Proposal: San Jose Tear down

[Groo]

So you prefer the strategy of surrounding yourself with yes men?

No, I look for the guy with a plan to win. Surrendering before the battle/season starts is just giving up

 

[Kublakhan]

giving what these sods are offering up for Jack Eichel your geriatric crew should net you a couple seventh rd picks

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Yeah? What leads you to believe anything like that would be acceptable by our owner/management?
A 5 year plan of sucking isn't in the vocabulary

The management put the Sharks in their current position and it's one of the worst mismanagements of contracts we've ever seen in the NHL.

It's one thing if the Sharks had one or two bad contracts but they have most of their salary cap tied up in players on the downside of their career or heading there, and these contracts are for 3-6 more years.

It's like Doug Wilson completely ignored what happened with the Red Wings.

The point is it doesn't matter what what the Sharks do they are screwed because they've made so many bad decisions that there's no way out aside from sucking for several years.

My greatest fear is that Wilson doubles down again and makes some other hairbrained trade to try to improve the core by again devastating the prospect pool/draft pick capital.

The reason first round picks are so valuable isn't just the ability to acquire young talent cheaply it's also that if they bust it doesn't hold your salary cap hostage. and better yet they are successful you have control at a reason rate for a few years.

 

[Groo]

The management put the Sharks in their current position and it's one of the worst mismanagements of contracts we've ever seen in the NHL.

It's one thing if the Sharks had one or two bad contracts but they have most of their salary cap tied up in players on the downside of their career or heading there, and these contracts are for 3-6 more years.

It's like Doug Wilson completely ignored what happened with the Red Wings.

The point is it doesn't matter what what the Sharks do they are screwed because they've made so many bad decisions that there's no way out aside from sucking for several years.

My greatest fear is that Wilson doubles down again and makes some other hairbrained trade to try to improve the core by again devastating the prospect pool/draft pick capital.

The reason first round picks are so valuable isn't just the ability to acquire young talent cheaply it's also that if they bust it doesn't hold your salary cap hostage. and better yet they are successful you have control at a reason rate for a few years.

If their goal is to not lose money by keeping fannies in the seats then they've done well
They took a page right out of the SG Giants playbook, Spend money not to lose money. The Giants sold out their park and managed to win a few championships when it was all said and done. The Sharks never could get over the hump

 

[belair]

Meier has a $10m qualifying offer at the end of his current deal. There's no chance in hell I'm not giving up futures knowing I'll have to deal with that in a few seasons.

 

[Gecklund]

When has a rental returned a 1st and top prospect?

When has a rental as good as Hertl been traded?

 

[majormajor]

Meier has a $10m qualifying offer at the end of his current deal. There's no chance in hell I'm not giving up futures knowing I'll have to deal with that in a few seasons.

The thing is though, if you can't agree on a long term deal with Meier (which would be at a lower AAV), you can just let him walk in two years. And two years of Meier is still worth a lot. Would I pay Yama and a 1st for it? I'm not sure, but it's not too far off.

 

[majormajor]

Hertl (extended) for Patrik Laine, yea or nay?

And what is Hertl's approximate price tag? 8x8? Would he potentially sign in Columbus, if they're holding the team together?

The idea is simple enough. Laine is an unbalanced young player that still has a lot to learn in the league. Columbus is trying to avoid rebuilding and they don't have the patience for him, they'd accept an older player with less upside if they get to enjoy that immediate improvement. San Jose is in a great position to be patient and bet on the long term.

 

[Groo]

Hertl (extended) for Patrik Laine, yea or nay?

And what is Hertl's approximate price tag? 8x8? Would he potentially sign in Columbus, if they're holding the team together?

The idea is simple enough. Laine is an unbalanced young player that still has a lot to learn in the league. Columbus is trying to avoid rebuilding and they don't have the patience for him, they'd accept an older player with less upside if they get to enjoy that immediate improvement. San Jose is in a great position to be patient and bet on the long term.

No thank you

 

[IranCondraAffair]

When has a rental as good as Hertl been traded?

uhhh...I'm pretty sure following guys were all traded as "rentals" and were either better than Hertl at the time of the trade or in the same tier:

Hall to Arizona
Kovalchuk to New Jersey
Mark Stone to Las Vegas
Shattenkirk to Rangers
Karlsson to San Jose
Hossa to Pittsburgh
Martin St Louis to the Rangers.
Gaborik to Blue Jackets
Doug Weight to Carolina
Peter Forsberg to Nashville
Ryan Smyth to Islanders
Keith Tkachuk to Atlanta
Brian Campbell to San Jose

Was McDonagh a rental? I can't remember if he had one year or two left.
was Ron Francis to Pittsburgh as a deadline deal a rental?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

If their goal is to not lose money by keeping fannies in the seats then they've done well
They took a page right out of the SG Giants playbook, Spend money not to lose money. The Giants sold out their park and managed to win a few championships when it was all said and done. The Sharks never could get over the hump

The MLB doesn't have a salary cap. You can't compare the two.

 

[Groo]

The MLB doesn't have a salary cap. You can't compare the two.

