Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - XXX

[Empoleon8771]

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Previous threads:
Salary Cap & Roster Building - Y'all got any more of them Kessel rumors
Salary Cap & Roster building - All of your Pittsburgh born players belong to us
Salary Cap & Roster building - I need a White Russian
Salary Cap: - Salary Cap + Roster Building: Malkin Avengers - EndGame
Salary Cap: - Salary cap+roster building: To Malkin or not to Malkin?

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[Riptide]

What are some comparables for Pettersson's next contract?

Here's some. I omitted any that signed past 3 seasons (most either signed 2 or 4+ anyway).

Nurse after a 6g/27pt season (17/18) received a 2 x 3.2m deal.
Hutton after a 5g/19pt season (1g/25pt the year before) received 2 x 2.8m.
Orlov after a 8g/29pt season (15/16) received a 1 x 2.57m deal.
Ceci after a 10g/26pt season (15/16) received a 2 x 2.8m deal (that was also his 3rd season and 2nd season with 20+ pts)

There's 4. And two of them (perhaps even all of them) play a more physical game then MP does. But add in some inflation as most of those are from a few years ago, and I think MPs next deal (assuming it's a 2/3 yr bridge) will be in that 2.7-3m range.

There is enough data now to suggest that 2 defenseman on the PP is generally a bad idea.

There's so many variables there that I wouldn't get too hung up on the existing data.

No, but there’s examples of better defensemen playing on the PP and getting worse results than 4 forwards.

It all really depends on the make up of the individual players and more specifically who is replacing the 2nd D. There's going to be a noticeable difference if it's Kessel that's replacing someone vs Bjugstad.

Is Stralman any good still? Hes a bit older but could look good in our top-4.

He's a RD. And while he might be affordable, he's going to want term. For a 33 yr old, do you really want to be giving him 4/5+ years, even if he only takes 4m?

That's how it SHOULD play out, assuming the ???? is a legit #3, so you can ride the hell out of your top two pairings (and have two reliable puck moving pairings to boot) and more properly insulate Pets-Guds.

Of course it won't . . .

Why? We didn't have to do that last season... why would that have to change? I can see the fear there if Gudbranson reverts back to his Vancouver days play wise, but from what we have seen, insulating/sheltering them is not a huge issue.

We can keep both and Phil only has 3 years left. I have no idea why you think Phil will be an albatross. There is nothing in his production to suggest it's going to dive off a cliff.

The whole reason I see to trade Kessel is because the coach and him don't get along and the GM picks the coach.

Offensively? Probably not. But given the direction his defensive game has been headed, we're quickly approaching the point where he's not worth being on the roster.

 

[Riptide]

Replace Riikola with Maatta and it’s way better.

Dumoulin - Letang
Pettersson - Schultz
Maatta - Ruhwedel

Except that that lineup wouldn't have the grit or physicality that Rutherford wants. And honestly, Gudbranson was good enough that we don't need to move him.

 

[iFishyHD]

Dumoulin - Letang
Pettersson - Schultz
Maatta - Ruhwedel

Except that that lineup wouldn't have the grit or physicality that Rutherford wants. And honestly, Gudbranson was good enough that we don't need to move him.

Is it really fair to say that's what JR wants? Seems like its been awhile since we really heard anything about it.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Is it really fair to say that's what JR wants? Seems like its been awhile since we really heard anything about it.

I think that is because he's more or less happy about where it is at this point. If you start subtracting guys like Guds, JR is going to be on the hunt again.

 

[JTG]

Speaking of Gudbranson - I'm incredibly split on him. Part of me loves what he did to the defensive corps and the lineup in general. He's still young, he has pedigree. The salary is my hang up.

 

[Gurglesons]

Speaking of Gudbranson - I'm incredibly split on him. Part of me loves what he did to the defensive corps and the lineup in general. He's still young, he has pedigree. The salary is my hang up.

Yeah, if he costed 2.5-3 with his contract up next year I’d love him.

Hopefully him and Pettersson rules.

 

[KIRK]

As far as Phil is concerned, it's no longer about what JR wants. It's about whatever scraps (or hopefully better) he can get.

 

[Gurglesons]

As far as Phil is concerned, it's no longer about what JR wants. It's about whatever scraps (or hopefully better) he can get.

I think those expecting real assets for Phil will be disappointed.

