Sam Gagner Appreciation

ThePhoenixx

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Aug 7, 2005
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yeah I don't agree here. Its one thing to improve your skating to a great degree as a teen. Its another to do it a decade later. Gagner has never been one to waffle on off season training either, he stays in shape and even saw the necessity to become bigger, to play in this league, and he's 200lbs. Some might say he should be smaller, but try telling somebody that had their face rearranged through a non hockey play that they should be smaller out there in the NHL shark tank. Gagner realized getting stronger was part of self protection. Its hard to get both bigger and faster.

I love Draisaitl all day but Leon had one primary thing to do, get faster. He already had the stature, size, strength. Drai being slow was also being overstated and with big players its very much an optical illusion. PLENTY of the same people laughing at Drai, saying he's slow and lazy were stating that still LAST SEASON. If we're being clear. To me Drai improved first stride acceleration. That made a difference. Gags worked on the first stride acceleration years ago, and had it even in his rookie season.

But painting Gagner as the player with a bad attitude that doesn't respond to suggestions? I don't know that is accurate. If you give some stated citations I'll consider the point. In the absence of that I don't know its true that he "doesn't listen".

The comments were made for a reason.

Crosby worked on his skating all summer. Well documented. He's pretty smart. Obviously he thought he could improve. To say you cannot improve on a physical something in your twenties is just not right.
 

Drivesaitl

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He didn't improve his skating. Ever. Everyone can do that. I cannot remember a time when he spent training with someone like a Pelletier.

I guess I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time.

tbh I can tell you where Gagner spent a lot of offseasons training, what it looked like, what he had in his house that he used etc. He's actually one of the few players in the league that takes training so seriously he had the foresight to have a complete service Gym in his house. Which from all accounts he used religiously.

Gagner was also a good enough skater to make the NHL at a very young 18 and played so well in preseason that he pretty much forced the clubs hands. Lets not pretend there were gaping holes in his game. He had a 49pt rookie season and for months was arguably the teams best player. While 18.
 
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Drivesaitl

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The comments were made for a reason.

Crosby worked on his skating all summer. Well documented. He's pretty smart. Obviously he thought he could improve. To say you cannot improve on a physical something in your twenties is just not right.

You might be right, but its sheer speculation, and we all do it. For all we know Gagner works on power skating every summer. Some skaters make strides in their skating, some benefit highly from power skating, techniques, etc. Its fine honed skill. Theres a ton of people that took such classes and never got better. Like any instruction it works better for some, than others.

Similar some players can gain weight, add some bulk, get stronger, some other people, body types, have a lot more difficulty trying to increase strength. Everybody is different.

The only reason I responded to your post was your stated inference that Sam doesn't follow direction. You never cited an instance of that, of when the specific direction was given, and Sam not doing it. Thus you made it up. Right?
 
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AM

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Nov 22, 2004
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Its hard to make a NHL team, setbacks do happen.

However, he was not "released". He is still on the team and we will need minutes from him this year.
 
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ThePhoenixx

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Aug 7, 2005
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You might be right, but its sheer speculation, and we all do it. For all we know Gagner works on power skating every summer. Some skaters make strides in their skating, some benefit highly from power skating, techniques, etc. Its fine honed skill. Theres a ton of people that took such classes and never got better. Like any instruction it works better for some, than others.

Similar some players can gain weight, add some bulk, get stronger, some other people, body types, have a lot more difficulty trying to increase strength. Everybody is different.

The only reason I responded to your post was your stated inference that Sam doesn't follow direction. You never cited an instance of that, of when the specific direction was given, and Sam not doing it. Thus you made it up. Right?

I meant his skating. You said you did not understand Tippet (He's too slow) and Holland. Well, Gagner always received a big contract up until now. He wanted to beef up to protect himself. Hence, the gym. Why get faster? Why change? His big contract proved he was doing something right.

He has a gym but does he work on his skating? Did he lose a few pounds to try and make up for his lack of speed? The answer to all these is no if you look at results.

As you said, he got creamed. I'd want to protect myself as well. Who can really blame him? Well, obviously the people paying him three and a half mil this year. ;)
 

Drivesaitl

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I meant his skating. You said you did not understand Tippet (He's too slow) and Holland. Well, Gagner always received a big contract up until now. He wanted to beef up to protect himself. Hence, the gym. Why get faster? Why change? His big contract proved he was doing something right.

