Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building: SPEED, YOUTH, AND POSITIVITY!

[ColePens]

The thread where we stay positive and we acquire youth and speed. LET'S GO.

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[Malkinstheman]

@Empoleon8771 I should clarify, the Maatta trade was the first of ALTEAST 3 trades JR believes are necessary before camp.

 

[Empoleon8771]

To respond to @Beauner's post, I think you're right that moving Johnson was the 3rd move. Reading that Sullivan wants to add another puck mover and remembering that Johnson was a part of the original rumored Kessel deal, I think it's a good guess to say that Maatta, Johnson and Kessel were the 3 moves JR wanted to make this off-season.

 

[Peat]

-Kessels holding everything hostage
-People in the organization think that Geno doesnt want Phil on his line anymore
- JR's Plan A was kessel. Plan B was listening to offers for Letang. Rossi says Ownership doesnt want to trade Geno/Letang this offseason or any offseason
- JR doesnt have the power to trade Geno/Letang. Anything involving those two would require sign-off from ownership
-Sully wants another Puck mover to fill out our top-6 D
-JR believes trading for players is more important than freeing up space for FA. The Maatta trade was the first of 3 big moves JR wants to make

-Kessels a frequent at a Pittsburgh Casino but the team didnt really care until it started impacting other players. Due to Phil, guys like Guentzel would come along the day before games.
-Geno was stuck being the "middle guy" between Phil/Sully which resulted in his bad season
-Essentially this article is just summarizing why Phil shouldnt be a Penguins. With Yohe's article from yesterday and now this, looks like we're being prepared for a trade.

I missed the italicised. Great news. Someone gets it.

The bolded is why Kessel should be gone, all other considerations aside. If he's no longer part of the solution in getting the best out of Geno, but the problem, he has to go.

Because I'm expecting Gudbranson to fall off hard. Don't feel what he did last year is sustainable. Hope I'm wrong. Our season could depend on it.

If you think he's going to fall off hard, then yeah. But I see no reason to think he's going to fall that hard. If he reverts back to standard Gudbranson, he's a player you can still bury.

 

[ColePens]

The Kessel stuff is dumb. I can't stand it.

- You brought him here to win A cup with the way he can change the game. He was part of 2 in his first 2 years.

- You knew he had a NTC and you were going to be stuck with some bad later years. Now you want to trade him for value.

- You accepted his NTC and we all knew up front that he doesn't backcheck and plays the way he plays. We accepted this risk for a Cup. We got 2.


I just can't stand how people slam Kessel. Sure he wasn't great but the guy produces and we knew the player we were getting. Everything played out as well as it could have.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Is Sullivan making him make horrible decisions with the puck? Is Sullivan forcing him to not shoot the puck when he has the opportunity?

No.

But I now have a question for you: Did the Pens immediately look different the moment Tocchet left the organization???? Maybe Phil/Geno didn't change, maybe the guy getting all of the credit doesn't deserve it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Kessel stuff is dumb. I can't stand it.

- You brought him here to win A cup with the way he can change the game. He was part of 2 in his first 2 years.

- You knew he had a NTC and you were going to be stuck with some bad later years. Now you want to trade him for value.

- You accepted his NTC and we all knew up front that he doesn't backcheck and plays the way he plays. We accepted this risk for a Cup. We got 2.


I just can't stand how people slam Kessel. Sure he wasn't great but the guy produces and we knew the player we were getting. Everything played out as well as it could have.

I don't think people are slamming Kessel for what he has done here though, people are slamming Kessel because he was bad last year and it's time to move on. I think it's more ridiculous that people are getting mad about speculated Kessel returns for the same reason as your 2nd point.

To add, my guess for why we're getting these articles right now is because Arizona circled back to Kessel. Connecting the dots, a rumor earlier this week came out that the Coyotes wanted Duchene, but he and other free agents were all way out of their price range. The Coyotes circling back to Kessel explains why JR has gone from "Kessel is probably staying" to having these articles out.

Edit: reading from Coyotes fans says the same thing, they also think Arizona is circling back to Kessel. It looks like they tried to get Duchene and Pavelski, and there wasn't enough interest or they couldn't offer enough money for them.

 

[Malkinstheman]

Yeah I love Phil for helping bring two cups here but I think its time for a change. I have no bad feelings towards him.

 

[iFishyHD]

@Empoleon8771 Maatta, Kessel, Johnson (and whatever assets we may have to move him Rust, Jarry etc.) would be my most realistic guess. Maybe he thought he was killing two birds with one stone when he went for the Rask/Johnson part of the Kessel/Zucker swap.

 

[Beauner]

The Kessel stuff is dumb. I can't stand it.

- You brought him here to win A cup with the way he can change the game. He was part of 2 in his first 2 years.

- You knew he had a NTC and you were going to be stuck with some bad later years. Now you want to trade him for value.

- You accepted his NTC and we all knew up front that he doesn't backcheck and plays the way he plays. We accepted this risk for a Cup. We got 2.


I just can't stand how people slam Kessel. Sure he wasn't great but the guy produces and we knew the player we were getting. Everything played out as well as it could have.

Don't get me wrong. His first 3 years here, he was everthing we could've asked for and more. Without him we don't go back-to-back. But this team needs change, and his game has dropped off significantly to the point where he's not the net positive asset we originally acquired. It's time to move on

No.