I think those expecting nothing for Phil will too.

Won’t be franchise changing pieces, but potentially cap and picks that build this team back to a point where we are tops of the division.

 

[JTG]

Yeah, if he costed 2.5-3 with his contract up next year I’d love him.

Hopefully him and Pettersson rules.

I will be shocked if Petterson isn't 2LD next season.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I wonder if coaching is a market inefficiency in the NHL. Like coaching can make or break a team, yet NHL teams dispose of them at an almost unsustainable rate. It might be worth while keeping the good ones for a longer time and retooling the players whenever you have to. Just thinking out loud anyway.

I think it's definitely worth considering that outlook. It's a huge risk to make the change just on staleness or player commitment. You risk throwing away years. I see definite appeal to teams retooling if possible.

It would be nice if there were coach trades. It would be much easier for teams to make a lateral move of good, established coaches to get that freshness and enthusiasm back without risking the uncertainty of the "next man up."

 

[KIRK]

I think those expecting real assets for Phil will be disappointed.

I think those expecting nothing for Phil will too.

Won’t be franchise changing pieces, but potentially cap and picks that build this team back to a point where we are tops of the division.

The Pens will get 'something', but those people expecting AZ 1st (14OV) to be in play for Phil . . . AZ just has no incentive to do that. When you hold almost all the cards and walking isn't an option for the other player, you leverage that.

Futures deal with AZ . . . I could see a flip of 1sts and maybe AZ adding their 2nd.

 

[KIRK]

I will be shocked if Petterson isn't 2LD next season.

I'm not sure that he should be, but I certainly think it's more likely than not that he will be (unless Johnson AND Maatta both are moved).

 

[Gurglesons]

I will be shocked if Petterson isn't 2LD next season.

It would suck. I see nothing in his game that doesn’t lead me to believe he’ll be there. And Riikola should be 3 LD with Schultz.

Gudbranson’s puck moving is severely underrated.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Pens will get 'something', but those people expecting AZ 1st (14OV) to be in play for Phil . . . AZ just has no incentive to do that. When you hold almost all the cards and walking isn't an option for the other player, you leverage that.

Futures deal with AZ . . . I could see a flip of 1sts and maybe AZ adding their 2nd.

Just rumblings. But it sounds like Arizona doesn’t have much interest.

I’d hope for Hinostroza or Fischer and a swap of salaries with JJ. Demers + Fischer for Kessel + JJ would be rad.

 

[BillPrep]

Just rumblings. But it sounds like Arizona doesn’t have much interest.

I’d hope for Hinostroza or Fischer and a swap of salaries with JJ. Demers + Fischer for Kessel + JJ would be rad.

Id drive the hour (no traffic) out to glendale and kiss chayka full on the lips for that deal...

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Speaking of Gudbranson - I'm incredibly split on him. Part of me loves what he did to the defensive corps and the lineup in general. He's still young, he has pedigree. The salary is my hang up.

Gudbranson at about $2 million less would be more palatable for that bottom pairing. He'd also fill JR's new "push back" quotient without hurting you too much.

The $4 million price tag kind of hangs over him, especially when we've also got other "bottom pairing D" who make too much on the roster still.

 

[Riptide]

Is it really fair to say that's what JR wants? Seems like its been awhile since we really heard anything about it.

You really think he's done a 180 and changed his mind over the past 2 months? Especially given that Gudbranson played very well for us? And given that for the 2nd straight season 3/4 of the teams that made it to the final 4 are much more of the "gritty" type then the "skilled" type? Personally as long as Gudbranson is playing well for us, I don't see him going anywhere.

 

[SEALBound]

TIOPS says we are still pursuing Zucker.

Hope that something works out there. Zucker s a good target for us.

 

[Riptide]

Speaking of Gudbranson - I'm incredibly split on him. Part of me loves what he did to the defensive corps and the lineup in general. He's still young, he has pedigree. The salary is my hang up.

I get the salary complaint... but honestly it doesn't really bother me - not to mention that I think much of the griping is out of place. RD, young, played very well for us and has a big physical presence... all in a package that can play 19 minutes a night without having to be sheltered. That can be hard to acquire, and as such usually isn't cheap.

