Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Standing On the Waters, Casting Your Bread

[Tom Hanks]

I’d say he’s down from last year but the team is usually **** now so it’s not surprising. His treatement (PP) hasn’t exactly been fair either, and he’s run into some injuries.

He was never going to have the same year though with Letang back in the line up.

The forwards have really **** on the D this season too. There is lack of support all over the ice.

 

[ColePens]

His offense talents alone are top three. The fact he can play a relatively steady game typically easily makes him top ten.

Obviously he is like 9th or 10th.

To act like the other top ten players haven’t had these same inconsistency is just silly. Karlsson is in one of them right now. Burns projected for more giveaways than Letang is last year when he won the Norris. Josi, Subban, And Gio all have the same issues.

I’d argue Doughty is the most consistent player (Maybe prime Keith) in the league and I’ve been in Staples to watch him play probably 30 times. He’s had plenty of games like Letang.

It is what you get when you play a player like that.

Pixies... nobody has a lower low than Letang. I watch a crap load of hockey and I'm talking Game 5 ECF Letang is a Kris Letang that makes Derrick Pouliot look safe on the back end. In terms of #1 dmen, it's safe to say Letang's lows are by far the lowest.

The fact you ignore that is astonishing. Even when Burns was playing like an idiot in the SCF, he has nothing on what Tangers is doing right now.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's a shame Dallas isn't a good trading partner for Letang. I would have loved to get Nuke off of their hands in a package where he's a throw in.

 

[ColePens]

It's a shame Dallas isn't a good trading partner for Letang. I would have loved to get Nuke off of their hands in a package where he's a throw in.

I think pixies has made a strong argument that Dallas COULD be a solid trade partner for us.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

You realize from an x's and o's standpoint a guy who "roams" all over the ice is a nightmare in the game of hockey? I'm all for creative control as a player, but the way systems work isn't based on 4 guys and 1 doing whatever the hell he wants.

It works if you have a stable partner with you, you have to accept that Letang's type of defenseman requires an anchor defensively on the other side. I think more like Methot with Karlsson for example. When Orpik wasn't crap, he looked good with Letang, before this season, Dumoulin & Letang looked good together as well.

This year, everyone's a mess, doesn't help at all.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think pixies has made a strong argument that Dallas COULD be a solid trade partner for us.

I might have missed that post. But if we could get Nuke, Lindell, and Faksa, that's a massive win. But then we have a lot of LD's.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

He was never going to have the same year though with Letang back in the line up.

The forwards have really **** on the D this season too. There is lack of support all over the ice.

I think he doesn’t look as dangerous with the puck this season or as confident. Maybe it’s no longer being the go to guy offensively or knowing the forwards will do something bad but I don’t think it’s just a reduced role.

 

[RizzleMcRib]

Schultz prorated stat wise is some what on pace to match last years total. He was at .5 points a game IIRC. He is at about .45 this year.


Never mind. I am wrong. Last year was .65

 

[Pancakes]

I was actually going to start a thread. Where would people rank him? He's had at least 3 stretches of brilliant play where he should have been higher in the Norris voting. He's also had 3 stretches of terribleness that led to trade talk. Then he's also had a very bad run of injuries, too.

I think he would rank somewhere from 10-20. He's a legit #1 dman, but I think he's easily fallen out of top 10 discussion. I think you can argue some very less talented players due to plain consistency over Letang's roller coaster level of play.

There were times where you could make legit arguments of 58 in the top 5. Inconsistencies have stopped that.

Until this year he was very very good. Top offensive production, high puck possession stats, huge minutes eater. Even on the PP he produced despite all our misgivings about his many failings there.

He was one of the best dmen in hockey. I don't know what is going on now, but I wouldn't have even thought about trading the Letang of the past 7 years. Way too good no matter how frustrating he sometimes is.

Even this year he's still a positive possession player, and still producing points. On pace for 50+. It's just that the critical mistakes at awful times in games have been the worst they have ever been this year.

 

[Riptide]

I might have missed that post. But if we could get Nuke, Lindell, and Faksa, that's a massive win. But then we have a lot of LD's.

Given the options on Dallas's blueline, I'd think that any deal with them re Letang has to include Klingberg.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Here's what magically gets them playing a bit better imo. Some pairing of C's in the bottom 6 thats close to 2016 Bones+Cullen. Sid and Letang not playing like absolute ass(Sid's more of a case of getting him energized i believe. Getting better roster players is a part of that). Think if you make the right moves, you don't even have to give up Letang. Theres potentially a higher 1st rd pick(to draft or use as trade bait). Theres lower tier/effective players that can be had via trade. There's gonna be good players available in FA'y.

