Dreger: Sam Bennett and Flames contract rumors [MOD WARNING: 235]

[Flameshomer]

That's bad asset management risk to take on when we are sorely missing picks in the next few drafts.



Well, the other player that agent reps has also not signed, so I don't know if it's all our organization's fault the deal isn't' done yet.

Where's the real risk. You say this type of stuff often, but we're not hurting for prospects or young nhl players, so where does it come from?

Rasmus has three RHD, all relatively young, and signed for the next 3 years ahead of him. He's a great prospect, but not really needed in our system. He sure looks like he's better than just an injury fill in.

Bennett, while promising, has yet to really show much sustained success in the league. Another season on this trajectory will tank his value. At this point, we're hoping he comes close to duchene (while not as tough, or a hitter he has a good defensive game).

I agree that it might be tough to keep duchene long term, but if we were thinking Bennett would need a raise in a few years, we could get rid of a contract (frolik, stajan?) or sign someone else to a bridge to make it work. You make our cap situation sound way less fluid than it is.

 

[Freaky Styley]

Oops, I didn't realize he still had 2 seasons left. I thought it was only 1. My bad. That makes it more palatable and worth pursuing. Idea wise I don't mind it, but I don't feel comfortable moving Valimaki. However, I also struggle to understand how we retain him after the contract expires.

Your GM has 2 years to figure that out. I get you have to extend Backlund next season but beyond that Stajan will be coming off the books and the biggest hurdle would be pawning off Brouwer. You might have to entice someone to take him (Vegas) but it's not impossible. Plus paying a guy like Stone 3.5M to play the 3rd pairing isn't cost efficient so that could be another trade avenue. It can definitely work for Calgary and fills a major need for them IMO, especially because Duchene has played RW before. Has the potential to be a good trade for both teams.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Duchene
Moneyhands
Backlund

would be lethal...if the money is right, i think Duchene would strongly consider a long term extension, juggling those contracts would be difficult but not impossible

I'm an Avs fan who has consistently called the Flames the dark horse in this race. That 1-2-3 down the middle as you said is crazy. But the best part is Duchene's flexibility. He's as good on the wing as he is down the middle. If Backlund proves to be as good as he was last year he can easily hold down the 2C spot on his own and Duchene can take over the RW spot beside Jonny and Monahan which would be nuts.

Also the Flames just made it pretty clear they they're intending to contend with that Hamonic trade. That doesn't mean they need to send all their futures out but it certainly means a Duchene type would certainly be on their radar if the price is right.

 

[Fig]

Where's the real risk. You say this type of stuff often, but we're not hurting for prospects or young nhl players, so where does it come from?

Rasmus has three RHD, all relatively young, and signed for the next 3 years ahead of him. He's a great prospect, but not really needed in our system. He sure looks like he's better than just an injury fill in.

Bennett, while promising, has yet to really show much sustained success in the league. Another season on this trajectory will tank his value. At this point, we're hoping he comes close to duchene (while not as tough, or a hitter he has a good defensive game).

I agree that it might be tough to keep duchene long term, but if we were thinking Bennett would need a raise in a few years, we could get rid of a contract (frolik, stajan?) or sign someone else to a bridge to make it work. You make our cap situation sound way less fluid than it is.

1. Injury fill in on D. We have pieces on the farm to fill in almost all positions except for C. Now, Bennett for Duchene doesn't affect this because all our Centre depth are wingers on our roster. Our roster was weirdly healthy last season. It doesn't always work that way.

Andersson is our only RD even close. LD we have a few options, but those options are also inferior and expecting that Kulak and TSpoon don't stumble. I'd rather have Valimaki as an option (Someone blue chip who looks pretty certain to be an NHL regular within a few years) until we know what we have in TSpoon/Kulak who might be 6/7 or non-NHL calibre. Theoretically like we believed Bennett "should" be good enough this season at 3C (he wasn't, but at least developed), we cannot assume TSpoon and Kulak are good enough long term for the bottom pairing just as we cannot assume the farm will be adequate enough to fill gaps as veterans move on.

