Salary Cap: Salary Cap/UFA/RFA Discussion

[Stjonnypopo]

I don't see Bergevin risking another Subban-type situation with Galchenyuk. I think he'll get a deal right in between Gallagher's and Pacioretty's.

As for UFAs I think the one with the best chance of a new deal is Gonchar assuming he wants a reduced role. He's been good in his role so far and hasn't look out of place. He's obviously not as fast as he once was but he's not out of place.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I was surprised by the move yesterday to cut rates which saw a big drop in the loonie. I have over 15 years working for some of the top banks in the US and while I mainly just work with stocks and never trade any currencies it was still a surprise to see. So how does this relate to the Habs and the salary cap for next season, it was tweeted today that teams are being told that the cap won't go below 71M next year.

https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/557962484767010816

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/...bling-will-it-affect-next-seasons-salary-cap/

Currently the Habs have 32 players under contract for next season, 11 RFA's, and 6 UFA's. They have 3 players that need to be signed by the summer or we lose their rights. (Didier, MacMillan, Engqvist)

RFA's- Galchenyuk, Beauileu, Bournival, Thomas, Tinordi, Condon, Nygren, Tangradi, Bowman, Dumont, Ellis

UFA's- Gonchar, Weaver, Malhotra, Allen, MacDonald, Drewiske

In his league address today, Bettman said the cap will be no lower than $71,7 m and no higher than $72,2m.

Habs will be fine. Chucky will get more than Gally. I can see Chucky using Johansen as his comparable, so he could easily get $4m+. Hope Habs sign him long term like Gally.

 

[yianik]

Galchenyuk has 3 years in as a pro, so we have him for 4 more years as an RFA.

Signing him to 5 years is horrible as we only bite into one UFA year and that is no way to keep your top players or manage the Cap.

Sign Galchenyuk to a 2 year deal and then he has arbitration rights and so you dont have the hammer of letting him sit home if you cant work out a deal, like we can after this season. Not sure if he has arbitration rights if the deal is for 1 year, if he doesnt, then I go one year.

Only other option though is to sign him to an 8 year deal to big bucks and gamble he is what we think he is.

 

[montreal]

Galchenyuk - 3 years @ 3.75 per.
Beaulieu - 2 years @ 2.00 per
Bournival - 1 year @ 900 k
Tinordi - 1 year @ 900 k

I would be surprised if Galchenyuk's agent will go for a 3 year deal, last I heard they wanted a short term which makes sense.

The rest though are too high, no way should Beaulieu get 2M a year, Bournival should get the league min or close to it and Tinordi I could see getting a good bit less on a one way deal.

I don't see Bergevin risking another Subban-type situation with Galchenyuk. I think he'll get a deal right in between Gallagher's and Pacioretty's.

As for UFAs I think the one with the best chance of a new deal is Gonchar assuming he wants a reduced role. He's been good in his role so far and hasn't look out of place. He's obviously not as fast as he once was but he's not out of place.

Depends on what his agent thinks is best, don't see the risk in a short term deal.

Gary Bettman said today that if the Canadian dollar stays at 80 cents then the cap will most likely be around 72 Million.

hopefully it stays, 71M though should be enough for the Habs to make some improvements in the off-season.

 

[Richiebottles]

Galchenyuk has 3 years in as a pro, so we have him for 4 more years as an RFA.

Signing him to 5 years is horrible as we only bite into one UFA year and that is no way to keep your top players or manage the Cap.

Sign Galchenyuk to a 2 year deal and then he has arbitration rights and so you dont have the hammer of letting him sit home if you cant work out a deal, like we can after this season. Not sure if he has arbitration rights if the deal is for 1 year, if he doesnt, then I go one year.

Only other option though is to sign him to an 8 year deal to big bucks and gamble he is what we think he is.

I think we will see a 6 year deal. MB seems keen on that type of term and I like it.

I would do something around 4.5 X 6 backloaded contract. Chuck is right now a 60 point guy so he won't command the 6 mill + price tag plus we can have him for a long time on a solid deal.

 

[Habs76]

I would be surprised if Galchenyuk's agent will go for a 3 year deal, last I heard they wanted a short term which makes sense.

The rest though are too high, no way should Beaulieu get 2M a year, Bournival should get the league min or close to it and Tinordi I could see getting a good bit less on a one way deal.



