Salary Cap: Salary Cap/UFA/RFA Discussion

[Blind Gardien]

Let's call it what it is, Olli Jokinen got traded yesterday and he's a terrible hockey player at this point but got a roster player and a pick back.

That's again a matter of timing, though. On June 15th, no team trades for a signed Olli Jokinen. Especially not cap teams. Ditto Parenteau. They all think they can sign better players for less than $4M, and they are going to try to do so on the UFA market first. It's only later on if they end up with an opening, they *might* consider taking on that player.

For sure, I could see getting something like a late round pick for Parenteau at next year's trade deadline, assuming his health and play didn't degrade too badly before then. But we need to free up his cap hit and roster spot much sooner than that.

 

[Agalloch]

makes no sense to sign Tinordi to a two way when there's no chance he's getting sent down. If he doesn't make the Habs next season he has to be traded, why risk losing him for nothing?

They did the same with Tokarski this year.

 

[Monctonscout]

I would strongly consider buying out PAP, 4M is way too much for what he brings. I hope that the Habs can find a way to improve the roster somehow to bring in more scoring but we'll have to see where the cap ends up and who's on the trade and FA market.

A buy out or trade with retained salary is definitely an option, assuming he doesn't take off in the coming months and play a lot better.

I think he can be traded. A lot of people rave about negative value but plays on the UFA market cost an arm and a leg in a bidding war. See guys like Bolland, Clarkson, etc...

Add in ridiculous term which compounds the risk OR you have a buy low option with PAP on a 1 year term remaining. Some teams would see that as a low risk play if the price is low.

I'm sure you can trade Parenteau, but what good is it if you have to take on an equally bad contract. Toronto traded Clarkson but had to eat Horton's terrible deal.

I'm sure if we can trade Parenteau for an injured player with 1 year left at 3-4 mil that we can put on LTIR, we would do it.

 

[kazmanian]

I would strongly consider buying out PAP, 4M is way too much for what he brings. I hope that the Habs can find a way to improve the roster somehow to bring in more scoring but we'll have to see where the cap ends up and who's on the trade and FA market.

You definitely could trade PAP. Either for a late pick or an unknown prospect. Definitely doable

 

[Habsrule]

MB has found takers for worse players.

End of the day, PAP needs a strong ending but I think he can be of value.

Let's call it what it is, Olli Jokinen got traded yesterday and he's a terrible hockey player at this point but got a roster player and a pick back.

PAP can be traded and I believe the cap uncertainty can be used as a selling point as many teams may not want to pay big bucks long term without knowing the salary cap 2-3-4 years from now.

The Jokinen and Patenteau situations are not even close to the same. Just say that the deadline is at the 75% mark of the season. It is very close to that and easier to work with a rounded number. Jokinen had a cap hit of 1.5 million. Pro-rated it works out to a 375k cap hit. Teams can easily swallow that to take a chance. To trade Parenteau at the start of the season would be a four million dollar cap hit the team getting him. If Montreal were to try to move him next year at the trade deadline he would have already been payed three out of his four million dollars. To save one million on the cap and to get a minimal return makes very little sense.

 

[Monctonscout]

You definitely could trade PAP. Either for a late pick or an unknown prospect. Definitely doable

Not without taking back a bad contract.

I bet if MB put PAP on waivers today that he clears. Even in the off season, nobody takes him at 4 mil cap hit. Maybe if we eat 1-1.5 mil, that's best case.

 

[montreal]

They did the same with Tokarski this year.

The difference is Tok could clear waivers but Tinordi as a 1st round pick won't, so there's no need to give him a two way since there's way he's going to be sent down since some team will take him for sure.

You definitely could trade PAP. Either for a late pick or an unknown prospect. Definitely doable

Perhaps they can, only 29 GM's can say one way or the other, I don't see it but I guess we'll find out. If not I would hope they buy him out unless he somehow plays a lot better.

