Salary cap... ticket price cap??

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by leafaholix*, Dec 15, 2004.

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  1. leafaholix*

    leafaholix* Guest

    If the NHL wants to have a salary cap, should it be expected that they will put a cap on the price of tickets?
     
  2. FLYLine27*

    FLYLine27* BUCH

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    This is pointless. They wont and prices will not go down. If it was the owners or the media who said it...then they lied to gain PR to the owners.
     
  3. Kodiak

    Kodiak Registered User

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    I'm not sure about the question. Are you asking should the owners do it or is it likely that the owners will do it?
     
  4. leafaholix*

    leafaholix* Guest

    I'm asking, if the NHL is going to force a cap on the $ a team is allowed to spend on talent, should the NHL do something about the price of tickets and lower them since in a lot of the better markets they're way too high?

    Example...

    If Toronto is spending $40,000,00 instead of $60,000,000. Should the owners have a responsibility to lower ticket prices?
     
  5. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    They SHOULD, but they won't.
     
  6. Brooklyn Ranger

    Brooklyn Ranger Registered User

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    Dream On! We all know that under a capitalist economic system, prices are set by the market. The underlying cost of doing business is only part of the equation.
     
  7. NYVanfan

    NYVanfan Registered User

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    Lol...that's what the players are saying...

    but it's not just the market, it's who holds the power -- that's why the owners will get their way. Ultimately, it's their business, and they've sunk their investment dough into it -- they can pay the players what they like and they can dictate what they like in terms of ticket prices.

    That's why it's a bit sickening to hear them moan about this monster of their own creating...and now they need this hard cap because they can't manage their own businesses.

    Mind you in this current situation I tend to agree with them over the players. The owners are at fault for creating this mess, but the players are trying to perpetuate it.

    The idea of a ticket price cap, although nice in theory, is absurd -- there are too many other cost variables in the business for them to do this, even if they were remotely inclined to. The NFL doesn't do that...
     
  8. Buffaloed

    Buffaloed webmaster

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    Why would the NHL or the NHLPA support a ticket cap? Even under the NHL proposal the cap will grow as revenues grow. The surest way for revenues to increase is by raising ticket prices.

    If fans want a ticket cap, they have to become a party to negotiations. It takes leverage to be recognized. Polls and complaining won't do it. The only thing the NHL looks at is whether the tickets are being sold. Hockey fans need to form their own kind of "union", particularly season ticket holders. Season ticket holders would have a lot of clout if they organized. Teams depend on those season ticket renewals to predict revenues.

    If the season ticket holders in ONE city organized and refused to renew if they couldn't buy tickets at their price, the team would have to concede. Season ticket holders in other cities would soon follow, and eventually it would trickle down to all tickets. I'm aware of the NHL Fans Association ( NHLFA.com ). All they do is whine and take polls. Its all words and no "action". What needs to be done is to organize the season ticket holders in one city at the grassroots level and make demands on management.
     
  9. Benji Frank

    Benji Frank Registered User

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    How will the proposed salary cap ever go up if they decide to cap revenues??

    Not gonna do it ... wouldn't be prudent!!! :D

    Right now, they're just trying to formalize a budget that will fix their costs vs. revenues. We, as fans, can impose a cap of sorts on revenues by not buying tickets, but in certain markets, that'll just never happen........ there'll always be another fan willing to pay the price just like right now, there's always another owner willing to pay the players price.
     
  10. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    IMO, this is the next big thing in professional sports - with player salaries being the last big thing...

    Not just hockey season ticket holders, but season ticket holders of ALL North American professional sports united in a single association with a common voice...
     
  11. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    This will never happen because a large number of the season ticket holders are corporations who use the tickets to entertain clients, and really couldn't care less. Can you imagine the hypocricy of Nortel and BCE showing up at a Leafs game complaining about the "greedy millionaire players"?
     