I don't mind not re-signing Bones at all as long as they keep their eyes on the prize for a really good pivot @ 3C. Perhaps a LW/D beef up too. They gotta get away from this bigger is better thing if thats real and look more towards where potential targets play/what they do on the ice. Do they win 50/50 pucks. Do they go to the high danger scoring areas. How effective are they turning pucks up ice/2-way play and how effective are they with zone exits/entries. Do they make the players they play with better or worse(Sutter Alert). Use Sam Ventura's brain since he's on the payroll(his stats with conjuction with the eye test). Thats how you build winners.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think he doesn’t look as dangerous with the puck this season or as confident. Maybe it’s no longer being the go to guy offensively or knowing the forwards will do something bad but I don’t think it’s just a reduced role.

Well for one, the coaching staff basically says Letang can't have the PP Minutes he wants, then he does anyway. If you're Schultz, what does that say about you emerging and taking that contract to stick with the team? That oh, hey man, thanks for finally blossoming into the defensemen everyone thought you could be, now go play second fiddle to a guy that isn't even half as good as you on the powerplay, but he's there because, money.

Also, they kept forcing Maatta-Schultz, when Cole-Schultz worked.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Pixies... nobody has a lower low than Letang. I watch a crap load of hockey and I'm talking Game 5 ECF Letang is a Kris Letang that makes Derrick Pouliot look safe on the back end. In terms of #1 dmen, it's safe to say Letang's lows are by far the lowest.

The fact you ignore that is astonishing. Even when Burns was playing like an idiot in the SCF, he has nothing on what Tangers is doing right now.

Pff Burns looks like a fool regularly out there, most overrated dman in the league.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Given the options on Dallas's blueline, I'd think that any deal with them re Letang has to include Klingberg.

Would that be worth it for them? Klingberg is maybe a 40-50pt guy, Letang is a 50-60pt+ guy and put him with Methot and they might get the best out of him, but Klingberg is also cheaper. Curious why that would be something Dallas would consider.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Until this year he was very very good. Top offensive production, high puck possession stats, huge minutes eater. Even on the PP he produced despite all our misgivings about his many failings there.

He was one of the best dmen in hockey. I don't know what is going on now, but I wouldn't have even thought about trading the Letang of the past 7 years. Way too good no matter how frustrating he sometimes is.

Even this year he's still a positive possession player, and still producing points. On pace for 50+. It's just that the critical mistakes at awful times in games have been the worst they have ever been this year.

Yeah, but he’s on pace for 22 ES points and 0 ES goals this season.

I know they’re struggling to score at ES but that’s terrible for him, his greatest strength used to be his ES play and I’d give him a good amount of blame for the ES production.

 

[Riptide]

Schultz prorated stat wise is some what on pace to match last years total. He was at .5 points a game IIRC. He is at about .45 this year.


Never mind. I am wrong. Last year was .65

Yes, but that number was always going to go down. Just Letang being mostly healthy would eat up a lot of prime chances that last season went to Schultz.

 

[Pancakes]

Yeah, but he’s on pace for 22 ES points and 0 ES goals this season.
I know they’re struggling to score at ES but that’s terrible for him, his greatest strength used to be his ES play and I’d give him a good amount of blame for the ES production.

That's fair. I'm just saying the underlying stats suggest he hasn't fallen off a cliff or anything. His possession stats and point pace are still fine. Could be better, but not awful.

We need to be real careful before dealing this guy. Real careful.

 

[Gurglesons]

Pixies... nobody has a lower low than Letang. I watch a crap load of hockey and I'm talking Game 5 ECF Letang is a Kris Letang that makes Derrick Pouliot look safe on the back end. In terms of #1 dmen, it's safe to say Letang's lows are by far the lowest.

The fact you ignore that is astonishing. Even when Burns was playing like an idiot in the SCF, he has nothing on what Tangers is doing right now.

Uh. Burns looks way worse all the time.

I watch these teams on the regular because I’m stuck on the West Coast. I doubt many of you are staying up until midnight to watch the Sharks.

I think this is the main issue with the eye test. You watch Letang nonstop so you see his consistent flaws.

Burns last year had over 160 giveaways. Letang in the worst we’ve ever seen him consistently still does not prorate to that amount.

 

[ColePens]

That's fair. I'm just saying the underlying stats suggest he hasn't fallen off a cliff or anything. His possession stats and point pace are still fine. Could be better, but not awful.

We need to be real careful before dealing this guy. Real careful.

That's putting it lightly. Pull a Joe Sakic or GTFO. I think the excitement of something new gets a lot of users fired up after being frustrated with #58's injuries and inconsistencies. But this EASILY could be a situation where we look back and say "Boy that was dumb."