 

[BigHabs]

Next year I expect Flynn to be re-signed as he is an RFA as well as Mitchell he is more offensive than Malhotra. Plus he is also local. Petry seems like this could be a guy with size and mobility who is still you to get locked up.

I believe that Parenteau and Eller will be dealt in the offseason.

Bournival could possibly be brought back for 13th forward but I could see a vet guy with grit and size. Just looking at the roster above got 7 guys under 27 up front.

Would really like to get that true #1 center just don't know how we can get one along with a top 6 forward.

I could really see the Habs looking in the offseason at these players:

Justin Williams
Scottie Upshall
Adam Mcquaid


Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Plekanec Williams
Prust De La Rose Smith-Pelly
Upshall Mitchell Weise
Flynn / Bournival

Markov Subban
Beaulieu Petry
Emelin Gilbert
McQuaid / Pateryn / Tinordi

Price
Tokarski

 

[Agalloch]

The difference is Tok could clear waivers but Tinordi as a 1st round pick won't, so there's no need to give him a two way since there's way he's going to be sent down since some team will take him for sure.

Yea he 'could' but in this case Tinordi too. Anybody 'could' clear waivers. I still think they will give him a 2 way to not give the spot to him without a fight but at the end of the day, he will be with the team full time anyway.

Next year I expect Flynn to be re-signed as he is an RFA as well as Mitchell he is more offensive than Malhotra. Plus he is also local. Petry seems like this could be a guy with size and mobility who is still you to get locked up.

I believe that Parenteau and Eller will be dealt in the offseason.

Bournival could possibly be brought back for 13th forward but I could see a vet guy with grit and size. Just looking at the roster above got 7 guys under 27 up front.

Would really like to get that true #1 center just don't know how we can get one along with a top 6 forward.

I could really see the Habs looking in the offseason at these players:

Justin Williams
Scottie Upshall
Adam Mcquaid


Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Plekanec Williams
Prust De La Rose Smith-Pelly
Upshall Mitchell Weise
Flynn / Bournival

Markov Subban
Beaulieu Petry
Emelin Gilbert
McQuaid / Pateryn / Tinordi

Price
Tokarski

Prust should have less responsabilities next year and I expect us to put Galchenyuk at center, so we will need upgrades on the LW. Trading Eller for a LW would be something I see Bergevin do. I don't see a place for Desharnais long term. I could see someone like Andrighetto making the team to play on the second line.

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Andrighetto-Plekanec-Smith Pelly
??-De La Rose-Weise
Bournival/Prust-Mitchell-Flynn

Traded: Parenteau, Eller, Desharnais
Gone to UFA: Malhotra

 

[Monctonscout]

Next year I expect Flynn to be re-signed as he is an RFA as well as Mitchell he is more offensive than Malhotra. Plus he is also local. Petry seems like this could be a guy with size and mobility who is still you to get locked up.

I believe that Parenteau and Eller will be dealt in the offseason.

Bournival could possibly be brought back for 13th forward but I could see a vet guy with grit and size. Just looking at the roster above got 7 guys under 27 up front.

Would really like to get that true #1 center just don't know how we can get one along with a top 6 forward.

I could really see the Habs looking in the offseason at these players:

Justin Williams
Scottie Upshall
Adam Mcquaid


Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Plekanec Williams
Prust De La Rose Smith-Pelly
Upshall Mitchell Weise
Flynn / Bournival

Markov Subban
Beaulieu Petry
Emelin Gilbert
McQuaid / Pateryn / Tinordi

Price
Tokarski

Where does McQuaid fit? You can't keep 9 d-men in a 23 player roster. McQuaid makes no sense as Tinordi will be here.

Yea he 'could' but in this case Tinordi too. Anybody 'could' clear waivers. I still think they will give him a 2 way to not give the spot to him without a fight but at the end of the day, he will be with the team full time anyway.

