Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: The Calm Before the Storm?

[molon labe]

Why is JR such a schmuck? Why would he offer a full NTC to a middle six forward?

Ayyeeee! Camaaaannn...

JR wasn't the only man who'd have been interested in Hornqvist...he was still coming off a few GREAT playoffs. You can gettare la spugna or you can play ball, aye. When he's on, he's worth 5M+ - he just wasn't on last year through a combination of lack of top-6 time and the whole team just flatlining for stretches. The whole NTC thing is just overused but that's the market for ya.

 

[Coastal Kev]

then what would you be thrilled with? He's quite literally the best player you can hope to get in return for Kessel

I don't buy this at all. How would you know that, reporting? Trades happen at a spur of the moment most times, so we really don't know what the return might yet be. What I don't do is trade a special player for an "eh". Granted I don't watch Minnesota so I'm basing my perception of Zucker off of the one Wild game I saw him last year. I don't see him being a natural fit with Geno, so where does he play?

The goal this offseason should be to get a wing or two that fits with Geno. I think everyone believes Kahun should work with Sid, now it's time to address the 2nd line.

Again, see my post from earlier on what the Pens should look for. But in my opinion, 2 of Rust, Horny and Phil should go this offseason if not all 3. My preference would be to keep Phil on the 3rd line, but that doesn't seem likely at this point. Trade Phil for either a wing for Geno or great assets which could be flipped for such and definitely try to move Horny for BAP.

It's really not that complicated.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Arizona fans seem to be clamoring for Kessel. If only Chayka felt that way..

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Eh, I don't think it's all that complicated. Kessel for Zucker is a fairly simple trade that makes the Penguins younger and faster. Moving Rust for futures seems like a pretty easy move, and that leaves you with a little under $5 million in cap space added. I feel like the alternative (Kessel for cap space and futures, getting younger via trade elsewhere) is probably more complicated.

And worse. Don't forget worse. Much, much worse.

Well I'd like both of them. Would be an awesome middle pairing.

I put aside the playoffs cuz the Leafs don't have a large sample size there and I don't really believe in playoff carry-over from year to year, especially when the player changes teams.

Maybe if we attached Rust to Gudbranson someone would bite and clear that 4M x 2? Then ditch JJ with pick sacrifices + a throw-in like Jarry or something.

Sounds like an enormous cost, but god help us if Gudbranson regresses into his Vancouver form and JJ is still here in October. Would it not be worth it?

Our D would be stacked with Gardiner. Total price tag for the D-corps would be similar to what it is now. Bottom pairing Petterson+Riikola. Ruhwedel or Prow 7th man.

A man can dream

To quote Van Halen, "dream another dream".

 

[Empoleon8771]

And worse. Don't forget worse. Much, much worse.

If you only look at points, yes. If you actually look at what each of them provides, meh. Zucker as a 30-30 player helps the Penguins more than Kessel as a PPG player, the question is whether Zucker gets back to his 30-30 form.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

He. Wasn't. Sheltered.

I have no idea how this idea came to be, but unless someone's got some evidence that I missed, this is the most single out of sync with reality take on last season on the forum. It needs to die.

Was talking about next year, not last. With a healthy D-corps in October (assuming it's the same as what we have now), I think it's highly likely that he'd get limited exposure to the opposition's top 6. Although admittedly he's a capable PK'er. Can help us there.

 

[Andy99]

I have to say, my impression was that Rutherford saying "We want to create some cap for free agency" sounds most like a cover for trading Kessel for futures and saying "We liked this idea all along". Which means no Zucker from Minnesota.

True...it would create very little cap space if Phil-Zucker trade happened...but I’d almost rather the old man have no money to play with in a FA...heaven help us

 

[Beauner]

I don't buy this at all. How would you know that, reporting? Trades happen at a spur of the moment most times, so we really don't know what the return might yet be. What I don't do is trade a special player for an "eh". Granted I don't watch Minnesota so I'm basing my perception of Zucker off of the one Wild game I saw him last year. I don't see him being a natural fit with Geno, so where does he play?