Depends on what his agent thinks is best, don't see the risk in a short term deal.



hopefully it stays, 71M though should be enough for the Habs to make some improvements in the off-season.

I agree with your statement on Beaulieu, but disagree about Tinordi & Bournival
I could see something like this:

Galchenyuk - 2.5M/2 yrs
Beaulieu - 1.6M/3yrs
Tinordi - 1.1M/2yrs
Bournival - 965k/1yr

 

[c3z4r]

It seems worst case scenario will be $72 million for next season (currently projected for $73mil) as per LeBrun, which is better than anticipated. Should leave us with a couple millions for UFA.

https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/status/559032919541690368

 

[Teufelsdreck]

With the loon dropping vs the American bald eagle, the Habs might be in a good trading position vis-à-vis the Oilers, who, despite their wretched showing, abound with young talent. Of course, this situation should be even more promising for the Bruins, Lightning, and other US-based teams.

 

[calder candidate]

I would skip the bridge contract with Chucky if we can sign him on a similar deal to Patches.

Pretty sure Patch has fired is agent since because of that contract, I doubt many player will take that route in the future I think everyone will go short term and try to get maximum barganning power as they either hit UFA or sign a big deal before it there last year as RFA.

 

[lou4gehrig]

I don't see Bergevin risking another Subban-type situation with Galchenyuk. I think he'll get a deal right in between Gallagher's and Pacioretty's.

What situation is that? You mean the one where PK has evolved into a top five D and one of our franchise players? So he gets paid alot. He deserves it. He's a great player.

This boards fascination with underpaying all of our players so we can have more money to sign other players is ridiculous. This isn't a video game. There's nothing wrong with paying your best players the salaries they deserve.

When we signed Price it was overpaying. When we signed PK it was overpaying. Yet both have taken that respect and trust from the team and grown to be stud players. Players aren't motivated when they are underpaid and disrespected.

The league is short on great players. And with the cap increasing, the the potential of 2-3 new teams, there will be crazy amounts of money available. You have to take care of your guys before it turns into a Stasny & O'Reilly situation.

Right now there are 5 teams with $10M of unspent cap space and 13 teams with $3M+ left. Now add in a $3-$4M increase for all 30 teams ($120M) and potentially 2 new franchise ($145M) you're talking about an extra $250-$300M increase in annual contract value in the NHL.

And here you want to sit here and give Chucky (one of the most exciting prospects in the game) a team-friendly contract, just because?

Another example is that Ryan Johansen turned down $6M/2yrs, $32M/6 yrs, $46M/8 from Columbus. Why? Because it's only $6M/yr for the bulk of his career. Look at the year he's having. Don't you think 5 years from now he'll be worth alot more than $6M/yr? This is the exact same thing Chucky is telling himself. If he thinks he's a $7M+/yr player in his prime, why is going to sign for $5.5M or $6M?

Oh yeah he signed a 3yr/$12 contract. Expect Chucky to get annual salary at a minimum as more cap money is available around the league.

 

[beowulf]

who's betting we don't resign any of our impeding ufa's?

I could see Weaver if they can get him cheap as a 7th dman option. But none of them coming back is very possible.

 

[jaffy27]

I agree with your statement on Beaulieu, but disagree about Tinordi & Bournival
I could see something like this:

Galchenyuk - 2.5M/2 yrs
Beaulieu - 1.6M/3yrs
Tinordi - 1.1M/2yrs
Bournival - 965k/1yr

Your assessment on the bottom three are pretty good except I see Beaulieu close to 1.8M for the same term, Tinordi is bang on, Bournival is gonna be a tad less, maybe 700,000$ for 2yrs......but Galchenyuk dollars are wrong and so is the term. If they signed Gall for 6yrs, expect the same for Chuckie! I see about the same dollars as Pacioretty, and when that deal is done, he'll be 27yrs old and sign a 8 year deal at "X" amount of dollars. Like Gallagher, they know what they are getting from him, no need for a bridge contract...

 

[Habs76]

Your assessment on the bottom three are pretty good except I see Beaulieu close to 1.8M for the same term, Tinordi is bang on, Bournival is gonna be a tad less, maybe 700,000$ for 2yrs......but Galchenyuk dollars are wrong and so is the term. If they signed Gall for 6yrs, expect the same for Chuckie! I see about the same dollars as Pacioretty, and when that deal is done, he'll be 27yrs old and sign a 8 year deal at "X" amount of dollars. Like Gallagher, they know what they are getting from him, no need for a bridge contract...