He has a gym but does he work on his skating? Did he lose a few pounds to try and make up for his lack of speed? The answer to all these is no if you look at results.

As you said, he got creamed. I'd want to protect myself as well. Who can really blame him? Well, obviously the people paying him three and a half mil this year. ;)

Its all good, thanks for the discussion, I'd be interested if Tippet said anything months ago on this specifically, or communicated it directly to Gagner earlier on.

This just general comment, but I don't know that this org has ever done enough of a job at time of exit interviews establishing what the players could/should focus on. Holland and Tippet are new here so we'll see but its something I want to hear more of. I want the recommendations to be more specific, and even ongoing. The team has not done an effective job letting a Pulju know what he should be doing consistently, or letting a Khaira know that. We see players obviously and constantly slipping away from their game and we don't note corrections to that. Its not apparent, often, what feedback mechanism is in place and how efficient its been.
 
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Dohilers

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Dec 18, 2011
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I expect he'll be back before the end of the month. There are so many new faces, I think the coaching staff/management wants to give a few guys a longer look to see where they fit. I suspect someone will be demoted or released from their NHL contract to return overseas within the first 10 games with Gagner taking their roster spot.
 

Perfect_Drug

Registered User
Mar 24, 2006
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Montreal
You are overthinking it. Professinal sports is a business and everyone, including players and their agents know it. There are only so many NHL jobs to go around. Gagner, Burdasov and Rieder are just not good enough players.

This is speculation on my part, but personally knowing a few bubble players / journeymen a lot of those late cuts are largely political decisions.

Gagner was not an acquisition of Hollands. He owes him absolutely nothing.
Gagner was not professionally scouted by our revamped scouting dept. He isn't a Tyler Wright guy.

Jurco on the other hand has previous ties with Holland and Wright. For all we know, Jurco might have just been put into a situation in a system with players and linemates and deployment in a system where he is more likely to succeed.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
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I think Holland said that Gagner is going to Bakersfield in yesterday's media scrum. Was only listening with half an ear though so I am not sure.

edit: I see it was already mentioned by BBO above, so he is going down.

Likely just a paper transaction.
 

joestevens29

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
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This is speculation on my part, but personally knowing a few bubble players / journeymen a lot of those late cuts are largely political decisions.

Gagner was not an acquisition of Hollands. He owes him absolutely nothing.
Gagner was not professionally scouted by our revamped scouting dept. He isn't a Tyler Wright guy.

Jurco on the other hand has previous ties with Holland and Wright. For all we know, Jurco might have just been put into a situation in a system with players and linemates and deployment in a system where he is more likely to succeed.
The political side that also comes in is not being willing to lose guys early on. Waiving Gagner means we get a longer look at a lot of other question marks. These guys fail then you waive them and bring up Gagner.

The alternative of waiving whoever now only to lose them isn't exactly smart business. Say Jurco did get waived and claimed, but Gagner also is struggling. You all of a sudden have less fall back options. You also hope that Gagner goes down and plays with a chip on his shoulder. Wasn't Currie and Gambardella fighting the other day? That's the kind of motivation you like to see from guys that are sent down.
 
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Bangers

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May 31, 2006
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While I would rather have Gagner on the roster than some of the other players that stayed up, I can kind of understand this move.

There was zero chance another team claims Gagner at his current contract (unlike someone like Khaira), so sending him down essentially allows the team to keep another player.

He'll play games for the Oil this season.
 

tiger_80

Registered User
Apr 11, 2007
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This is speculation on my part, but personally knowing a few bubble players / journeymen a lot of those late cuts are largely political decisions.

Gagner was not an acquisition of Hollands. He owes him absolutely nothing.
Gagner was not professionally scouted by our revamped scouting dept. He isn't a Tyler Wright guy.

Jurco on the other hand has previous ties with Holland and Wright. For all we know, Jurco might have just been put into a situation in a system with players and linemates and deployment in a system where he is more likely to succeed.

Maybe, but are Holland and Tippet their own enemy? Obviously if they thought Gagner was a better player than Jurco, Nygard and others they would not worry about the politics of it. Tippett said it clearly why he's not on the team. They wanted faster, more aggressive bottom 6 and at this point of his career Gagner is not a top 6 player. That said, he will be up in a hurry if something happens and who cares how much he gets paid in the AHL.
 

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