The goal this offseason should be to get a wing or two that fits with Geno. I think everyone believes Kahun should work with Sid, now it's time to address the 2nd line.

Again, see my post from earlier on what the Pens should look for. But in my opinion, 2 of Rust, Horny and Phil should go this offseason if not all 3. My preference would be to keep Phil on the 3rd line, but that doesn't seem likely at this point. Trade Phil for either a wing for Geno or great assets which could be flipped for such and definitely try to move Horny for BAP.

It's really not that complicated.

PK Subban just got traded for the loose change Shero found in his couch. There is practically no market for Kessel, and this is confirmed via multiple reporters and the fact that Kessel is still a Penguin.

If you want to trade him for futures and use those to target someone else, fine. I don't think those futures will be more valuable than Zucker, but it's still a conversation worth having. But Zucker would be a much better fit with Malkin than Kessel

 

[Tom Hanks]

Not according to this. Seems pretty definitive.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/phil-kessel-veto-trade-penguins-1.5178735

Granted this article's like 11 days old though and something may have changed without me seeing it.

This was Bob MacKenzie’s quote in June.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if, at some point, [a trade] gets done with Minnesota,” McKenzie said. “Kessel’s ‘no’ to Pittsburgh wasn’t really a hard, 100 percent no so much as it was, ‘naw, I don’t really want to go there, maybe you could check with some other teams.”

Totally agree he played well. Blew my expectations out of the water.
I'm just not optimistic about him having a repeat performance, based on his history. And even if he plays well, 4 mil for a sheltered bottom pairing guy is a bitter pill to swallow.

As @Peat said he wasn’t sheltered. At one stage he was playing on our top pair and playing really well. We also have 2 injury prone RHD in front of him. If you are going to spend a little more on the cap that’s a good spot to do it in.

I get it, he was terribad in Vancouver and I thought it was one the dumbest trades ever. I live in Van so I know how bad he was and couldn’t believe it. My friend called me to chirp me about it was how I found out. I thought he was pranking me because it made no sense. To my pleasant surprise it’s worked out well so far.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

If you only look at points, yes. If you actually look at what each of them provides, meh. Zucker as a 30-30 player helps the Penguins more than Kessel as a PPG player, the question is whether Zucker gets back to his 30-30 form.

How many games is he going to miss due to injury, which will cause Sullivan to play the next Garrett Wilson a lot more than designed? I know how many games Kessel is going to miss due to injury.

How many points is Zucker going to produce in the playoffs?

Who becomes our third best offensive player?


You know what you get with Kessel, good and bad, and without him the uncertainty on this team skyrockets. Without him, now you HAVE to make a bigger move. You have no choice.

 

[Beauner]

And worse. Don't forget worse. Much, much worse.

Zucker would have to lose multiple limbs for him to make the Penguins any worse than Kessel did last year

 

[Empoleon8771]

Phil Kessel and the Penguins: a breakup held 'hostage'

I don't have my phone on me so I can't give a summary, but for anyone who can, what does this say? Rossi has been hunting for Kessel's NTC, so I think this article may say who's on that.

 

[Pens1566]

If you only look at points, yes. If you actually look at what each of them provides, meh. Zucker as a 30-30 player helps the Penguins more than Kessel as a PPG player, the question is whether Zucker gets back to his 30-30 form.

He's done 30/30 once. His next best year is 47 pts.

 

[Tom Hanks]

True...it would create very little cap space if Phil-Zucker trade happened...but I’d almost rather the old man have no money to play with in a FA...heaven help us

The cap benefit from that might be enough to sign all the RFA’s though. Would still be tight which is why Rust is potential trade bait. We need some cap buffer for injuries so Rust for someone young and cheap or even straight futures.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Zucker would have to lose multiple limbs for him to make the Penguins any worse than Kessel did last year

Zucker's best does not match Kessel's worst.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's done 30/30 once. His next best year is 47 pts.

"the question is whether Zucker gets back to his 30-30 form."

Just conveniently ignored that part I see.

 

[Pens1566]

"the question is whether Zucker gets back to his 30-30 form."

Just conveniently ignored that part I see.