But I now have a question for you: Did the Pens immediately look different the moment Tocchet left the organization???? Maybe Phil/Geno didn't change, maybe the guy getting all of the credit doesn't deserve it.

Correlation does not equal causation

 

[IcedCapp]

The Kessel stuff is dumb. I can't stand it.

- You brought him here to win A cup with the way he can change the game. He was part of 2 in his first 2 years.

- You knew he had a NTC and you were going to be stuck with some bad later years. Now you want to trade him for value.

- You accepted his NTC and we all knew up front that he doesn't backcheck and plays the way he plays. We accepted this risk for a Cup. We got 2.


I just can't stand how people slam Kessel. Sure he wasn't great but the guy produces and we knew the player we were getting. Everything played out as well as it could have.

Kessel hasn't changed since he's been here. The people around him have. Kinda crazy girlfriend / boyfriend syndrome or something.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The Kessel stuff is dumb. I can't stand it.

- You brought him here to win A cup with the way he can change the game. He was part of 2 in his first 2 years.

- You knew he had a NTC and you were going to be stuck with some bad later years. Now you want to trade him for value.

- You accepted his NTC and we all knew up front that he doesn't backcheck and plays the way he plays. We accepted this risk for a Cup. We got 2.


I just can't stand how people slam Kessel. Sure he wasn't great but the guy produces and we knew the player we were getting. Everything played out as well as it could have.

To add to what Cole just said perfectly, if the market is no good for this (OR ANY OTHER) player, do not make a bad trade!

We need cap space. If he HAS to go, take back no salary and get the best futures deal possible. Then get to work because we are going to not only need help on defense but on offense without Phil the Thrill.

Pierre-Olivier Joseph and Arizona's 2020 first. Less than that is not a good idea.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Don't get me wrong. His first 3 years here, he was everthing we could've asked for and more. Without him we don't go back-to-back. But this team needs change, and his game has dropped off significantly to the point where he's not the net positive asset we originally acquired. It's time to move on



Correlation does not equal causation

Unless it does...

SO I went back and watched a few highlight packages of Zucker, highly distracted by the terrible nonsensical rap music, and I see why the Pens covet him. He reminds me of a mini/quicker Horny and that's not a bad thing at all. I just hope he works better with Geno than Horny does.

One other thing I observed, Grandlund is special.

 

[K Fleur]

What team is Ferland rumored to be most interested in signing with?

Not like they have the space anyways but I really hope it’s not here.

 

[Beauner]

Unless it does...

SO I went back and watched a few highlight packages of Zucker, highly distracted by the terrible nonsensical rap music, and I see why the Pens covet him. He reminds me of a mini/quicker Horny and that's not a bad thing at all. I just hope he works better with Geno than Horny does.

One other thing I observed, Grandlund is special.

Weird how Granlund didn't really work in Nashville. Still a garbage trade by Minny though

 

[Coastal Kev]

Weird how Granlund didn't really work in Nashville. Still a garbage trade by Minny though

Can we get him?? IF so, do it ASAP.

 

[Peat]

Unless it does...

SO I went back and watched a few highlight packages of Zucker, highly distracted by the terrible nonsensical rap music, and I see why the Pens covet him. He reminds me of a mini/quicker Horny and that's not a bad thing at all. I just hope he works better with Geno than Horny does.

One other thing I observed, Grandlund is special.

I like the mini/quicker Horny comparison. That's kinda what I see. He pushes play heavily in the right direction, he causes problems, and he hangs around the goal scoring areas. I think Geno can definitely use such players.

My only real worry about him would be that, given his game is built around hustle, whether being given a lot of money has taken the edge off that made him successful. But there's no way to answer that.

 

[SweetStache]

Florida to have cap space. Gudbranson isn’t leaving yet I’d imagine unless it’s part of a complex string of trades. He played well for us and uses his size without being a liability. Plus being a RHD.

Yeah he was better than expected at times, a solid defender...but let’s not forget that he still had a habit of just chucking the puck up the boards like a gernade, unnecessarily turning the puck over instead of even looking for an outlet.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Also, I think some stuff was left out of the description of that article:



I don't know if Kessel is ghosting the Athletic or if he's ghosting management, it's really bad if he's doing the latter.

Pierre-Olivier Joseph and Arizona's 2020 first. Less than that is not a good idea.

Replace POJ with Fischer and make that 1st lottery protected and I think that's ultimately what the deal ends up being.

 

[ColePens]

The casino pops back up. Classic Despres angle.

He's been playing poker before you acquired him. It wasn't an issue when we won Cups. Shocker.

 

[Beauner]

yeah the casino thing is dumb. The much, much, much (can I emphasize much?) more impactful aspect of this is that he's alienating one of your franchise superstars

 

[Allie Kitsune]

This organization and its obsession with gambling...

 

[Peat]

That's one of the heavier bits of character assassination I've seen in a while and I read the political parts of the papers every day.

All that said... the only part of that I think really matters is whether it puts Geno in the middle and how Geno feels.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Kessel hasn't changed since he's been here. The people around him have. Kinda crazy girlfriend / boyfriend syndrome or something.

He hasnt changed, but who he is on the ice has pushed out more to the extremes IMO. The bad defense has gotten worse, the sloppy turnover have gotten more frequent and have a situation where he positively affects the lineup has been minimized.

Not all his fault by any means but we are at the point where i believe its worth asking if its worth it anymore.

 

[Pens1566]

And of course, it's f***ing Rossi ...