2. Cost certainty

The following need extensions and are likely raises:

Now: Bennett
17-18: Backlund, Goalie 2
18-19: Duchene*, Lazar, Tkachuk, Ferland, Goalie 1
----------------------------
19-20: Stone, Brodie, Frolik, Brouwer /// Potential Lockout?

Locking in Bennett gives Treliving a good idea what happens in +1 and +2 years for cost certainty. However, moving Bennett for Duchene makes it harder to predict that later on and could add to a mess in 18-19. Lockout predicted for 2020 adds an additional facet of difficulty to navigate.

Sure, we could trade a guy to fit Duchene, but that's still assets out. But trading at that period might not work due to a looming lockout. The salary we will drop is also too low.

3. Talent injection

We have decent bottom 6 and bottom pairing coming on the farm, but we don't really have an expectation to add much in the next few drafts. This means we would be at the mercy of kid development and/or UFA. UFA has not been Treliving's strong suit, and many posters lament the graduation rate of our prospects.

The problem is, if any stumble, we don't have assets to re-roll. Valimaki and Bennett would be great at that time.


To be honest, I really want to consummate that Duchene deal, but it's a "devil you know" situation for me that makes me scared to leap without looking. If you poke at my posting history, I've been poking at the Duchene idea since early summer. But with Hamonic coming in and we being down so many first and second rounders, doing that Duchene trade is extremely risky.


I would not cry foul if Treliving traded for Duchene. But let's not pretend moving Bennett+ for Duchene isn't devoid of risk. Big picture wise, there are other complications that need to be looked at.

Our roster would be so dynamic and nasty to play against for 2 seasons if we acquired Duchene though. I salivate at that thought. I'd also believe Backlund to be on the way out if we acquired Duchene. There's really no point to try and keep him if our centre depth at approx 5 mil AAV when it projects as this in 2/3 seasons:

Monahan
Duchene*
Backlund* (One or the other? Or we do move one to wing?)
Jankowski
Lazar
F Hamilton


Sure, maybe it's not as "dire" as I implied, but again, still not without risk. We'd probably have to move players to make it work, but yeah... doable.

 

[t0nedeff]

Anyone looking at Bennett's point totals as indicative of his ability should look at the situations he was put in. He was not used in an offensive role at all, and was saddled with garbage linemates for 90% of the season.

I almost want to go find old Yakupov threads cause this post is basically a copy of what Oiler fans were saying about him and I'm sure those threads are littered with Flames fans telling us how much the Oilers suck and how terrible of a player and pick he was. Now all of a sudden you got that same excuse being thrown at Bennett but somehow he's different and should still be seen as a valuable asset.

 

[CraigsList]

Your GM has 2 years to figure that out. I get you have to extend Backlund next season but beyond that Stajan will be coming off the books and the biggest hurdle would be pawning off Brouwer. You might have to entice someone to take him (Vegas) but it's not impossible. Plus paying a guy like Stone 3.5M to play the 3rd pairing isn't cost efficient so that could be another trade avenue. It can definitely work for Calgary and fills a major need for them IMO, especially because Duchene has played RW before. Has the potential to be a good trade for both teams.

Considering that your GM has turned down ridiculously good offers, would they even accept Bennett and a D prospect? My answer is no, he wants more but he's not going to get it.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Considering that your GM has turned down ridiculously good offers, would they even accept Bennett and a D prospect? My answer is no, he wants more but he's not going to get it.

IF the D prospect was Valimaki I could see it since the Avs apparently really like him. If it's anybody else they definitely wouldn't accept it.

 

[CraigsList]

IF the D prospect was Valimaki I could see it since the Avs apparently really like him. If it's anybody else they definitely wouldn't accept it.

The only way Valimaki goes back is if you take Brouwer back with you. It's pointless though, Valimaki was just picked. Would be stupid for us to trade him when it's uncertain what his value his at this point.

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

I think a decent comparable would be Connor Brown off of the leafs. Similar style player, similar ages (Bennett being just shy of 2 years younger), Bennett has the edge in experience and with the ability to play center, Brown with a very slight scoring edge and slightly better defensive play. Brown got 2.1 for 3 years, and that still leaves him as an rfa. Bennett should get arguably anywhere between 2.25-3.25 For 2-4 years. Anything within those ranges is entirely reasonable and fair.