Then again, it's impossible to say. Despres/Lovejoy looked idiotic. Start off even dumber as Despres looked like a top 4 dman and Lovejoy sucked. Despres doesn't disclose a concussion, tries to play through it, messes up his career. Lovejoy turns an insane playoff run into gold in 2016. There are just so many things you cannot predict.

I'm sure if a message board existed in the early 90s, Craig Patrick's trades would be looked at this the same way. Sometimes they work. Sometimes they fail miserably.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Well for one, the coaching staff basically says Letang can't have the PP Minutes he wants, then he does anyway. If you're Schultz, what does that say about you emerging and taking that contract to stick with the team? That oh, hey man, thanks for finally blossoming into the defensemen everyone thought you could be, now go play second fiddle to a guy that isn't even half as good as you on the powerplay, but he's there because, money.

Also, they kept forcing Maatta-Schultz, when Cole-Schultz worked.

I get the likelihood of him being pissed off, a few of the D could be pissed off about winning the cup without him and then this version of Letang getting so many minutes and being put into important situations regardless of his performance. I don’t think that would have instantly made Schultz look less dangerous.

Cole-Schultz hasn’t looked great this year either. Iirc Cole-Schultz was pretty sheltered and he probably hasn’t gotten that this season when he’s with Maatta. Could be hurting him. Could be that the entire team is sleepwalking and he’s no exception. I wouldn’t single him out for his level of lower play.

That's fair. I'm just saying the underlying stats suggest he hasn't fallen off a cliff or anything. His possession stats and point pace are still fine. Could be better, but not awful.

We need to be real careful before dealing this guy. Real careful.

Yeah, ultimately I don’t know what they’re supposed to do with Letang. I think they really f***ed up by not easing him in and his continued usage isn’t helping remedy that. Beyond that, idk. If he bounces back trading him is a mistake but if he doesn’t then not trading him ASAP is a mistake. The team is such a clusterf*** that it makes matters worse.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The problem is you can't go and retain Schultz, then use him less and not on the spot where he makes his bread and butter better than Letang, and still expect the same production. I think you have to pick and build around that. Schultz isn't a bad guy to add to, you add a stronger 2nd pairing RD that can produce 40+pts, then you're not that bad with production on the back end and with PMD's.

Then if Letang is a guy you MUST move, you damn well better add those pieces from losing him. If it's that Dallas deal, then cool, having Klingberg and Schultz down the right side and if Oleksiak is the 3rd one, we're fine. the LD can not be Dumoulin, Maatta and then Hunwick, Hunwick was a nice idea, worked for a bit, then it just didn't anymore at all. I'd rather he was gone, just gone, keep Cole around and risk losing him for nothing or you have the cap to sign him if Horny walks.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I get the likelihood of him being pissed off, a few of the D could be pissed off about winning the cup without him and then this version of Letang getting so many minutes and being put into important situations regardless of his performance. I don’t think that would have instantly made Schultz look less dangerous.

Cole-Schultz hasn’t looked great this year either. Iirc Cole-Schultz was pretty sheltered and he probably hasn’t gotten that this season when he’s with Maatta. Could be hurting him. Could be that the entire team is sleepwalking and he’s no exception. I wouldn’t single him out for his level of lower play.




Yeah, ultimately I don’t know what they’re supposed to do with Letang. I think they really ****ed up by not easing him in and his continued usage isn’t helping remedy that. Beyond that, idk. If he bounces back trading him is a mistake but if he doesn’t then not trading him ASAP is a mistake. The team is such a cluster**** that it makes matters worse.

I would be pissed.

You work your ass off, you make a mistake, the coaching staff makes you pay for it, you then learn from your mistake and don't make it again, but the next one you make, you know the consequences.

Letang comes back, makes HUGE ASS mistakes, no consequences, in fact, his minutes increase...

How the f*** would that make anyone feel? Team player or not, I am pissed off if that's what I am seeing on a consistent basis.

This is why I am so on the fence about Letang, either he wakes up and is better, or this continues to happen and well, it's infectious. People may not want to believe it, but it is.

 

[TimmyD]

Would this work with the cap?

Letang for Klingberg, Faksa, Nuke and 2nd? If it does how do people feel about that deal?

 

[Gurglesons]

The issue is Klingberg is back to being a beast. Likely getting a Faska, Hesikanen, and a pick trade.

 

[Gurglesons]

Would this work with the cap?

Letang for Klingberg, Faksa, Nuke and 2nd? If it does how do people feel about that deal?

It would likely be Klingberg straight up and maybe Shore. Klingberg is a top ten defenseman in terms of production.