Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: The Calm Before the Storm?

[Corvidae]

I like Colin Miller a lot. I always wondered if I was in the minority.

Too many Millers over the year and I can't remember which one plays what for who and is good or bad.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I thought it was more of a let’s wait and see what else is out there. So not his first option but will consider it.

That's exactly what it was, that's what McKenzie and LeBrun said it was. I still think that ends up happening, as long as Zucker doesn't get moved somewhere else, I still think Kessel for Zucker will happen.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Because the Wild need an offensive driver and Lee isn't that. They wouldn't just be acquiring Kessel as a sniper, and I don't know how anyone can call Kessel a sniper at this point in his career. He has averaged 55 assists a season in the last 2 years, he's more of a playmaker than a sniper at this point. You'd want to acquire Kessel after getting Lee because Lee and Kessel would complement each other really well.

Perhaps. I never called him a sniper, you did. I called Anders Lee a goal-scorer, which he is.

I just don't think Minnesota is looking to add 2 wingers. I think they want 1 winger who can score goals (yes, Kessel can still score goals). They probably also want a center because Koivu is coming off a knee issue and Sturm might not be ready for a regular role. Khovanov I don't think is ready, though he almost made the team last training camp.

Anyway, my hope is that they moved on so we don't make a bad trade.

Khovanov and a 2nd rounder in 2020? Yeah, I'd do it. A 1st in 2020? I would definitely do it.

Jason Zucker and little else? No thank you.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

They had the 5th lowest goals for in the NHL last season.

Right, but they already started to address that when they acquired Ryan Donato from Boston and Kevin Fiala from Nashville in a pair of solid trades for them.

Matt Dumba is also coming back, he is a huge piece.


Lastly, Minnesota is not built to be an offensive juggernaut.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Perhaps. I never called him a sniper, you did. I called Anders Lee a goal-scorer, which he is.

I just don't think Minnesota is looking to add 2 wingers. I think they want 1 winger who can score goals (yes, Kessel can still score goals). They probably also want a center because Koivu is coming off a knee issue and Sturm might not be ready for a regular role. Khovanov I don't think is ready, though he almost made the team last training camp.

Anyway, my hope is that they moved on so we don't make a bad trade.

Khovanov and a 2nd rounder in 2020? Yeah, I'd do it. A 1st in 2020? I would definitely do it.

Jason Zucker and little else? No thank you.

They need right handed players more than anything, that is their biggest need. Pretty much all of their top-9 forwards are left handed shots and Lee is also a lefty. Kessel still fills a need for them, especially seeing how they probably won't be able to pull off a center in another deal.

Kessel fills an absolutely massive hole for the Wild, getting a right handed, line driving playmaker is exactly what they need. They're really deep on LW (and that's before adding Lee), mediocre at center (Staal, Koivu and Kunin is a mediocre top-9 center group) and crap on RW. They have to play LWers on RW because of how many LWers they have. Their RWers for next year right now are probably Zucker, Fiala and Greenway, all of which are primarily LWers.

 

[Tom Hanks]

That's exactly what it was, that's what McKenzie and LeBrun said it was. I still think that ends up happening, as long as Zucker doesn't get moved somewhere else, I still think Kessel for Zucker will happen.

At the time that came out it was suggested that if the choice was Minnesota or Pittsburgh he’d likely pick Minnesota. That was probably a month ago now and things change on the daily (even hourly) in the hockey world at this time of year so grain of salt and all that, still hoping it happens though.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Kunin is going to play wing for them, I believe. To address part of the RW issue, which I agree is an issue for Minnesota.

Look, you don't have to sell me on Phil Kessel being very good.

Perhaps our coaching staff and management team should read your post and reconsider.

 

[Peat]

I have to say, my impression was that Rutherford saying "We want to create some cap for free agency" sounds most like a cover for trading Kessel for futures and saying "We liked this idea all along". Which means no Zucker from Minnesota.