I think Tinordi will get a 1 way and the big reason why is it lowers his cap hit. There is no chance the Habs waive him or send him down so it costs them less.

Prust should have less responsabilities next year and I expect us to put Galchenyuk at center, so we will need upgrades on the LW. Trading Eller for a LW would be something I see Bergevin do. I don't see a place for Desharnais long term. I could see someone like Andrighetto making the team to play on the second line.

Pacioretty-Galchenyuk-Gallagher
Andrighetto-Plekanec-Smith Pelly
??-De La Rose-Weise
Bournival/Prust-Mitchell-Flynn

Traded: Parenteau, Eller, Desharnais
Gone to UFA: Malhotra

Desharnais they have 2 choices. They can either trade him, part of a pkg for a winger or just for pick(s) + prospect. Or they can keep him for center depth if Eller is traded and play him C or LW. Play him with DLR are Weise/Flynn on the 3rd line, would be an upgrade from this year's 3rd line.

On your list Hudon could be an option also.

 

[montreal]

Yea he 'could' but in this case Tinordi too. Anybody 'could' clear waivers. I still think they will give him a 2 way to not give the spot to him without a fight but at the end of the day, he will be with the team full time anyway.

No way does Tinordi clear waviers imo, just don't see how some team wouldn't take a shot on a 6'5 defensemen. I also don't see the Habs even considering sending him down so I don't see any reason to give him a two way. I would assume he gets a one way on the cheap.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Pacioretty Desharnais Gallagher
Galchenyuk Plekanec Williams
Prust De La Rose Smith-Pelly
Upshall Mitchell Weise
Flynn / Bournival

Markov Subban
Beaulieu Petry
Emelin Gilbert
McQuaid / Pateryn / Tinordi

Price
Tokarski

Yep that's how you build a winner in the NHL.

You draft a player 3dr overall, refer to him as a center constantly and then just play him on the wing forever because that's where he's "comfortable".

Oh yeah, and trade a big, responsible 2 way centerman...because he isn't as good offensively as you hoped.

If this team is still employing Desharnais in 2015/2016 there's only one reason for it. Favouritism.

 

[smirob]

If Galchenyuk isn't at the very least a 2nd line centre next season, we are in serious trouble long term. We drafted him to be our #1 Centre, if he isn't we need to draft one ASAP.

It will be interesting to see what Bergevin does this offseason.

We currently have:

58.775 M in signed players, assuming the cap goes up to 72M = 13.225M

IMO one of DD/Eller will be moved =3.5M *I personally think both could be moved.
+ PAP =4M
+Emelin = 4.1M

So we could have 28.325M to work with (*if both Eller/DD moved)

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Sharp Sharp in a trade w/ Chicago (5.9M)
Belesky-Galchenyuk-Gallagher -Galchenyuk resigned for 2 yr (3.75M)/Belesky as UFA (3.5M)
Hudon-DLR-DSP - Hudon @625K
Prust-Mitchell/Flynn-Weise (Flynn or Mitchell resigned at 1M)

Markov-Subban
Beaulieu-Petry Beaulieu 2 yr 2.5M, Petry 3 year 4.5M
Tinordi-Gilbert

So assuming those values are accurate; we would have 6.55M remaining.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

Sounds like the cap will be closer to 69 than 72.

I wouldn't trade Eller to sign Belesky for the same amount. Dude has a 16.7% shooting percentage. His goals this year are just an outlier.

 

[smirob]

Sounds like the cap will be closer to 69 than 72.

I wouldn't trade Eller to sign Belesky for the same amount. Dude has a 16.7% shooting percentage. His goals this year are just an outlier.

Realistically, Eller AND DD could be expendable imo.

Getting an actual winger (ideally with some size/physicality) would be preferable than placing both on the wings.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

I see Eller as being expendable after the 2015/2016 season when De La Rose is actually ready to be a solid 3rd line center.

