Salary Cap: Salary Cap+Roster Building: 'twas a great run....

Status
Not open for further replies.

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,288
25,206
I don't disagree, but that's entirely on the team around Letang as opposed to Letang himself.

If your team only puts in their max effort when he's out of the lineup, or if they stop trying when he comes back because "Letang and Dumo will take care of it", well, then you need to do some serious rebuilding of your roster, because that's not a lineup you win with.

Could be right tbf.
 

CheckingLineCenter

Registered User
Aug 10, 2018
8,216
8,702
JR would never do it, but (if it was possible) would people hate a redux of Sheary+Hunwick for a 4th in the form of Rust+JJ for like a 6th?
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,528
21,072
Schultz is kind of an issue the last two years as well.

If we are going to criticize Letang for his post injury play, gotta do it to Schultz who has been downright not worth his contract and another issue is we basically have to give those soft minutes to Gudbranson now.

A fourth line of AJ - Teddy - ZAR seems fine for me.

Letang's not only been injured/dubious in the playoffs a lot more often than Schultz, he's also had the luxury of primarily playing with Dumo while Schultz drew one of the shortest straws any NHL blueliner could, having to play with either JJ or Maatta. That's like going first in Russian Roulette with a bullet in every chamber.

Give Schultz an upgrade - say, Pettersson - and see how he fares...he did very well the last time he played with a smart, mobile defenseman in Cole. We already know how Letang performs with one of the most reliable defensive defensemen in the league.

Short of us landing Karlsson, I don't think we can realistically get another franchise d-man to run the ship. Even with Karlsson, you lose a significant defensive presence in swapping the two. I think Karlsson's on another plane of existence when it comes to transition and offensive output, but again, Letang's true value to us is in his ability to bring a strong defensive presence.

Even if you bring in a Dougie Hamilton or a Jacob Trouba somehow, I don't think those guys are ready quite yet to step into Letang's role immediately. They probably will be sooner than later, especially with Gonchar and Martin working with them, but I'd way rather us somehow land them and give them 2nd pairing responsibility while they grow and develop into that franchise blueliner while being molded by our coaching staff. Give them the Aaron Rodgers treatment where he simmers while Favre plays out the last of his days with the team.

If we can get a guy of that sort of caliber, I'm way less attached to Letang. But that's not a realistic possibility, I don't think. Either you commit to fixing the blueline and getting back to 2015-16 style hockey, which means keeping Letang, or you sell everyone not named Sid, Geno, Jake, McCann and Murray off, and commit to a 3 or so year rebuild. Well, there's a third option I guess, and it's the one I think JR's going to go with, where he stays the course and ensures the slow, agonizing death of this team until we're the Kings--which happens way sooner than most people seem to think.

While a franchise d to replace Letang would be nice, I don't think it's necessary at all. Something like the calibre of the defensemen you mentioned in the middle paragraph - or the guys I mentioned - would be more than adequate. There's no shortage of them as potential targets this year, it's mostly a matter of whether we're committed to pursuing them.

Aside from that the other fixes don't seem all that difficult, if JR realizes who needs to be moved and why. We don't need scorched earth here. Just minimize the unforced errors instead of leaning into them.

You need to dump Maatta and JJ PLUS find an upgrade at 2nd pair LD or move Maatta and Schultz and pray the upgrade at RD can excel with JJ as a partner. Not impossible, but pretty tough to do.

Moving Maatta, JJ, and Letang and expecting defense to be better is really wishful thinking.

Moving Maatta and JJ alone and the defense getting better seems inevitable to me. We have a better LD than Maatta or JJ in-house, Sully was unfortunately married to playing him on the 3rd pairing.

Schultz is not a problem to me - but we need to give him a reliable partner.

Moving Letang requires us adding another good top pairing RHD. If we do that, I'll take that over the status quo. That said, Johnson and Maatta are much more pressing concerns because they were both pretty brutal on balance this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: canadianguy77

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,439
73,627
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
I don't think that's a fair assessment.