 

[blankall]

I almost want to go find old Yakupov threads cause this post is basically a copy of what Oiler fans were saying about him and I'm sure those threads are littered with Flames fans telling us how much the Oilers suck and how terrible of a player and pick he was. Now all of a sudden you got that same excuse being thrown at Bennett but somehow he's different and should still be seen as a valuable asset.

Yakupov and Bennett play two entirely different games. These comparisons need to stop and have no logical basis whatsoever. Yes, they are both players who had low point totals in year two, and that's about the only comparable.

Bennett has a plethora of intagibles that will make him a very solid depth player, even if he never puts his full offensive game together. Here's Bennett fighting the much bigger Trouba and Johansen fights, and winning:



Yakupov, without an offensive game, is useless. Bennett, on the other hand, will always have a place on the team. He is only 21 right now. His offensive game could get better or could go the way of Yakupov, that has yet to be seen. Comparing him to Yakupov, merely because his Year 2 numbers were decreased is ridiculous. There are plenty of players who had bad year 2 numbers but then drastically increased their numbers after that. It's like saying because I flipped one coin and it came up heads, all the other coins will be heads...I hope you see the flaw.

 

[Razzdazzle1]

I almost want to go find old Yakupov threads cause this post is basically a copy of what Oiler fans were saying about him and I'm sure those threads are littered with Flames fans telling us how much the Oilers suck and how terrible of a player and pick he was. Now all of a sudden you got that same excuse being thrown at Bennett but somehow he's different and should still be seen as a valuable asset.

If Yakupov and Bennett had the same offensive output I would take Bennett every day of the week for his aggression, drive to the net ability and the guy fights. He's exactly what you need to win playoff games.

Tkachuk, Bennett Ferland line will be the McDavid killers in a few years. Who's going to stop these guys?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

I don't get why fans say this . I am sure it a buff but a player that is not under contract has tons of leverage . He can go oversea and play and nothing you can do about it . GM,s also have to be careful you really don't want to **** a young player off that has potential . I think it is the reason Chia over paid Draisaitl . He keeps the team united and the young studs happy

For every year that SB doesn't plays at least 40 games in the NHL (to a maximum of 2) his UFA eligibility is delayed. It is pretty much every players goal to get UFA eligiblity ASAP because that is when they have almost all the leverage in the contract negotiations.

Also, most NA players don't want to play in Europe/Russia if they've the ability to play in the NHL. It is an option, but it is more of a theoretical threat than an actual one IMO.

 

[blankall]

If Yakupov and Bennett had the same offensive output I would take Bennett every day of the week for his aggression, drive to the net ability and the guy fights. He's exactly what you need to win playoff games.

Tkachuk, Bennett Ferland line will be the McDavid killers in a few years. Who's going to stop these guys?

If Bennett can become a 50-60 point centre, the Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland line would be one of the best and hardest to play against 2nd lines in the NHL. Speaks to Bennett's versatility as a player. He doesn't need to develop into a 1st line C to have value. There's plenty of other roles he can play up and down the lineup.

 

[FlamerForLife]

If Yakupov and Bennett had the same offensive output I would take Bennett every day of the week for his aggression, drive to the net ability and the guy fights. He's exactly what you need to win playoff games.

Tkachuk, Bennett Ferland line will be the McDavid killers in a few years. Who's going to stop these guys?

you need to relax.

 

[DFF]

If Yakupov and Bennett had the same offensive output I would take Bennett every day of the week for his aggression, drive to the net ability and the guy fights. He's exactly what you need to win playoff games.

Both were high draft pick, expected to be superstar. Yakupov is a proven bust. Bennetted has proven to be at least a valuable 3rd liner. He has 1 may be 2 yrs to prove if he can be a star.

 

[djpatm]

If Bennett can become a 50-60 point centre, the Tkachuk-Bennett-Ferland line would be one of the best and hardest to play against 2nd lines in the NHL. Speaks to Bennett's versatility as a player. He doesn't need to develop into a 1st line C to have value. There's plenty of other roles he can play up and down the lineup.