I was pretty sure Galchenyuk asked for a short term deal, but I'd be fine with 4.5M/6yrs. My only problem there is that it would expire at the same time as Gally and then we'd be dishing out 2 monster contracts. If he gets long term then I'd like to see an 8 year or 5 year term.

I could see Weaver if they can get him cheap as a 7th dman option. But none of them coming back is very possible.

I could also see Gonchar if he goes cheap. Drewiske maybe for some D depth.

 

[Smokey Thompson]

If I'm not mistaken, Pateryn's contract is one-way next season.

 

[ThaDevilGirl]

I could also see Gonchar if he goes cheap. Drewiske maybe for some D depth.

DD44 is long gone next year . I really doubt he appreciated being sent down to the AHL.

 

[Leon Lucius Black]

DD44 is long gone next year . I really doubt he appreciated being sent down to the AHL.

He's on a one way deal making $650k in the AHL, I doubt he cares.

 

[montreal]

I agree with your statement on Beaulieu, but disagree about Tinordi & Bournival
I could see something like this:

Galchenyuk - 2.5M/2 yrs
Beaulieu - 1.6M/3yrs
Tinordi - 1.1M/2yrs
Bournival - 965k/1yr

Bournival is coming off his ELC, what has he done to warrant a raise like that? I hope he gets something like a 1 year 1 way @600k.

Tinordi hasn't made the NHL, why would he get a raise? I would think he'd get something like 1 year 1 way 700K.

Beaulieu I wouldn't sign him to a 3 year deal, he still has a long ways to go imo, 1 year 1 way @ 900K

 

[HabsDieHard*]

What situation is that? You mean the one where PK has evolved into a top five D and one of our franchise players? So he gets paid alot. He deserves it. He's a great player.

I love how people make it seem like Bergevin made a mistake with hte Subban contracts.

1st one was a "prove yourself" contract.

PK did just that.

2nd one was a "you proved yourself and earned big money" contract.

They signed a premiere defenceman in the NHL from the ages of 25-33.

For teams like the Habs the AAV doesn't really matter all that much. Not having to stress about PK being a UFA in his late 20's as he hits his prime is MUCH more important than having him at a bargain like 6 or 7 million.

Was a shrewd series of moves overall by Bergevin. He didn't cater to an unproven d-mans' demands and he got a premiere d-man locked up through his entire prime as a result of delaying the long term deal.

In a few years Karlsson, Doughty and Pietrangelo will be getting new contracts probably in the 10+ range and depending on how the situations turn out possibly be a distractor for the team.

Beaulieu I wouldn't sign him to a 3 year deal, he still has a long ways to go imo, 1 year 1 way @ 900K

Beaulieu is playing 20 minutes a night nad looking pretty good.

He also has the youth, speed and skill this teams' blue line is desperately lacking.

If he breaks out in a big way next year a 1 year deal could bite the Habs in the ass.

I'd much rather see a 2-3 year dael that might seem a bit high but could end up a nice bargain.

 

[jaffy27]

I was pretty sure Galchenyuk asked for a short term deal, but I'd be fine with 4.5M/6yrs. My only problem there is that it would expire at the same time as Gally and then we'd be dishing out 2 monster contracts. If he gets long term then I'd like to see an 8 year or 5 year term.

Oh...I was unaware about that Galchenyuk thing, I see what you're saying about the deals coming at the same time, don't know if it would be such a burden, Toews and Kane got deals at the same time so I'm thinking if they can do it, we should too, but what do I know lol

 

[Blind Gardien]

Pacioretty ($4.5M) - Plekanec ($5M) - Weise ($1.025M)
Galchenyuk (RFA) - Desharnais ($3.5M) - Gallager ($3.75M)
Sekac ($0.925/$1.35M) - Eller ($3.5M) - Parenteau ($4M)
Bournival (RFA) - xxx - Prust ($2.5M)
xxx

Markov ($5.75M) - Subban ($9M)
Emelin ($4.1M) - Gilbert ($2.8M)
Beaulieu (RFA) - Tinordi (RFA)
xxx

Price ($6.5M)
Tokarski ($0.5625M)

Before RFAs, that's $57.8375M. I think it would be fair to make the following RFA budgets:
Galchenyuk ($4M)
Bournival ($0.75M)
Beaulieu ($1.25M)
Tinordi ($1M)

So that is $64.8375M with 3-4 roster spots open. 2F, 1D minimum. It is $7.1625M in cap space on a $72M cap. There might be $0.425M more if you take the bonus cushion on Sekac.