There were 54 dmen getting with a cap hit within 1m of 5.5m last season. Only 4 of them hit 50 points or above. Schultz's pace of 41 points would have had him in 12th on that list, equal with Rasmus Ristolainen. I appreciate that he's heavily reliant on his points to justify his cap hit, but when you're in the top quartile for your rough paygrade in production, then I think you're providing value.
And where is he at if he’s pacing at 34 like last season?
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,256
22,805
I'm not super happy with Rust, but he's a guy we need to keep around. He was more concerned with (or maybe coached to be more concerned with) being a point producer this season than the more all-around, responsible, speedy guy he was in the recent past. He's got to get back to basics, the offense will come eventually, but he's out there thinking he's Laine or something.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shady Machine

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,439
73,627
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Letang's not only been injured/dubious in the playoffs a lot more often than Schultz, he's also had the luxury of primarily playing with Dumo while Schultz drew one of the shortest straws any NHL blueliner could, having to play with either JJ or Maatta. That's like going first in Russian Roulette with a bullet in every chamber.

Give Schultz an upgrade - say, Pettersson - and see how he fares...he did very well the last time he played with a smart, mobile defenseman in Cole. We already know how Letang performs with one of the most reliable defensive defensemen in the league.



While a franchise d to replace Letang would be nice, I don't think it's necessary at all. Something like the calibre of the defensemen you mentioned in the middle paragraph - or the guys I mentioned - would be more than adequate. There's no shortage of them as potential targets this year, it's mostly a matter of whether we're committed to pursuing them.

Aside from that the other fixes don't seem all that difficult, if JR realizes who needs to be moved and why. We don't need scorched earth here. Just minimize the unforced errors instead of leaning into them.



Moving Maatta and JJ alone and the defense getting better seems inevitable to me. We have a better LD than Maatta or JJ in-house, Sully was unfortunately married to playing him on the 3rd pairing.

Schultz is not a problem to me - but we need to give him a reliable partner.

Moving Letang requires us adding another good top pairing RHD. If we do that, I'll take that over the status quo.

This narrative of Letang playing soft minutes or having the luxury of Dumoulin needs to stop.

Letang is playing all situations and typically 25 minutes a night. When another defenseman on this team can even approach that time and usage, we can start comparing them. Otherwise every other player is getting favorable starts comparison wise.

Schultz started in the offensive zone 70% of the time this playoffs with Johnson and literally 100% with Maatta.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Doogle

Trade

Guentzel is ELITE
Apr 13, 2015
7,077
6,294
JR would never do it, but (if it was possible) would people hate a redux of Sheary+Hunwick for a 4th in the form of Rust+JJ for like a 6th?
I hate that trade and the fact people are so hell bent on adding to JJ just to get rid of him. He's the perfect buyout candidate. He makes 3.2, not 5 million+.
 

Dipsy Doodle

Rent A Barn
May 28, 2006
76,528
21,072
This narrative of Letang playing soft minutes or having the luxury of Dumoulin needs to stop.

Letang is playing all situations and typically 25 minutes a night. When another defenseman on this team can even approach that time and usage, we can start comparing them. Otherwise every other player is getting favorable starts comparison wise.

Schultz started in the offensive zone 70% of the time this playoffs with Johnson and literally 100% with Maatta.

Are we now going to pretend that starting in the o-zone with Dumo for 0% of the time wouldn't be better than starting in the o-zone 100% of the time with Maatta and Johnson?

This isn't meant to bash Letang, simply show what Schultz had to work with. He was given an anchor around his neck pretty much every time he jumped over the boards. Let's not do that before casting definitive judgment on him - particularly since we have that player in-house.
 
  • Like
Reactions: canadianguy77

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,439
73,627
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Are we now going to pretend that starting in the o-zone with Dumo for 0% of the time wouldn't be better than starting in the o-zone 100% of the time with Maatta and Johnson?

This isn't meant to bash Letang, simply show what Schultz had to work with. He was given an anchor around his neck pretty much every time he jumped over the boards. Let's not do that before casting definitive judgment on him - particularly since we have that player in-house.

While I agree that Schultz was getting pulled down by JJ. I think the simple fact is for 5.5 we need a player that can carry the second pairing.

And some of the issues were due to Schultz’s own play.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,288
25,206
So yeah. He’s in that realm.