If he doesn't become that 1st line center though, was his value higher as a trade piece this summer and ultimately, was it a mistake to not move him.

That's what we'll look back on. 50-60 point center would be gravy.

40 point center would be less so.

 

[Razzdazzle1]

you need to relax.

You see lots of other 19-20yr olds hitting, fighting, drawing penalties and have offensive skill? I don't.

When they eventually fill out and become men they'll be a force. Is that really hard for you to See? [MOD]

 

[Soundwave]

You see lots of other 19-20yr olds hitting, fighting, drawing penalties and have offensive skill? I don't.

When they eventually fill out and become men they'll be a force. Is that really hard for you to See? Or you just blinded by your new bright orange McDavid jersey?

Keep digging that hole buddy.

 

[FlamerForLife]

You see lots of other 19-20yr olds hitting, fighting, drawing penalties and have offensive skill? I don't.

When they eventually fill out and become men they'll be a force. Is that really hard for you to See? Or you just blinded by your new bright orange McDavid jersey?

I hope you're right pal.

 

[madmike77]

I almost want to go find old Yakupov threads cause this post is basically a copy of what Oiler fans were saying about him and I'm sure those threads are littered with Flames fans telling us how much the Oilers suck and how terrible of a player and pick he was. Now all of a sudden you got that same excuse being thrown at Bennett but somehow he's different and should still be seen as a valuable asset.

The big difference is Yakupov was given every opportunity to succeed - first line minutes and plenty of PP time.

Bennett has had neither. He's played 3rd line minutes and had essentially 0 PP time until late last season. He hasn't been a superstar, but it's not entirely his fault. Unless he can play RW, he has to prove he's better than Monahan, Backlund, Gaudreau or Tkachuk - which is unlikely.

I don't think the Flames will ultimately have room for all 5 of those guys, but it doesn't mean they should give up Bennett or any of the others for peanuts.

 

[Da McBomb]

Tkachuk, Bennett Ferland line will be the McDavid killers in a few years. Who's going to stop these guys?

 

[blankall]

If he doesn't become that 1st line center though, was his value higher as a trade piece this summer and ultimately, was it a mistake to not move him.

That's what we'll look back on. 50-60 point center would be gravy.

40 point center would be less so.

His value really isn't all that high right now. No one is valuing Bennett as a sure-fire #1 Centre in any trade proposal.

 

[qwerty]

I almost want to go find old Yakupov threads cause this post is basically a copy of what Oiler fans were saying about him and I'm sure those threads are littered with Flames fans telling us how much the Oilers suck and how terrible of a player and pick he was. Now all of a sudden you got that same excuse being thrown at Bennett but somehow he's different and should still be seen as a valuable asset.

The difference is Sam Bennett has the grit and ability to play with an edge that suits a 3rd line or 4th line position whereas Yakupov proved that he liability anywhere he played.

I honestly don't care if Sam Bennett never lives up to the hype that was bestowed upon him because being drafted #4 doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. It's just a number at the end of the day and the expectations for him should just be to carve out a long NHL career. Nothing more.

The NHL is littered with early round busts and to me, Sam has already proven to be a full timer NHLer and there's no shame in that regardless when he was drafted. I mean the 2 top players on the Flames currently were either drafted 104th overall or weren't drafted at all. That proves the draft is a total crapshoot anyway. People really just need to let this kid breathe, enough of the terrible proposals and the what's wrong him threads already; It's tiresome.

 

[dss97]

Bennett is delusional if he thinks he's getting anymore than 2 million per.

 

[Skobel24]

If he doesn't become that 1st line center though, was his value higher as a trade piece this summer and ultimately, was it a mistake to not move him.

That's what we'll look back on. 50-60 point center would be gravy.

40 point center would be less so.

Honestly, even if Bennett became a 30-40 point center, it's still not a bad thing. He's shown he has a good defensive game and can play with an edge, it's not like he'd be some one dimensional player. Is it really so bad if he winds up as a poor mans O'Reilly? (or if you don't agree with the O'Reilly comparison, a strong 3rd line center?)