Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Silver and gold won't buy back the beat of a heart grown cold

[Speaking Moistly]

2017-18 trade spoiler alert:

Pens lack skill.

Pens can only trade skill for other skill.

Pens then still lack skill.

Need to mini rebuild through FA and draft.

They don’t lack skill. They manage to look like they do, but they actually have a lot available to them. They have holes that need to be filled but more than anything they have to stop being lazy idiots,

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

2017-18 trade spoiler alert:

Pens lack skill.

Pens can only trade skill for other skill.

Pens then still lack skill.

Need to mini rebuild through FA and draft.

First of all, no, the Pens don't lack skill. They have arguably the highest skill level of any core in the league. What they're missing is skilled depth, which a shrewd GM can pick up in any number of ways...or did you miss when JR picked up an elite winger for picks and prospects, a skilled vet d-man for Rob Scuderi, and an exceptionally skilled young defenseman for a 3rd round pick a couple years ago?

 

[ColePens]

They don’t lack skill. They manage to look like they do, but they actually have a lot available to them. They have holes that need to be filled but more than anything they have to stop being lazy idiots,

It does blow my mind people watch these games and think it's a skill issue and not an issue with mental/physical exhaustion/lack of focus/energy/lack of attention to detail.

I think, more than anything, JR had a good idea of new blood but he didn't (probably couldn't) get the new blood in he needed. We need hungry players more than anything right now.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Valid points. Good post. I'm not against having a physical team and as you saw against Columbus a physical type game really woke everyone up and the team was engaged.

The Pens are evolving more than changing to the current situation. Could they have done a better job? We'll never really know because only JR. and company know what is out there for them plus those cost factors.

I'd be heavy on Kane and Bozak, and if Bozak isn't a reality I'd be fine with Cullen back. It just sucks Cullen would want to be home as long as possible. I surely don't blame him, though.

Pens are just losing possession and secondary opportunities with all of these younger smallish wingers. If we can get help without losing them that would be great. It just makes the depth that much stronger.

Heck, Cullen would be the easiest acquisition while being the cheapest.

I certainly wish they could do more in the way of adding bigger players who can skate. That might mean they tempt continuity a bit more within the room/lines.

Kane should be an easy buy in terms of assets being a rental, and most likely a pure rental. I would hope they have a bit of hope re-signing him and using Hagelin as the main cog to being allowed to do it sending him out the other way. That opens more space to do a bit more like adding Bozak.

 

[PensandCaps]

If you can get Bozak, it fixes alot of issues. You get a good 3rd line and a Centre who can play with Kessel.

But I would also love Neal back on Malkins wing, another duo that works.

 

[Pens1566]

Dammit, they really need to get over this "Sprong needs to work on his 200ft game" narrative bullshit and see what the kid can do. We're struggling to put pucks in the net, that's what he does.

 

[billybudd]

First of all, no, the Pens don't lack skill. They have arguably the highest skill level of any core in the league. What they're missing is skilled depth, which a shrewd GM can pick up in any number of ways...or did you miss when JR picked up an elite winger for picks and prospects, a skilled vet d-man for Rob Scuderi, and an exceptionally skilled young defenseman for a 3rd round pick a couple years ago?

Just to play Devil's Advocate, do you look around the league and see a skilled D in the vein of Daley or Schultz who could be had for a salary dump (Hagelin, f/e)? I'm not sure I do.

GMs react to changing circumstances--especially when it's a multiple cup winner who set the example--and it might be that the cat's out of the bag on what can happen when you sell low on offensive players on the blueline. In a 180 of what we all expected, the center position might be easier to fix than defense.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Meh careful when you say that. If that was the attitude in 2015 around this time, then we'd never have back to back Cups. And then again, he tried to go all in with awful decisions in 2014 and it was brutal. So the good/bad of JR. One went really bad and looked to have closed up a window. The other opened it up for a long damn time.

We heard when JR came to Pittsburgh he'd be trying to win each year. Treating each year like a single season NHL 18 game is dangerous, but his six-shooting wild west ways got us back to back Cups so whether it is lucky or not, he did exactly what we dreamed about.

He's not going to stop now.

I think Sullivan was the main man/catalyst for the changes in 2015/16. He was the one who first started talking about identity, so he gave JR a direction in which he started to work on trades. Plus Sullivan gave young players a chance and that paid out.

This year managment stepped away a bit from an identity philosophy and coaching staff hasn't been eager to bring fresh blood from WBS.
So this year might actually be closer to 2014. Team looks stale and if they'll bring players like Bozak and Kane at the deadline,it would look more like a collection of players, rather than a team with an identity (i.e. something that was in JR's first year and under MJ - a team destined for an early playoffs exit, like 1st or 2nd round).

I'm not against trades, I just think that Bozak and Kane are the wrong guys and I wouldn't throw assets on them, because I don't think they will push us far in the playoffs.

This is just my opinion, of course I could be wrong. Last year I thought that back to back wins would be highly unlikely too, but they pulled it out. Not without a good portion of a luck tho.