I dunno. It’s hard for me to see statically the Schultz contract is bad. It just is one of those in a long line in contracts that don’t fit.

I can see the argument, but the team has had a dramatic difference in points accrued over the last two years depending on his fitness, and he's still a good example of a rare player that is useful to us.

I suppose I'd say I'm agnostic. I am certain though that if Schultz goes he needs to be replaced by an equally good player though and separating teams from players of that quality at Schultz's cap hit isn't easy.

I think the sanest thing to do here might be to keep him into next season and trade him if he's not making the sort of difference we want for the pay cheque.
 

Big Friggin Dummy

Registered User
Feb 22, 2019
24,256
22,805
While a franchise d to replace Letang would be nice, I don't think it's necessary at all. Something like the calibre of the defensemen you mentioned in the middle paragraph - or the guys I mentioned - would be more than adequate. There's no shortage of them as potential targets this year, it's mostly a matter of whether we're committed to pursuing them.

Aside from that the other fixes don't seem all that difficult, if JR realizes who needs to be moved and why. We don't need scorched earth here. Just minimize the unforced errors instead of leaning into them.
It's preeeeeetty difficult to move three deadweight blueliners that look like they don't really have a place in today's NHL when they make $3 million to $4 million each. On top of that, you have to actually replace them with better options. On top of that, you need to replace both of Kessel and Horny over the next year or so, and replace them with better options as well. That's a ton of moving parts and salary cap work to be done.

Again, that's all got to be accomplished by the guy who just said this is the best blueline he's ever had here, and the guy who values pushback over being able to skate well or play well.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,439
73,627
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
I can see the argument, but the team has had a dramatic difference in points accrued over the last two years depending on his fitness, and he's still a good example of a rare player that is useful to us.

I suppose I'd say I'm agnostic. I am certain though that if Schultz goes he needs to be replaced by an equally good player though and separating teams from players of that quality at Schultz's cap hit isn't easy.

I think the sanest thing to do here might be to keep him into next season and trade him if he's not making the sort of difference we want for the pay cheque.

Yeah, that would be my route. That being said if we can do a Brodie for Schultz swap, I’d be inclined.

And I think Calgary would likely be entertaining that to get out of paying Brodie’s next contract.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,288
25,206
Yeah, that would be my route. That being said if we can do a Brodie for Schultz swap, I’d be inclined.

And I think Calgary would likely be entertaining that to get out of paying Brodie’s next contract.

Done.

Incidentally, are Calgary still short of RH wings, or did the Lindholm move solve things for them?
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,439
73,627
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Done.

Incidentally, are Calgary still short of RH wings, or did the Lindholm move solve things for them?

Not a huge fan of Peters so I don’t watch a ton of them, but from watching local broadcasts I think they are comfortable with their forwards, but they have a ton of young D ready to play and they need a sacrifice for the 1st round exit so Brodie is the likely lamb.

They have Anderson and Valimaki ready for NHL full time work.
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,088
18,193
Jack Johnson + 1st for cap space

Im sorry but this is stupid. I hate JJ as much as the next guy but this suggestion that we need to add a first to move him is absolute lunacy. Not just from you either. Ive seen several other suggest this mornic proposal. This isnt Hossa or Datsyuk. Hes a serviceable dman. 3-4 on his very best days, 5-6-7 on average. Sure we may not get tremendous value back but we certainly dont need to add a 1st to move him. Thats f***ing stupid and Im growing tired of seeing from representatives of this board. Get a clue. All of you.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,439
73,627
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Im sorry but this is stupid. I hate JJ as much as the next guy but this suggestion that we need to add a first to move him is absolute lunacy. Not just from you either. Ive seen several other suggest this mornic proposal. This isnt Hossa or Datsyuk. Hes a serviceable dman. 3-4 on his very best days, 5-6-7 on average. Sure we may not get tremendous value back but we certainly dont need to add a 1st to move him. Thats ****ing stupid and Im growing tired of seeing from representatives of this board. Get a clue. All of you.

He is literally one of the five worst D men in the league.
 

ownal

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
3,041
1,565
Pittsburgh
Cody Eakin will not be able to show his face in Vegas after what happened last night. Can we pick him up to be our 3C? What would we need to trade?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->