Okay, yes baseball does have a soft cap but it doesn't change the model. The Sharks aren't a budget team. They've done well icing winning teams that fill the tank with fans. This is a market that's shown that losing or winning has a big effect on fans in the stands. Both the Niners and Giants have had losing seasons yet still claim "sell outs" Of course the stadiums where half empty when those teams stank. The Sharks aren't immune from it.
I've argued for some time that Hasso's mandate. Don't lose money

 

[DingDongCharlie]

I’d rather buyout Neal and keep our 1st. We probably lose Benson in the expansion draft. I’m not against moving a 1st to address a need but this isn’t it

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Meier would actually be with Drai, since Pulju is with McJesus, but I would consider that.

Meier 10 million qualifier gives me pause.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Hertl (extended) for Patrik Laine, yea or nay?

And what is Hertl's approximate price tag? 8x8? Would he potentially sign in Columbus, if they're holding the team together?

The idea is simple enough. Laine is an unbalanced young player that still has a lot to learn in the league. Columbus is trying to avoid rebuilding and they don't have the patience for him, they'd accept an older player with less upside if they get to enjoy that immediate improvement. San Jose is in a great position to be patient and bet on the long term.

If we trade Hertl, who exactly are we playing Laine with? Huge pass.

 

[CatchyTune]

When has a rental as good as Hertl been traded?

Hall to Arizona rings a bell, and i dont even think Hertl is regarded as highly as Hall was then. Hall was a recent Hart winner.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hall to Arizona rings a bell, and i dont even think Hertl is regarded as highly as Hall was then. Hall was a recent Hart winner.

I think if anything Hertl will be regarded higher than Hall was. Hall has had a reputation about how he impacts his teams ability to win or lose even before that deal. Hertl also is the more complete player with more playoff experience playing center on teams that has had a lot of pressure moments that he's come through on. The difference in Hall's favor though is that his previous trades came when he was under a contract that didn't have a trade clause to my knowledge while Hertl has a three team trade list at this stage.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

Hertl (extended) for Patrik Laine, yea or nay?

And what is Hertl's approximate price tag? 8x8? Would he potentially sign in Columbus, if they're holding the team together?

The idea is simple enough. Laine is an unbalanced young player that still has a lot to learn in the league. Columbus is trying to avoid rebuilding and they don't have the patience for him, they'd accept an older player with less upside if they get to enjoy that immediate improvement. San Jose is in a great position to be patient and bet on the long term.

L.O.L.

 

[DisbeliefInDW]

Also, as a *Few* others have noted, I have no idea why Timo's QO is a talking point for other teams. It should be for the sharks, but not for others. Why does it matter if his QO is a high number if you're trading for him? Teams don't just trade players for them to permanently stay with them till their career is over, they also very often make trades for immediate help. If a team thinks Meier can help the, which is debateable, they're getting him for 2 years at a MINIMUM. They shouldn't even be thinking about the QO.

 

[CatchyTune]

I think if anything Hertl will be regarded higher than Hall was. Hall has had a reputation about how he impacts his teams ability to win or lose even before that deal. Hertl also is the more complete player with more playoff experience playing center on teams that has had a lot of pressure moments that he's come through on. The difference in Hall's favor though is that his previous trades came when he was under a contract that didn't have a trade clause to my knowledge while Hertl has a three team trade list at this stage.

Hall was 1 year removed from winning the Hart. Hertl isnt regarded as higher. He could return something very similar though. If he is moved in the summer the price could be higher as he would be in the folds the whole season rather than a deadline pickup.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Hall was 1 year removed from winning the Hart. Hertl isnt regarded as higher. He could return something very similar though. If he is moved in the summer the price could be higher as he would be in the folds the whole season rather than a deadline pickup.

Which was followed up by a disappointing season and then another disappointing season where New Jersey was willing to call it quits on him pretty early the year they traded him. They soured on him pretty quickly.

 

[CatchyTune]

Which was followed up by a disappointing season and then another disappointing season where New Jersey was willing to call it quits on him pretty early the year they traded him. They soured on him pretty quickly.

Where was the disappointing season? He was PPG then got injured the year after the Hart win.

I think he is pretty easily the best rental to be traded in a while. Unless someone is slipping my mind, I dont remember a legit star going anywhere as a 1 year deal/deadline rental move.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Where was the disappointing season? He was PPG then got injured the year after the Hart win.

I think he is pretty easily the best rental to be traded in a while. Unless someone is slipping my mind, I dont remember a legit star going anywhere as a 1 year deal/deadline rental move.

The disappointing season was with his team. Everything that came out spoke to that.

 

[CatchyTune]

The disappointing season was with his team. Everything that came out spoke to that.

You're saying Halls value was lower because New Jersey had a bad year? And this is supposed to support Hertls case while on a bad team as well...?

 

[Pinkfloyd]

You're saying Halls value was lower because New Jersey had a bad year? And this is supposed to support Hertls case while on a bad team as well...?

I'm saying New Jersey didn't maximize his value because they didn't care to. They were disappointed with him and the team's season and decided to move on. The Sharks value Hertl much differently and aren't just going to move on from him for the sake of it like NJ did with Hall.