  12. Benji Frank

    Benji Frank Registered User

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    I did a google search, 'cuz I could have sworn there was a season ticket holder in Ottawa that wanted to make some noise when I did my post & after reading your post....

    http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2004/12/15/783715-sun.html

    Visit www.seasonticketholders.org for more information
     
  13. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    Well, IMO, season ticket holders are clearly stakeholders in professional sports... The owners have a lot of $, the players have a lot of $, and if the season ticket holders have a lot of $, IMO, this doesn't make their 'position' any less important... IMO, how much money someone (or a company) makes shouldn't play into what is 'fair' or 'right'... Should season ticket holders have a formal say/vote into what season ticket prices should be? Good question I think... and one worthy of a debate at some point, IMO... As individual consumers, we already 'vote' based on how we decide to spend our $... But I don't think that it would be unreasonable for season ticket holders to also have a 'group' voice... After all, some hockey fans are 'addicts' and constantly need their 'hockey fix' ;) Are they in a reasonable state of mind to make rationale decisions? If gamblers can be recognized as having an addiction, why can't sports fanatics?

    Yes, I'm going overboard above, but professional sports business is all about $... a lot of money with constant cash flow being generated by season ticket holders... it's been said that professional sports CBA negotiations are, 'a fight between millionaires and billionaires'... Imagine the hypocrisy if the Leafs (and the Leaf players) claimed that their season ticket holders (regardless who they are, and how much they earn) are "greedy millionaires"...

    I know that it would **** me off as a regular game goer...
     
  14. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    Season ticket holders are not "stakeholders" and there is no way they should have a vote on the prices they pay. They are customers who choose each year whether or not to pay for their season ticket's worth of entertainment.

    Are all the companies who own licenses for Windows and Office XP "stakeholders" in Microsoft? And do they get a vote on what their license renewal fees are? No and no.
     
  15. discostu

    discostu Registered User

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    Season ticket holders, by definition, are stakeholders, in that they hold a stake in the outcome.

    They are not shareholders, which is a completely different term.

    As for whether customers should have a say in how a business operates, if they represent a large enough chunk of the business, ask any company whose primary customer is Wal-Mart. They'll tell you the influence a customer can have without owning one share in the company.

    As for the scheme. I don't think it will work. If fans got together to rally against the NHL and NHLPA, the only message that will get sent is that fans are still passionate about the game, and that they will come back eventually. Indifference is the most powerful message that could be sent.
     
  16. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    A "stakeholder" is someone who is affected by a decision - someone who 'holds a stake' (i.e. interest) in the decision...

    Yes, all companies who own licenses for Windows and Office XP are stakeholders in Microsoft... Consumers are definitely company stakeholders... As stakeholders, consumers are able to vote with how they decide to spend their money... I definitely don't think that season ticket holders should have a direct vote (i.e. be involved in the CBA negotiations) but I also don't think it's unreasonable for season ticket holders as a group to make a 'group' decision (i.e. those in the association, as a group, show their displeasure be refusing to buy tickets)...

    Strength in numbers... Many season ticket holders (sports fans) feel neglected and, IMO, would welcome being in a body that has a bit more influence in professional sports decisions... although indirectly...

    Hell, it worked to get the troops out of 'Nam...
     
  17. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    Great point... worked with my ex-girlfriend, drove her nuts ;)
     
  18. Terrier

    Terrier Registered User

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    Are you crazy? Once they've fought tooth and nail to get a salary cap(excuse me, cost certainty) in place, the owners will take a while trying to make up for recent losses, debts and other obligations. Heck, if a ticket price cap ever existed, it would be tantamount to admitting they're financially sound(imagine the fines if an owner ever squawked about that). The NBA does have a rule that each of its teams has to have a certain number of $10 seats, but of course, the worst seats in basketball aren't necessarily the worst seats in hockey.
     
  19. IcemanTBI

    IcemanTBI Registered User

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    The only way I see ticket prices coming down from where they are is if the NHL is able to secure a major television contract, that would pump millions into the NHL. The reason tickets are so hig IMHO is because the NHL is a "gate driven" league. Almost all the revenue comes from the tickets, there is no major TV deal.

    Having said that, I don't forsee the NHL getting that major TV contract any time soon.
     
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