 

[chethejet]

Pens at this point are not favorites to win the cup. Does adding make that happen. Not sure but a good long term center certainly helps. The question is who will be moved that may not fit in the future plans. Hags, contract is an issue but cap room going up helps. Sheary, seems he is a player that will help a team looking for secondary offense at a decent contract.

 

[Pens x]

What they're missing is skilled depth, which a shrewd GM can pick up in any number of ways...or did you miss when JR picked up an elite winger for picks and prospects, a skilled vet d-man for Rob Scuderi, and an exceptionally skilled young defenseman for a 3rd round pick a couple years ago?

Apparently our shrewd GM was unable to pick up these skilled players at the draft, free agency, during the off-season or in October, November and December. Hopefully he can find a solution in January or before the trade deadline. We are certainly tuning out of time.

 

[Beauner]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, do you look around the league and see a skilled D in the vein of Daley or Schultz who could be had for a salary dump (Hagelin, f/e)? I'm not sure I do.

GMs react to changing circumstances--especially when it's a multiple cup winner who set the example--and it might be that the cat's out of the bag on what can happen when you sell low on offensive players on the blueline. In a 180 of what we all expected, the center position might be easier to fix than defense.

Maybe Cody Ceci? Reading about him, he seems like he is in a smiliar position to Schultz was when he was with Edmonton. Playing top minutes when he really should be a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy. Maybe not as offensively gifted as Schultz but I think getting out of Ottawa could do him some good.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Apparently our shrewd GM was unable to pick up these skilled players at the draft, free agency, during the off-season or in October, November and December. Hopefully he can find a solution in January or before the trade deadline. We are certainly tuning out of time.

Daley was only acquired in mid-December, and Schultz wasn't acquired until February. JR's recent moves suggest he's about to make a big one shortly, so as in most areas of life, patience is a virtue. In a cap world, a team's roster issues aren't always addressed or fixed in the summer or the first months of the season.

It's a tough pill for an instant gratification world where people are rushing to judgement so they can be the first to say "I told you so", I know.

Just to play Devil's Advocate, do you look around the league and see a skilled D in the vein of Daley or Schultz who could be had for a salary dump (Hagelin, f/e)? I'm not sure I do.

GMs react to changing circumstances--especially when it's a multiple cup winner who set the example--and it might be that the cat's out of the bag on what can happen when you sell low on offensive players on the blueline. In a 180 of what we all expected, the center position might be easier to fix than defense.

To be clear, I don't think skilled d is our issue anyway - Daley and Schultz were simply examples of how you can upgrade your skill without having to trade skill in kind. Schultz coming back will be a huge boost for the blueline. Our most pressing need is a skilled center, and despite what EightyOne suggested, we have the assets to acquire one.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I think our D is fine now. When Schultz is back, Hunwick should be the guy rotating in.

Maatta
Dumoulin
Letang
Schultz
Oleksiak
Ruhwedel

Then rotate Hunwick with Ruhwedel. That is more than fine. It just depends on the coaching getting tighter. More efficient.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Dammit, they really need to get over this "Sprong needs to work on his 200ft game" narrative bull**** and see what the kid can do. We're struggling to put pucks in the net, that's what he does.

The problem is that we don't have enough offensive centers to exploit all our scoring RWs. Horny looks mediocre when he's beside anyone but Crosby, which leaves Kessel playing with Malkin or Sheahan.

As currently constituted, we either waste Kessel or Sprong with Sheahan, which makes a call-up pretty pointless.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were hoping Oleksiak could be a cheap boost to their D. Hoping. Cheap acquisition and hope for the best, only he doesn’t have the history of success Daley and Schultz did.

Bortuzzo for Cole, Scuderi for Daley (LOL!) and a 3rd for Schultz. They’ve been on a nice little run of that kind of thing.

 

[Gurglesons]

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were hoping Oleksiak could be a cheap boost to their D. Hoping. Cheap acquisition and hope for the best, only he doesn’t have the history of success Daley and Schultz did.

Bortuzzo for Cole, Scuderi for Daley (LOL!) and a 3rd for Schultz. They’ve been on a nice little run of that kind of thing.

I mean, Oleksiak is fine as a # 6, but it just proves how reactionary and dumb the Hunwick signing was.

It is why I hate our off season moves. Hunwick and Reaves were obviously poor moves in June.

 

[mpp9]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, do you look around the league and see a skilled D in the vein of Daley or Schultz who could be had for a salary dump (Hagelin, f/e)? I'm not sure I do.

GMs react to changing circumstances--especially when it's a multiple cup winner who set the example--and it might be that the cat's out of the bag on what can happen when you sell low on offensive players on the blueline. In a 180 of what we all expected, the center position might be easier to fix than defense.

I think D is an issue if Letang doesn’t get back to form. But you’re not gonna replace good Letang with a typical depth move. Daley trade is unlikely to happen again. And I don’t see us landing an impact offensive D without using assets we need for a center or moving Letang.

Personally, I’d explore a big deal with Florida using Letang. Could buy low on Ekblad and Trocheck if they’re dumb enough. They get a potential top 5 D (when he’s good Letang). We get a longterm building block on D to help extend our window. Schultz takes over PP duties for good.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I said to trade Fleury after Murray's first career start. Boy did people say i was dumb....

