San Francisco for the NHL

[LadyStanley]

There's the Cow Palace (where the Sharks played in their first two years of existance), but that arena is really, really old. I rather have a team (if the Bay Area needs another NHL team) in Oakland and just bring back the Seals.

The Cow Palace isn't even a "standard" NHL rink size.

There would have to be a new arena built. And with the way things are, it would have to be a private funded entity. I just don't see that happening.

I think there would be a NHL team in Houston before there's one in Oakland or San Francisco.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The Cow Palace isn't even a "standard" NHL rink size.

There would have to be a new arena built. And with the way things are, it would have to be a private funded entity. I just don't see that happening.

I think there would be a NHL team in Houston before there's one in Oakland or San Francisco.

Oracle Arena can house an NHL team. Sacramento has a better chance than San Francisco if push came to shove and the region gets their act together to build a new arena. If Les Alexander shows interest again, Houston should be one of, if not, the top American cities in line for a franchise.

 

[kdb209]

The Cow Palace isn't even a "standard" NHL rink size.

And the state has been trying for years to sell off the property for development since 2007 - but that required a vote in the legislature to declare it surplus property. That vote failed, but there was a compromise agreement to sell off one of the Cow Palace overflow parking lots - but the Governator vetoed that bill.

 

[Mathradio]

The Bay Area is good enough of a hockey market for one team that can sell out the arena for each and every game. The Sharks draw fans from all over the Bay Area.

 

[Hoser]

Oracle Arena can house an NHL team.

It did, for nine seasons, and it was a complete and utter failure.

 

[Steelhead16]

It did, for nine seasons, and it was a complete and utter failure.

That was 30 years ago. They had a crazy owner, a bad lease and 3 million less people. That being said I still don't think that the area can fully support two teams. It's San Jose or Oakland, but not both.

 

[jiggsawpuzzle35]

How can Oracle arena house a NHL team? It's only configured for one sport which is basketball.

 

[kdb209]

How can Oracle arena house a NHL team? It's only configured for one sport which is basketball.

Oakland Arena Colisem hosted the Seals and several exhibition games in the 80's.

I am not aware of anything done during the '96-'97 renovations that would have removed that capability.

Looking at the seating chart - it appears that if you remove remove sections 1-28 (which I believe are retractable) you get an NHL sheet size cavity.

 

[krudmonk]

Well obviously a hockey rink is much longer than a basketball court. Doesn't look like one can fit, either on your seating chart on in this photo:

 

[Hoser]

That was 30 years ago. They had a crazy owner, a bad lease and 3 million less people. That being said I still don't think that the area can fully support two teams. It's San Jose or Oakland, but not both.

The Seals were in dire straights within the first few weeks of their existence in the NHL. There was talk of moving the team to Vancouver by Christmas, '67. This was well before Charlie Finley got involved.

The Seals had many issues that had nothing to do with being in Oakland (poor management decisions on the part of Barry Van Gerbig, i.e firing Rudy Pilous and bringing in Bert Olmstead before the '67-'68 season (right around the Expansion Draft...), Bert Olmstead's poor management decisions and coaching, etc.), but one of the issues they had was simply being in Oakland. It was a poor hockey market then, it's a poor hockey market now.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Well obviously a hockey rink is much longer than a basketball court. Doesn't look like one can fit, either on your seating chart on in this photo:

wiki has its capacity being 17,000 after renovations so take that for whatever it's worth.

 

[Hoser]

Oakland Arena Colisem hosted the Seals and several exhibition games in the 80's.

I am not aware of anything done during the '96-'97 renovations that would have removed that capability.

Looking at the seating chart - it appears that if you remove remove sections 1-28 (which I believe are retractable) you get an NHL sheet size cavity.

You'd have to cut into sections 105, 107, 108, 110, 119, 121, 122 and 124 to make it fit.

I have no doubt it could be done, but it's not really set up for hockey anymore.

(They still have an ice plant, for what it's worth.)

 

[mooseOAK*]

You'd have to cut into sections 105, 107, 108, 110, 119, 121, 122 and 124 to make it fit.

I have no doubt it could be done, but it's not really set up for hockey anymore.

(They still have an ice plant, for what it's worth.)

I wonder when was the last time it was used.

 

[HabsByTheBay]

I've only been to the Oracle Arena once, but I had some pretty good seats. I believe they were on temporary risers, suggesting they could be removed for ice hockey.

The Giants have made some noises about partnering with the Warriors to develop some land, including a new arena, south of the ballpark. That could conceivably be used for hockey.

Anything that happens would likely involve the Giants, since they are owned by many members of San Francisco's great and good, they are trusted by the community for what they did with the ballpark, and because if they asked for everyone's first born son they would get it because they're the World Series champions.

 

[HabsByTheBay]

I know (to varying degrees) probably two dozen people from college who now live in SF. Of the three actual natives, two are big Giants/Niners fans. The rest are there to be indie hipster kids, advancing awful fashion and even worse music (and of course I give them crap for it). I know real San Franciscans don't fit the stereotype but many newcomers do. That's all I'm saying..

I think you'd be surprised how many of them like sports. It's more than you think.

 

[DungeonK]

Those are pretty important. 4 teams in California make no sense.

Why not put a team in any city with a large amount of affluent people?

Who cares if there are 3 others in the state? California is so big that it's practically a country on its own- *any* of its major regions could function as an independent state and still be more successful than a ton of other states or provinces.

Hockey is hip, alternative and edgy enough that it would do gangbusters in a city full of rich people like San Fran.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Why would San Jose even agree to a team in SF or Oakland? The Kings only agreed to the Ducks because McNall himself pocketed half the expansion fee as compensation. And that was selfishness over team interest.

