Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Praise be to Nero's Neptune, the Titanic sails at dawn

[Gurglesons]

Phil had more playoff points in less games in either 2 runs than Patches has in his career.

Phil is life. Patches is a patch (a pretty good patch though )

Are you trying to say Montreal has been anywhere near a well constructed team?

Patches has been centered by Desharnais, Danault, and who?

 

[rt]

I could make a good case for it being a good move and a good case for it being bad, so it seems fair TBTH, depending on cap in and out.

Pittsburgh saves 1.28m in cap space for the rest of this season. Both Rieder and Duclair are RFA after the season. The Coyotes would add an additional 550k in real salary for this season.

17/18 (Cap/Salary)
Hagelin (4.00/3.67) Remaining with retention: (1.50/1.38)
Sheary (3.00/3.00) Remaining with paid bonus: (1.50/1.00)
Rieder (2.23/2.45) Remaining: (1.12/1.23)
Duclair (1.20/1.20) Remaining: (0.60/0.60)

 

[Tom Hanks]

Are you trying to say Montreal has been anywhere near a well constructed team?

Patches has been centered by Desharnais, Danault, and who?

I’m trying to say he’s good but don’t compare him to Phil. Phil had a PPG playoff history before joining the pens (also 13 goals in 22 games before joining the Pens)

EDIT: Patches had 1 assist last playoffs (6 games)

 

[pensfan71]

I'm a Yotes fan. I don't like the deal. It seems as though Rieder and the Yotes have reached a point of no return and a trade is inevitable. I think Rick Tocchet would be happy to get a couple of hard workers back. His chief complaint about the Coyotes is that they don't know how to work hard enough on the ice and while preparing for games. That's why the Coyotes traded for Archibald. That's why they claimed Freddie Hamilton.

Well Sheary and Hags do work hard. Hags is just trash overall outside of that

 

[Empoleon8771]

How bad is this?

To PIT:
Anthony Duclair
Tobias Rieder
Erik Kallgren
'18 ARI 3rd

To ARI:
Conor Sheary
Carl Hagelin (25% Retained)
Filip Gustavsson
'18 PIT 2nd

Really bad? Pretty bad? Not that bad?

It certainly isn't bad, I'm just having trouble gauging the value on it because of how many moving pieces there are. I'm not sure if the pick swap is necessary there, either. If you'd take out the pick swap, I'd be fine with that deal. It's just a little weird with the pick swap, because I don't know where the Penguins 2nd is going to be.

My concern with the deal as you have it is that the Penguins are giving up the most valuable player, the most valuable prospect and the most valuable pick in this deal. None of those are by a ridiculous amount, though. Sheary is a little more valuable than Rieder, but not by a huge amount. Gustavsson is more valuable than Kallgren, but goalie prospects don't have that much value anyway and both are crapshoots at this point. The Penguins 2nd could be anywhere from 5 picks to 25 picks above the Coyotes 3rd. Is all of that worth swapping Hagelin with salary retained and Duclair? I'm not sure.

 

[66-30-33]

How bad is this?

To PIT:
Anthony Duclair
Tobias Rieder
Erik Kallgren
'18 ARI 3rd

To ARI:
Conor Sheary
Carl Hagelin (25% Retained)
Filip Gustavsson
'18 PIT 2nd

Really bad? Pretty bad? Not that bad?

Who is Kallgren? and what's the info on him?

 

[66-30-33]

That's a bad trade for us. Gustavsson is a solid prospect, I hang on to him unless a very good prospect or player is offered and he's the guy they want. Hell today, his value could sky rocket even more.

It's not that bad, Gus is still a prospect playing outside NA. But if someone wants to hand over a great prospect then sure.

 

[rt]

Drop the picks.

 

[rt]

Who is Kallgren? and what's the info on him?

Euro goalie taken late in the 2015 draft. Still overseas. Crapshoot.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Drop the picks.

If you'd drop the picks I'd say yes to the deal.

 

[66-30-33]

Euro goalie taken late in the 2015 draft. Still overseas. Crapshoot.

I'd probably do that deal tbh. We need more young guys with speed on the wings if we are getting rid of Sheary and Hagelin. Not sure what their ceiling would be but worth a gamble. Are they both good defensivly?

 

[Ogrezilla]

Are you trying to say Montreal has been anywhere near a well constructed team?

Patches has been centered by Desharnais, Danault, and who?

Offensive stud Tomas Plekanec

 

[Gurglesons]

I’m trying to say he’s good but don’t compare him to Phil. Phil had a PPG playoff history before joining the pens (also 13 goals in 22 games before joining the Pens)

EDIT: Patches had 1 assist last playoffs (6 games)

And I don’t get what your point is? Patches is still a borderline top ten Left winger we could get for a bargain given Bergervin’s history.

 

[Tom Hanks]

And I don’t get what your point is? Patches is still a borderline top ten winger we could get for a bargain given Bergervin’s history.

You were just saying he was basically Kessel. I disagree. If we get him for a fair price sure but don’t overpay for him.

 

[Night Shift]

I don't understand the trade Murray post. Our goaltending tandem is set the next couple years and also cap friendly during this time..we shouldn't be trading either right now.

 

[Riptide]

How bad is this?

To PIT:
Anthony Duclair
Tobias Rieder
Erik Kallgren
'18 ARI 3rd

To ARI:
Conor Sheary
Carl Hagelin (25% Retained)
Filip Gustavsson
'18 PIT 2nd

Really bad? Pretty bad? Not that bad?