What also gets to me is that we're talking about a blueliner who played very very well for us. Yeah he sucked in Vancouver and I was appalled when we acquired him. Then he played a game for us and did great. And then another, and another... and so on. His metrics (both eye test and stats) are extremely good. To the point that the idea that he's "overpaid" is laughable. Was he overpaid for what he provided Vancouver? Probably - but then they still agreed to give him the contract. Is he overpaid for what he provided us? No.

Gudbranson at about $2 million less would be more palatable for that bottom pairing. He'd also fill JR's new "push back" quotient without hurting you too much.

If he cost 2m less, odds are he never would have been available. And if he was, it would have costed a lot more than Pearson. Sometimes people are just completely out of touch with "market value". I mean you're talking about a league where Manning got a 2x2.25m contract (and he's far from alone as someone who sucks and is paid in that realm) and then was actually sought after by another GM and traded for. And yet somehow you think Gudbranson should earn less than him. This isn't 2006 anymore where top pairing D are earning 5m. Now that barely covers decent top 4 guys.

 

[Riptide]

It would suck. I see nothing in his game that doesn’t lead me to believe he’ll be there. And Riikola should be 3 LD with Schultz.

Gudbranson’s puck moving is severely underrated.

The big question is what version do we get. The one from last season that played more like a #3D then the #6 that everyone told us we were getting? Or the one from Vancouver that might not have even been good enough to be our #6 if we were healthy? Because if we get the same guy we saw from the TD onwards, then yes I agree his puck moving is a lot better than what we were expecting. But until Oct, that will remain a big IF.

I will be shocked if Petterson isn't 2LD next season.

I think it depends on who's moved. If it's JJ that's moved, it wouldn't surprise me if Maatta has that spot. If JJ is still here, he will get it just so JJ/Gud are not paired together - although in an extremely limited sample size (8 minutes) they were good enough that it wasn't an issue. If both Maatta and JJ are moved, then I'm not sure. I could see MP getting that spot with Schultz on P2, but I could also see him staying with Gudbranson due to how well they played last season and someone else getting a shot at that spot with Schultz.

 

[WayneSid9987]

You really think he's done a 180 and changed his mind over the past 2 months? Especially given that Gudbranson played very well for us? And given that for the 2nd straight season 3/4 of the teams that made it to the final 4 are much more of the "gritty" type then the "skilled" type? Personally as long as Gudbranson is playing well for us, I don't see him going anywhere.

Hard to say what JR's philosophy atm is after his "deep dive".
If he was still full "push back" i don't see him trading JJ so fast, so theres that...
We'll just have to see with the moves that are actually made vs those that almost happened.

I think it depends on who's moved. If it's JJ that's moved, it wouldn't surprise me if Maatta has that spot. If JJ is still here, he will get it just so JJ/Gud are not paired together - although in an extremely limited sample size (8 minutes) they were good enough that it wasn't an issue. If both Maatta and JJ are moved, then I'm not sure. I could see MP getting that spot with Schultz on P2, but I could also see him staying with Gudbranson due to how well they played last season and someone else getting a shot at that spot with Schultz.

Tough to say what they think of JJ specifically right now. Even if he remains, i can see the brass burying him to start the year. They locked in Riiko and Ruh cuz they don't like one of JJ or Olli. Thats for sure.

 

[Burn]

I think those expecting real assets for Phil will be disappointed.

I think those expecting nothing for Phil will too.

Won’t be franchise changing pieces, but potentially cap and picks that build this team back to a point where we are tops of the division.

I would be happy with Grabner AZs 2nd and both 3rds for Kessel and JJ. They take the full cap hit.

Then try Rust and a 3rd for a Carolina 2nd.

Hornqvist for Virtanen and a 2nd.


Guentzel Crosby McCann
Nyqvist Malkin Zuccerello
Virtanen Bjugstad Grabner
Johnson Blueger Simon

To start the season Im okay with that. They get up and down the ice better. Better 5 on 5.

Virtanen can move to LW and Bjugstadt can play RW if that 3rd line isn't performing. Then bring in another center.

 

[HandshakeLine]

TIOPS says we are still pursuing Zucker.

Hope that something works out there. Zucker s a good target for us.

Well, shit. That means we're not in the running for Zucker.

 

[Lust for Life]

If the deal essentially was Zucker for Kessel, I struggle to see what we could offer them instead. But then again, Fenton doesn't seem to be the smartest of GM's.