He looks great right now,but there's a reason the league isn't full of checking line teenagers

 

[Monctonscout]

If Galchenyuk isn't at the very least a 2nd line centre next season, we are in serious trouble long term. We drafted him to be our #1 Centre, if he isn't we need to draft one ASAP.

It will be interesting to see what Bergevin does this offseason.

We currently have:

58.775 M in signed players, assuming the cap goes up to 72M = 13.225M

IMO one of DD/Eller will be moved =3.5M *I personally think both could be moved.
+ PAP =4M
+Emelin = 4.1M

So we could have 28.325M to work with (*if both Eller/DD moved)

Pacioretty-Plekanec-Sharp Sharp in a trade w/ Chicago (5.9M)
Belesky-Galchenyuk-Gallagher -Galchenyuk resigned for 2 yr (3.75M)/Belesky as UFA (3.5M)
Hudon-DLR-DSP - Hudon @625K
Prust-Mitchell/Flynn-Weise (Flynn or Mitchell resigned at 1M)

Markov-Subban
Beaulieu-Petry Beaulieu 2 yr 2.5M, Petry 3 year 4.5M
Tinordi-Gilbert

So assuming those values are accurate; we would have 6.55M remaining.

I think you have to put Galchenyuk at center next year. This year has gone as planned, he made some big gains offensively and got a taste of playing center. Next year you move him there full time.

Sounds like the cap will be closer to 69 than 72.

I wouldn't trade Eller to sign Belesky for the same amount. Dude has a 16.7% shooting percentage. His goals this year are just an outlier.

Yeah, Beleskey would be a risky signing. 26 year old guy with 35 goals in 264 games prior to this year. Anything over 2 mil/year might be overpayment.

Realistically, Eller AND DD could be expendable imo.

Getting an actual winger (ideally with some size/physicality) would be preferable than placing both on the wings.

I think you have to keep one of Eller/DD in case there is an injury to one of the top 2 guys, plus having Galchenyuk at #2 and DLR as #3 center is a tad young. Using Desharnais as #3 C might be the best way to have a balanced offense, maybe play him with a guy like Andrighetto who can finsh plus Weise, then use the 4th line as a defensive line Prust-DLR-Mitchell/Flynn etc

 

[smirob]

I think you have to put Galchenyuk at center next year. This year has gone as planned, he made some big gains offensively and got a taste of playing center. Next year you move him there full time.



Yeah, Beleskey would be a risky signing. 26 year old guy with 35 goals in 264 games prior to this year. Anything over 2 mil/year might be overpayment.



I think you have to keep one of Eller/DD in case there is an injury to one of the top 2 guys, plus having Galchenyuk at #2 and DLR as #3 center is a tad young. Using Desharnais as #3 C might be the best way to have a balanced offense, maybe play him with a guy like Andrighetto who can finsh plus Weise, then use the 4th line as a defensive line Prust-DLR-Mitchell/Flynn etc

I agree, Belesky is a risk. I assumed an overpayment of some sort would be required to get him as a ufa.

If my math is correct (and may not be) even keeping one of DD/Eller leaves us with some cap space provided the other moves are made. So fine by me if one is kept to provide some security.

 

[CanadienShark]

Tokarski
Price

Pateryn - Tinordi
Petry* - Beaulieu
Subban - Markov

Weise - Mitchell - Flynn
DSP - Eller - DLR
Gallagher - Plekanec - Ghetto/Hudon
Scherbak/McCarron - Galchenyuk - Pacioretty

Oh a man can dream...

 

[smirob]

Tokarski
Price

Pateryn - Tinordi
Petry* - Beaulieu
Subban - Markov

Weise - Mitchell - Flynn
DSP - Eller - DLR
Gallagher - Plekanec - Ghetto/Hudon
Scherbak/McCarron - Galchenyuk - Pacioretty

Oh a man can dream...

I had to use 2 sets of mirrors to see that correctly

 

[CanadienShark]

I had to use 2 sets of mirrors to see that correctly

Took me a couple mins to type it.