 

[LOGiK]

People get so mad when I suggest Jack Hughes may not be ready for a full 82 games in the NHL this season.

Kappo Kakko, on the other hand...

Who cares if people get mad honestly. It wouldn't be much fun of a _discussion_ board if everyone agreed upon everything everyone said.

I agree with you and I also agree with Thomas Hanks. His skill level is NHL ready, but his body, 5'10 170(ish) is not.

It's not that he is too small - there have been and are players that size, but they know the game and how to stay alive at NHL level. Hughes, I think, will need to adjust a bit to playing with 6'3 220lb gorillas out to take his head off in the big boy league.

Hughes looks like a little boy and he _just_ turned 18.

 

[Pens x]

NYR are trying to get Panarin even if they aren’t the favourites I’m sure they’ll wait that out first. If you see buyouts on June 30 for them they’ll think they have a shot.

Also Hornqvist has a full NTC for the next 2 seasons. There’s nothing to suggest he’ll waive it

Why is JR such a schmuck? Why would he offer a full NTC to a middle six forward?

 

[Coastal Kev]

I have to say, my impression was that Rutherford saying "We want to create some cap for free agency" sounds most like a cover for trading Kessel for futures and saying "We liked this idea all along". Which means no Zucker from Minnesota.

Good, I never was thrilled with Zucker as the return!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I have to say, my impression was that Rutherford saying "We want to create some cap for free agency" sounds most like a cover for trading Kessel for futures and saying "We liked this idea all along". Which means no Zucker from Minnesota.

This is what I originally thought too, but then I read Yohe saying the Penguins wanted to get younger, so they wouldn't be going after any of the top UFAs. JR has also reiterated that he wants to make a culture change trade similar to Neal for Hornqvist, which is what Kessel for Zucker would be.

To me, the logical thought is Kessel for Zucker and Rust for that cap space to spend in free agency. That hits a lot of points: makes the Penguins younger and faster, gives them $4.8 million in cap space to play around with, makes the "Neal for Hornqvist" type of shakeup trade, adds some new faces in the locker room...that hits a lot of the points from what we've heard.

 

[LOGiK]

Agree on Panarin.

Bobrovsky > Florida
Pavelski > Tampa (Not sure how they're gonna fit him but he's met with them twice now)
Duchene > Nashville
Gardiner > New Jersey
Lee, Lehner > staying put

Jul 1 will be nuts! One of the best Free Agent Frenzy's in recent memory. Lookin forward to being completely wrong with these hunches.

God I wish we could take a stab at Gardiner. He's exactly what we need. Fast PMD with considerable offensive flair and a few strong years left. Playoffs aside, he's become a pretty capable defender too over the last few seasons. Wonder what the price tag is?

Pavelski met with MTL too, correct? I don't see that happening so probably TBL. For TBL, didn't that one defender retire and go on LTIR because of his back? Doesn't that free up some cap space?

I'd say Panarin would be making the dreaded star goes to NYR to fade off into the NYR way of buying up stars that never get them deep into the post season, but that Ranger team looked great at times last season and I think they can be built into a successful team if done properly. They have some hungry young kids.

 

[Peat]

Who cares if people get mad honestly. It wouldn't be much fun of a _discussion_ board if everyone agreed upon everything everyone said.

I agree with you and I also agree with Thomas Hanks. His skill level is NHL ready, but his body, 5'10 170(ish) is not.

It's not that he is too small - there have been and are players that size, but they know the game and how to stay alive at NHL level. Hughes, I think, will need to adjust a bit to playing with 6'3 220lb gorillas out to take his head off in the big boy league.

Hughes looks like a little boy and he _just_ turned 18.

I think that if he wasn't 1OA with all the pressure to show him off immediately that brings, nobody would argue with the idea that a year in college as a stepping stone. Still. I think they'll manage his exposure very closely and that it should be okay... should.