It was a dumb statement. We don’t beat Washington in the playoffs without Fleury.

Guess you still haven’t learned that the thing we are lacking this season with talented depth was our competitive advantage the last two seasons and the lack there of right now is why we look like shit.

 

[PensandCaps]

It was a dumb statement. We don’t beat Washington in the playoffs without Fleury.

Guess you still haven’t learned that the thing we are lacking this season with talented depth was our competitive advantage the last two seasons and the lack there of right now is why we look like ****.

Not sure what you're getting at.

Also, who's to say Jarry wouldn't have beaten Washington. Or that the pens would've used Fleurys cap space to make the team better and then beat Washington in 5 games.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Not sure what you're getting at.

Also, who's to say Jarry wouldn't have beaten Washington. Or that the pens would've used Fleurys cap space to make the team better and then beat Washington in 5 games.

Hahahahaha funny.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean Fleury was pretty bad for half of both the Columbus and Washington series.

If he was as good as people want to make him seem in retrospect, he wouldn’t have been immediately pulled in the Ottawa series.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

I mean Fleury was pretty bad for half of both the Columbus and Washington series.

If he was as good as people want to make him seem in retrospect, he wouldn’t have been immediately pulled in the Ottawa series.

And we were outplayed heavily in both series and Fleury stole 2 games in the Washington series.

Our possession numbers were awful. We played most of the game in our end.

The what if revisionist history is nauseating. What happened happened. Fleury took us as far as he could before he AND the team needed a spark again and it was time to put Murray in again. Murray is Sullivan’s guy and he was going back to him anyways. The Pens needed a lift. We were heavily outplayed by Ottawa too. We just didn’t have the possession and breakout from the prior year and it showed. We won on great goaltending coming up big in certain games, counter attacking, heart and luck. Last year’s cup win wasn’t pretty. We were dominant in 2015 and not so much in 2016.

 

[Gurglesons]

And we were outplayed heavily in both series and Fleury stole 2 games in the Washington series.

Our possession numbers were awful. We played most of the game in our end.

The what if revisionist history is nauseating. What happened happened. Fleury took us as far as he could before he AND the team needed a spark again and it was time to put Murray in again. Murray is Sullivan’s guy and he was going back to him anyways. The Pens needed a lift. We were heavily outplayed by Ottawa too. We just didn’t have the possession and breakout from the prior year and it showed. We won on great goaltending coming up big in certain games, counter attacking, heart and luck. Last year’s cup win wasn’t pretty. We were dominant in 2015 and not so much in 2016.

I mean, I agree. But, Jarry is pretty damn good and who is to say he doesn’t implode when he isn’t playing at home like MAF.

 

[billybudd]

I think D is an issue if Letang doesn’t get back to form. But you’re not gonna replace good Letang with a typical depth move. Daley trade is unlikely to happen again. And I don’t see us landing an impact offensive D without using assets we need for a center or moving Letang.

Personally, I’d explore a big deal with Florida using Letang. Could buy low on Ekblad and Trocheck if they’re dumb enough. They get a potential top 5 D (when he’s good Letang). We get a longterm building block on D to help extend our window. Schultz takes over PP duties for good.

I don't know how feasible that is because I don't understand the Panthers' front office, but if we could turn Letang into Ekblad and Trocheck somehow, man, sign me up.

 

[ColePens]

I think Sullivan was the main man/catalyst for the changes in 2015/16. He was the one who first started talking about identity, so he gave JR a direction in which he started to work on trades. Plus Sullivan gave young players a chance and that paid out.

This year managment stepped away a bit from an identity philosophy and coaching staff hasn't been eager to bring fresh blood from WBS.
So this year might actually be closer to 2014. Team looks stale and if they'll bring players like Bozak and Kane at the deadline,it would look more like a collection of players, rather than a team with an identity (i.e. something that was in JR's first year and under MJ - a team destined for an early playoffs exit, like 1st or 2nd round).

I'm not against trades, I just think that Bozak and Kane are the wrong guys and I wouldn't throw assets on them, because I don't think they will push us far in the playoffs.

This is just my opinion, of course I could be wrong. Last year I thought that back to back wins would be highly unlikely too, but they pulled it out. Not without a good portion of a luck tho.

I think it's imperative to not take the pensx perspective where you see team flaws and just blame the GM for the sake of it.

I think JR's mindset of needing new blood in the offseason was 100000% spot on. The execution of it failed for many of reasons. The market was not fitting the players we needed and the teams who LOOKED like they were going to be sellers, ended up hitting home runs and are buyers now. Every single thing that could have gone wrong for the Pens, went wrong. Bones wouldn't take less years, so that was a good move to let go. Cullen went home. Vegas wanted to see what they had and then ended up being great.

And people claim they want JR to make moves, but if nobody is available, he's going to have to waaaay overpay to get the right guy. That would be a disaster and people would bitch again. So it's just bad luck. We aren't dead yet, but why do people always blame when sometimes it's just bad timing and really not all that we could do.