 

[rockjngo]

Team Depth & Salary Cap

2015-2016

Forward:

1. Max Pacioretty - Alex Galchenyuk - Brendan Gallagher

Pacioretty $4,500,000
Galchenyuk $4,000,000 ??
Gallagher $3,750,000

2. ? - Tomas Plekanec - ?

Plekanec $5,000,000

3. Michael Bournival - Jacob De La Rose - Devante Smith-Pelly

De La Rose $925,000
Smith-Pelly $800,000
Bournival $660,000

4. Brandon Prust - Brian Flynn - Torrey Mitchell/Dale Weise

Prust $2,500,000
Flynn $637,500
Mitchell $950,000
Weise $1,025,000


Defense:

1. Andrei Markov - PK Subban

Subban $9,000,000
Markov $5,750,000

2. Nathan Beaulieu - Jeff Petry

Petry $4,500,000 ??
Beaulieu $2,000,000 ??

3. Alexei Emelin - Tom Gilbert

Emelin $4,100,000
Gilbert $2,800,000

Extra:
Greg Pateryn $562,500


Goalies:

1. Carey Price $6,500,000
2. Dustin Tokarski $562,500


Comments:
I excluded David Desharnais and Lars Eller because DD cannot produce without Pacioretty but Pacioretty produces with or without DD. DD isn't a #1 center, not a big center, he's not a winger and he cannot forecheck to be a bottom 6. If he was a winger like Martin St Louis, he can fit on the 2nd line. With DLR, I think we can save cap space by trading Eller. Eller is a very good 3rd line center and penalty killer but lacks hockey sense to be a top 6 forward.

On defense I think Jarred Tinordi won't be back. He'll likely be traded at the Draft along with Lars Eller for a top 6 winger. David Desharnais might be a good fit for Arizona, Buffalo or Edmonton.

I don't want to rush Nikita Scherbak, Michael McCarron, Sven Andrighetto, or Charles Hudon. We need 2 second line wingers. Bergervin will be busy this summer. Not many good wingers this summer so I expect it'll come from trades.

P-A Parenteau, Manny Malhotra won't be back next season.
Sergei Gonchar, Bryan Allen, Mike Weaver won't be back next season.

 

[BaseballCoach]

We have 9 UFAs and 11 RFAs.

I suggest we re-sign two UFAs, Petry ($4.75M for 2nd pairing D) and Drewiske (for depth or Hamilton) and let go Malhotra, Mitchell, Allen, Gonchar, Weaver, McDonald and Engqvist

I would keep all 11 RFAs, slotting Galchenyuk, Beaulieu, Bournival, Flynn and Tinordi on the big club, send Nygren down as waiver-exempt and the other five (Thomas, Ellis, Tangradi, Bowman and Dumont) we'll take the chance they pass waivers.

That would bring us to 46 contracts, with 23 on the big club. If Galchenyuk gets a $4M bridge contract, we will be at around $71M on the cap. i would look to trade Gilbert for a pick or waiver-exempt prospect, and dump Parenteau for a pick as well, if we can.

We would then have another $5M or so for a top-6 forward, and another $700k or so for another 4th-5th line forward. And $1M to spare.

We should also consider whether there is an upgrade on Tokarski available at similar cost.

 

[montreal]

If I'm the Habs, I let go, Malhotra, Drewiske, Allen, Gonchar, Weaver, McDonald, and Bowman. Mitchell I will need to see more of as he might be worth keeping around on the 4th line on the cheap. Tangradi if he want to come back to help the Dogs then I would bring him back, but would assume he will leave for a better shot elsewhere.

So the Dogs will need to find some replacements, I would consider signing Hensick just for depth for the Dogs.

 

[Habsawce]

I think Scherbak makes the team out of camp and McCarron starts the year in Hamilton (probably spends 2 years there).

So having another ELC on the team bodes well for the cap.