kid is an excellent skater.

I also like that although he is a small guy, he goes after his man and does a surprisingly decent job of it. That definitely won't hurt him in the coach's eyes.

We'll see what happens when Dermott returns but so far so good.
 

NightTrain1

Registered User
Oct 20, 2013
532
579
Well there is one easy thing to compare against right now and that is our own veteran defense. Sandin does not look out of place one single bit and even though it is less minutes I would say he is making less mistakes per min than most of the others. Last night against the Stanley Cup champs who play a very structured and intense pressure type game Sandin held his line as perfect as we could ask for.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,080
38,122
I think it's nervousness. Kid is an excellent skater.

I also like that although he is a small guy, he goes after his man and does a surprisingly decent job of it. That definitely won't hurt him in the coach's eyes.

We'll see what happens when Dermott returns but so far so good.
He and Dermott will make an excellent 3rd pair IMO.
 

Green Snow Storm

Registered User
Jul 22, 2009
5,134
1,442
Canada
If he continues getting 14+ minutes that would be great! He can flat out play in the NHL. Pretty clear there isn't anything left to gain against AHL competition. Him and Dermott should be a pair Babs is comfortable giving 15 or more a game.
 
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GoonieFace

Registered User
Jun 24, 2013
7,088
6,770
The Matrix
Imagine easing a 19year old into a starting line-up. People freaking out after the first game. Up to 15 minutes last night and is earning those minutes, the over reactions on this board are epic
 
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ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,080
38,122
Imagine easing a 19year old into a starting line-up. People freaking out after the first game. Up to 15 minutes last night and is earning those minutes, the over reactions on this board are epic
The tears that one guy shed after the opening night. I hope he didn't drown in them. lol
 

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