If you look to add another team in California, you've got to look at markets not served yet, Sacramento, Fresno, San Diego ..and since none of those is really that great an option, maybe three California teams is just fine for now.

 

[Steve Passless*]

If the Warriors' new building in San Francisco ever gets built, and it's state-of-the-art enough, they just might be able to lure the Sharks downtown. The HP Pavilion has more in common with the Joe Louis Arena than it does with, say, the United Center.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

If the Warriors' new building in San Francisco ever gets built, and it's state-of-the-art enough, they just might be able to lure the Sharks downtown. The HP Pavilion has more in common with the Joe Louis Arena than it does with, say, the United Center.

Unless SVSE ends up operating that arena, the Sharks wouldn't even think about moving from HP Pavilion to San Francisco. Their survivability through lean times depends on them having the ability to book and profit from events as the operator of the arena.

 

[Steelhead16]

If the Warriors' new building in San Francisco ever gets built, and it's state-of-the-art enough, they just might be able to lure the Sharks downtown. The HP Pavilion has more in common with the Joe Louis Arena than it does with, say, the United Center.

Huh?

 

[barneyg]

Why would San Jose even agree to a team in SF or Oakland? The Kings only agreed to the Ducks because McNall himself pocketed half the expansion fee as compensation. And that was selfishness over team interest.

If you look to add another team in California, you've got to look at markets not served yet, Sacramento, Fresno, San Diego ..and since none of those is really that great an option, maybe three California teams is just fine for now.

Let's be honest. Fresno is a horrible option for the NHL.

 

[krudmonk]

If the Warriors' new building in San Francisco ever gets built, and it's state-of-the-art enough, they just might be able to lure the Sharks downtown. The HP Pavilion has more in common with the Joe Louis Arena than it does with, say, the United Center.

Just quit. There's no way the Sharks would go up and play 4th fiddle in Frisco and not even control the arena...

 

[Stansfield*]

The NHL doesn't need two bay area teams

 

[tikigod311]

And Houston is a terrible choice, I'm sorry. Two reasons...the Aeros can't even get close to selling out their games so what makes you think a failed product from another city (e.g. Phoenix) moving there is going to be any different? Next thing, and someone has to say it here is the demographics of H-Town and tell me if you can think of another city out there that has a NHL team that is failing and everyone believes should be moved....

Quote:
According to the 2010 Census, Whites made up 50.5% of Houston's population, of which 25.6% were non-Hispanic whites. Blacks or African Americans made up 23.7% of Houston's population. American Indians made up 0.7% of Houston's population. Asians made up 6.0% of Houston's population while Pacific Islanders made up 0.1%. Individuals from some other race made up 15.2% of the city's population, of which 0.2% were non-Hispanic. Individuals from two or more races made up 3.3% of the city's population. People of Hispanic or Latino origin made up 43.8% of Houston's population.[106]


Quote:
2010 Census figures indicated a population of 420,003 - 22.4% lower than 2009 estimates of 540,921.[144] The huge difference between the 2010 official count and the 2009 estimates caused many to question the reliability of the 2010 count, including Atlanta mayor Kasim Reed.[145]

According to the 2010 census, the racial composition of the city of Atlanta was as follows:

Black or African American: 54.0%
White: 38.4% (Non-Hispanic Whites: 36.3%)
Asian: 3.1%
Native American: 0.2%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander: 0.0%
Some other race: 2.2%
Two or more races: 2.0%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race): 5.3%




Please be honest with this and keep it away from the nasty type comments. But in all honesty, while the game has made huge headway in the African American community, the hispanic community is basically NON EXISTENT. What do you think Houston would be able to do? Out of the 2,099,000 (according to 2010 Census) only about 1,100,000 are white. How many are transplants from other regions where hockey is huge probably is not that high. Not to mention Football is STILL the #1 sport in the Lonestar state and the Texans always have a huge rating because of it. Hockey isn't going to tap into that demographic, I'm sorry. Houston is not Dallas where there was a massive amount of transplant movement with new money taking over the city. This would be like putting a team in San Diego.

As a Atlantan who now lives in Houston, there is a big difference in your demographic numbers. The city of Atlanta is rather small as far as the metro area goes, only 420,000 residents. Metro Atlanta has 5.29 million residents.

The city of Houston on the other hand has 2.1 million people with a metro population of 6 million.

So, its really not a great comparison. The problem in Atlanta btw is ownership, not demographics. I hear they are discussing that on other threads...

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

IIRC, Portland is one of the teams that was heavily debated about being on the top of the chopping block if the NBA were to contract any of the teams.

What? They're owned by Paul Allen, they have a great fan base and a good team. There's no way they're anywhere near the chopping block. The teams on the chopping block would be Milwaukee, Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte and Minnesota.

And Houston is a terrible choice, I'm sorry. Two reasons...the Aeros can't even get close to selling out their games so what makes you think a failed product from another city (e.g. Phoenix) moving there is going to be any different?

LOL. This is one of your reasons? Try again. No team in the AHL sells out their games. Like literally none. The closest is Hershey, Manitoba fills a little over half the MTS Centre. Milwaukee, who you say is one of the best places for a team (even though currently it's not) has the Admirals and over the last six years they have averaged 5,703 fans in an arena that holds 17,845 for hockey.

Portland, Maine for a team? LOL at that too. Easily the smallest metro area in a market that already is saturated with teams. Do you really think that small of a market with hockey fans who already have allegiances to mostly the Bruins and other Northeast teams are going to support a team in Portland? As far as them being close to Canada, they're three hours away from the border of Quebec. Now even if hypothetically a fan near the border of Quebec and Maine became a fan of a team in Quebec, what are the chances they make multiple trips driving three hours each way to see them?