This is what I originally thought too, but then I read Yohe saying the Penguins wanted to get younger, so they wouldn't be going after any of the top UFAs. JR has also reiterated that he wants to make a culture change trade similar to Neal for Hornqvist, which is what Kessel for Zucker would be.

To me, the logical thought is Kessel for Zucker and Rust for that cap space to spend in free agency. That hits a lot of points: makes the Penguins younger and faster, gives them $4.8 million in cap space to play around with, makes the "Neal for Hornqvist" type of shakeup trade, adds some new faces in the locker room...that hits a lot of the points from what we've heard.

I suppose that could work out, but I think it's a bit less likely due to how complicated it is. It's not like Zucker is much younger than Nyquist or Donskoi (although cheaper than the former and better than the latter).

 

[Empoleon8771]

I suppose that could work out, but I think it's a bit less likely due to how complicated it is. It's not like Zucker is much younger than Nyquist or Donskoi (although cheaper than the former and better than the latter).

Eh, I don't think it's all that complicated. Kessel for Zucker is a fairly simple trade that makes the Penguins younger and faster. Moving Rust for futures seems like a pretty easy move, and that leaves you with a little under $5 million in cap space added. I feel like the alternative (Kessel for cap space and futures, getting younger via trade elsewhere) is probably more complicated.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

How can we just put aside his playoffs, though? Is there going to be less pressure for Mr. Gardiner playing for a team that expects to win the Cup?

I'd rather extend Schultz, at least we know he can play when it matters.

Well I'd like both of them. Would be an awesome middle pairing.

I put aside the playoffs cuz the Leafs don't have a large sample size there and I don't really believe in playoff carry-over from year to year, especially when the player changes teams.

Maybe if we attached Rust to Gudbranson someone would bite and clear that 4M x 2? Then ditch JJ with pick sacrifices + a throw-in like Jarry or something.

Sounds like an enormous cost, but god help us if Gudbranson regresses into his Vancouver form and JJ is still here in October. Would it not be worth it?

Our D would be stacked with Gardiner. Total price tag for the D-corps would be similar to what it is now. Bottom pairing Petterson+Riikola. Ruhwedel or Prow 7th man.

A man can dream

 

[Peat]

Eh, I don't think it's all that complicated. Kessel for Zucker is a fairly simple trade that makes the Penguins younger and faster. Moving Rust for futures seems like a pretty easy move, and that leaves you with a little under $5 million in cap space added. I feel like the alternative (Kessel for cap space and futures, getting younger via trade elsewhere) is probably more complicated.

Guess we'll see. I don't think either path is impossible. Just my immediate guess was Kessel for futures and remains so. edit: p.s. remember that Yohe has poo-poohed the idea of Rust getting moved too fwiw.

Well I'd like both of them. Would be an awesome middle pairing.

I put aside the playoffs cuz the Leafs don't have a large sample size there and I don't really believe in playoff carry-over from year to year, especially when the player changes teams.

Maybe if we attached Rust to Gudbranson someone would bite and clear that 4M x 2? Then ditch JJ with pick sacrifices + a throw-in like Jarry or something.

Sounds like an enormous cost, but god help us if Gudbranson regresses into his Vancouver form and JJ is still here in October. Would it not be worth it?

Our D would be stacked with Gardiner. Total price tag for the D-corps would be the same as it is now. Bottom pairing Petterson+Riikola. Ruhwedel or Prow 7th man.

A man can dream

Gardiner + Schultz is nightmare fuel in its own zone, and good luck to whichever of them starts being a PK regular.

Also, you probably don't need to attach Rust to Gudzilla right now.

 

[Beauner]

Good, I never was thrilled with Zucker as the return!

then what would you be thrilled with? He's quite literally the best player you can hope to get in return for Kessel

 

[Tom Hanks]

I have to say, my impression was that Rutherford saying "We want to create some cap for free agency" sounds most like a cover for trading Kessel for futures and saying "We liked this idea all along". Which means no Zucker from Minnesota.