1 out of ~4 full seasons. Point remains.

 

[Tom Hanks]

How many games is he going to miss due to injury, which will cause Sullivan to play the next Garrett Wilson a lot more than designed? I know how many games Kessel is going to miss due to injury.

How many points is Zucker going to produce in the playoffs?

Who becomes our third best offensive player?


You know what you get with Kessel, good and bad, and without him the uncertainty on this team skyrockets. Without him, now you HAVE to make a bigger move. You have no choice.

He’s already here

 

[Malkinstheman]

Phil Kessel and the Penguins: a breakup held 'hostage'

I don't have my phone on me so I can't give a summary, but for anyone who can, what does this say? Rossi has been hunting for Kessel's NTC, so I think this article may say who's on that.

-Kessels holding everything hostage
-People in the organization think that Geno doesnt want Phil on his line anymore
- JR's Plan A was kessel. Plan B was listening to offers for Letang. Rossi says Ownership doesnt want to trade Geno/Letang this offseason or any offseason
- JR doesnt have the power to trade Geno/Letang. Anything involving those two would require sign-off from ownership
-Sully wants another Puck mover to fill out our top-6 D
-JR believes trading for players is more important than freeing up space for FA. The Maatta trade was the first of 3 big moves JR wants to make

-Kessels a frequent at a Pittsburgh Casino but the team didnt really care until it started impacting other players. Due to Phil, guys like Guentzel would come along the day before games.
-Geno was stuck being the "middle guy" between Phil/Sully which resulted in his bad season
-Essentially this article is just summarizing why Phil shouldnt be a Penguins. With Yohe's article from yesterday and now this, looks like we're being prepared for a trade.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

He’s already here

I didn't say player, I said offensive player.

 

[Beauner]

Zucker's best does not match Kessel's worst.

production-wise, sure. I'll gladly take the 25-30 point dropoff if it means I never have to see Kessel throw the puck directly to a defender when the slightest possibility of contact arises again.

 

[Pens1566]

production-wise, sure. I'll gladly take the 25-30 point dropoff if it means I never have to see Kessel throw the puck directly to a defender when the slightest possibility of contact arises again.

How would you feel if I told you it was more like a 40pt drop off?

/morpheus.gif

 

[Empoleon8771]

How many games is he going to miss due to injury, which will cause Sullivan to play the next Garrett Wilson a lot more than designed? I know how many games Kessel is going to miss due to injury.

Zucker hasn't missed more than 3 games in any season in the last 3 years.

How many points is Zucker going to produce in the playoffs?

How many does Kessel produce if the powerplay goes dry? How many goals does Kessel score in the playofs going forward?

Who becomes our third best offensive player?

Jake Guentzel, because Jake Guentzel is already their 3rd best offensive player.

You know what you get with Kessel, good and bad, and without him the uncertainty on this team skyrockets. Without him, now you HAVE to make a bigger move. You have no choice.

No you don't, you know the bad he provides. You don't know the good he provides going forward because he's nearing the age of seeing a decline.

 

[Tom Hanks]

-Kessels holding everything hostage
-People in the organization think that Geno doesnt want Phil on his line anymore
- JR's Plan A was kessel. Plan B was listening to offers for Letang. Rossi says Ownership doesnt want to trade Geno/Letang this offseason or any offseason
- JR doesnt have the power to trade Geno/Letang. Anything involving those two would require sign-off from ownership

-Essentially this article is just summarizing why Phil shouldnt be a Penguins. With Yohe's article from yesterday and now this, looks like we're being prepared for a trade.

Yeah if Phil stays he has to be on the 3rd line. He may mope about it but really couldn’t be any worse defensively than last season. Phil was on the ice for pretty much a goal per game!!! Maybe a line of Simon-Bjugstad-Kessel could work pretty well and insulate Phil’s shortcomings.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

production-wise, sure. I'll gladly take the 25-30 point dropoff if it means I never have to see Kessel throw the puck directly to a defender when the slightest possibility of contact arises again.

You have a weak stomach.

There are FAR worse things to the eye test than watching Phil Kessel play hockey.