So you can probably chase 1 fairly significant player anyway, even before trying to think of things to do with, say, Parenteau or Desharnais or Gilbert or any other seemingly liquidatable assets. I'd probably choose to allocate something like $5M on a top-4 D, then spread the remaining money up front, maybe $1M or so for a veteran depth forward like Malhotra, and then a kid who makes it in camp, maybe Andrighetto or DLR or Nygren or somebody else to round out the roster.

If I could make a move to free up Parenteau's hit, that would be good too, but I'm not taking on anybody else's dead wood/inefficient cap hit players in pretty much any scenario.

No headaches forthcoming anyway. I would call it a coup for Bergevin if he can land that top-4 D for something in the $4-5M ballpark, and then replace Parenteau with another $4-5M scoring winger who is... more of a scoring winger than Parenteau. And at least we're in a cap position where that kind of coup is within the realm of possibility.

 

[CanadienShark]

The only guy that could cause some trouble for us is Galchenyuk. I don't see Beaulieu being tough to sign.

 

[montreal]

Beaulieu is playing 20 minutes a night nad looking pretty good.

He also has the youth, speed and skill this teams' blue line is desperately lacking.

If he breaks out in a big way next year a 1 year deal could bite the Habs in the ass.

I'd much rather see a 2-3 year dael that might seem a bit high but could end up a nice bargain.

Beaulieu is playing his best but it's still not very good since he's not producing. It would be risky to give him a 3 year deal if he doesn't continue to progress beyond what he's shown over the last month or so. Plus his agent may not want to sign a 3 year deal if he thinks he's going to improve a good bit by then.

I'm not worried about Beaulieu breaking out, if he does and it costs us more then so be it as I don't think he ever be as good as many on here think he will be. Wouldn't overpay him until he shows a good bit more and for a lot longer.

I think it would be fair to make the following RFA budgets:
Galchenyuk ($4M)
Bournival ($0.75M)
Beaulieu ($1.25M)
Tinordi ($1M)

Interested in why you give Tinordi a raise, I would hope Beaulieu gets less then 1.25M, would like to see an average depth forward like Bournival signed for less then 750K.

 

[Blind Gardien]

Interested in why you give Tinordi a raise, I would hope Beaulieu gets less then 1.25M, would like to see an average depth forward like Bournival signed for less then 750K.

Well, I didn't actually calculate QOs. Alas, CapGeek. But these guys (the D anyway) aren't going on waivers. We know that and they know that. So if their QOs are raises on ELC max deals... it's gotta be in that range anyway. It's not like some lesser prospects where you can bargain a 1-way deal as a tradeoff for a lower salary.

Bournival is more interchangeable in the sense that maybe you could do the tradeoff thing, but to me, whether it was $575k, or $750k, it doesn't make much difference overall.

 

[montreal]

Well, I didn't actually calculate QOs. Alas, CapGeek. But these guys (the D anyway) aren't going on waivers. We know that and they know that. So if their QOs are raises on ELC max deals... it's gotta be in that range anyway. It's not like some lesser prospects where you can bargain a 1-way deal as a tradeoff for a lower salary.

Bournival is more interchangeable in the sense that maybe you could do the tradeoff thing, but to me, whether it was $575k, or $750k, it doesn't make much difference overall.

I think you easily could get Tinordi to take less on a one way, but I guess we'll see how it goes.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I think you easily could get Tinordi to take less on a one way, but I guess we'll see how it goes.

I think that only works if you have any leverage whatsoever which lets you offer him a 2-way deal instead. Habs have had that in the past with a few Ryan White-ish types of players. Possibly they could with Bournival. They don't have that leverage with Tinordi. He won't be waived to the minors. He would never clear. He should fire his agent if he isn't getting his full QO 1-way. I'll be his agent.