I try not to read too much into what he says because he might get a phone call and a deal comes up that makes him flip like a pancake.

The main thing I hang on to in his words was playing more as a 5 man unit on the ice. Which was pretty obvious watching last season we weren’t doing but was good of him to acknowledge. What does that mean in roster changes? I would think Kessel out and fix the D which shouldn’t be as bad with Schultz healthy. JJ’s minutes tapered off late in the season even when we had Schultz and Tang out so there’s hope there too (if we are stuck with him).

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Guess we'll see. I don't think either path is impossible. Just my immediate guess was Kessel for futures and remains so. edit: p.s. remember that Yohe has poo-poohed the idea of Rust getting moved too fwiw.



Gardiner + Schultz is nightmare fuel in its own zone, and good luck to whichever of them starts being a PK regular.

Also, you probably don't need to attach Rust to Gudzilla right now.

I don't mind Schultz in his own zone at all. Gardiner's improved that way as well.

What do you think it'd take to get Gud out then?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Guess we'll see. I don't think either path is impossible. Just my immediate guess was Kessel for futures and remains so. edit: p.s. remember that Yohe has poo-poohed the idea of Rust getting moved too fwiw.

I don't know what the **** they're planning on doing then

They want cap space, they want to make changes to their team and they want to get younger and faster, yet they don't want to trade anyone but Kessel. They want to have their cake and eat it too it seems. Although I think Kessel for futures and using that cap space is probably the safest bet for a Kessel trade, since Kessel can veto a Minnesota trade.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I thought it was more of a let’s wait and see what else is out there. So not his first option but will consider it.

Not according to this. Seems pretty definitive.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/phil-kessel-veto-trade-penguins-1.5178735

Granted this article's like 11 days old though and something may have changed without me seeing it.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I don't mind Schultz in his own zone at all. Gardiner's improved that way as well.

What do you think it'd take to get Gud out then?

Florida to have cap space. Gudbranson isn’t leaving yet I’d imagine unless it’s part of a complex string of trades. He played well for us and uses his size without being a liability. Plus being a RHD.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Florida to have cap space. Gudbranson isn’t leaving yet I’d imagine unless it’s part of a complex string of trades. He played well for us and uses his size without being a liability. Plus being a RHD.

Totally agree he played well. Blew my expectations out of the water.
I'm just not optimistic about him having a repeat performance, based on his history. And even if he plays well, 4 mil for a sheltered bottom pairing guy is a bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Peat]

I don't mind Schultz in his own zone at all. Gardiner's improved that way as well.

What do you think it'd take to get Gud out then?

Actually wanting to move Guddy Mob is what it'd take. He's a much desired player type whose last NHL games were good - even with the Vancouver memories there, I think there's GMs who'd like him, particularly when there's a bunch of orgs short of RD. But there's not been a whisper of him moving all summer that I recall and that's probably because Rutherford would rather give up his last piece of sweet and sour chicken than Gudbranson right now.

I don't know what the **** they're planning on doing then

They want cap space, they want to make changes to their team and they want to get younger and faster, yet they don't want to trade anyone but Kessel. They want to have their cake and eat it too it seems. Although I think Kessel for futures and using that cap space is probably the safest bet for a Kessel trade, since Kessel can veto a Minnesota trade.

Cake and eat it is definitely how I'd describe Rutherford right now. Me, I think there's so many possibilities now that I'm just going to leave my expectations behind and enjoy what comes.

Totally agree he played well. Blew my expectations out of the water.
I'm just not optimistic about him having a repeat performance, based on his history. And even if he plays well, 4 mil for a sheltered bottom pairing guy is a bitter pill to swallow.

He. Wasn't. Sheltered.

I have no idea how this idea came to be, but unless someone's got some evidence that I missed, this is the most single out of sync with reality take on last season on the forum. It needs to die.