Honestly I do not think it's bad at all - if anything, I'd say it's worse for ARI then PIT, as they're getting some quality players and only dropping back a few spots in the draft (15-20 max? - probably less) and getting to dump Hagelin. But then it also depends on how one values Gust. And I'm saying that while not knowing anything on Kallgren, other than that he was a late pick in 2015 and who's value and upside is likely minimal.

For me, I'd see the above as something like this:

Sheary for Duclair and Rieder
Hagelin @3m (~2.7m salary) and Gustavsson + 2nd for Kallgren + 3rd

Value wise, I think we win the top one, and lose the second, and that overall it's fairly equal. Most won't like giving up/moving Gustavsson... personally I'm indifferent to it - as long as it's in the right deal. Not sure this is the right deal to do it (I'd much rather be doing it for a D like OEL (pipe dream), and baring that would rather have another piece in there instead of Gust. But if push came to shove... I'd probably do that deal due to getting TR/AD, freeing up 3m in cap space and getting younger.

 

[Riptide]

The only way to get Jurassic Park back on line is to erase everything Nedry did aka JR this offseason

1) Dumoulin extension. Like the guy at 800k. Kills the team at $4.1m
2) Sheary extension. See above.
3) Ryan Reaves. LOL. What's up Craig Adams?
4) Sheahan. Maybe 4th line LW. Maybe?

The Schultz extension and Murray extension were obvious moves. Letting go albeit not all-stars but intrical pieces in Daley, Cullen, Bones with money going to raises for Dumo hahaha and Sheary haha have been crippling moves for the season. And I'll keep saying it until you get it. Kunitz and Fleury have been dead weight for the past arguably two-five seasons.

Peel back the next layer. Going forward.

5) I love the grit of Hornqvist but if he needs Crosby to produce outside of powerplay dinks I'm not paying you $5m-$6.5m a year. Crosby helped Sheary get $3m a year. He makes whoever he plays with better.

6) Crosby can make Sprong better. Imagine the Crosby effect with Sprong. Now we're talking 30-40 goals a year for Sprong. HELLO. Turn your ******* brain on

7) Hagelin sucks. He sucks. But if you have a speed team he's great and he has a role. I vote more speed and skill.


SOLUTION: You start with Evander Kane for Sheary + 1st. Max offer - 6 years, $45m.

Then you move your worst defenseman per dollar in Brian Dumoulin. I'll use Murray and Hornqvist if I need to to get OEL. That's a slight overpay. Maybe I can get Duclair back as well. And then lock up OEL long term. 8 years, $60m

These moves reduce cap and you get better players. That's called wheeling and dealing.

I hope you're on the east coast (or in Europe) where it's even later then the 3:39pm PST you posted this at... as then it would at least be after 5pm and one wouldn't be able to accuse you of day drinking... Because that's about the only excuse I can see for this...

 

[Nakawick]

Are you trying to say Montreal has been anywhere near a well constructed team?

Patches has been centered by Desharnais, Danault, and who?

Plekanec, Drouin, Chucky, Hudon

 

[pensfan71]

What are people's thoughts on Valentin Zykov?

 

[KIRK]

A question:

Let's say you acquire a 3C and your intent is to play him with Phil.

Let's say you like Sprong with Sid.

What do you do with Hornqvist?

Are you better off playing him with Geno OR moving him and a defenseman to get your 3C and a winger better suited for Geno?

 

[Nakawick]

A question:

Let's say you acquire a 3C and your intent is to play him with Phil.

Let's say you like Sprong with Sid.

What do you do with Hornqvist?

Are you better off playing him with Geno OR moving him and a defenseman to get your 3C and a winger better suited for Geno?

Who plays RW with Geno? Where does Jake and Sheary and Simon play? I would rather move Sheary.

 

[pensfan71]

A question:

Let's say you acquire a 3C and your intent is to play him with Phil.

Let's say you like Sprong with Sid.

What do you do with Hornqvist?

Are you better off playing him with Geno OR moving him and a defenseman to get your 3C and a winger better suited for Geno?

I'd move him only if we were getting Kane on that left side with Geno. Because good lord that would be filthy

 

[pensfan71]

Who plays RW with Geno? Where does Jake and Sheary and Simon play? I would rather move Sheary.

Duclair

Simon-Sid-Sprong
Kane-G-Duclair
Guentzel-3C-Rieder
Kuhn-Sheahan-Reaves

Don't ask me how I got this, just let me live

 

[Tom Hanks]

A question:

Let's say you acquire a 3C and your intent is to play him with Phil.

Let's say you like Sprong with Sid.

What do you do with Hornqvist?

Are you better off playing him with Geno OR moving him and a defenseman to get your 3C and a winger better suited for Geno?

What are your lines? I don’t think we should be moving a guy like Hornqvist. Sprong, Sheary, Simon and Guentzel all top out at 180 pounds.

Phil with Geno is good. Hornqvist on L3 and say Sheary/Guentzel on the left is still a scoring line with a 3C.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A question:

Let's say you acquire a 3C and your intent is to play him with Phil.

Let's say you like Sprong with Sid.

What do you do with Hornqvist?

Are you better off playing him with Geno OR moving him and a defenseman to get your 3C and a winger better suited for Geno?

Use him as trade bait, because until he's re-signed, he shouldn't at all be considered untouchable. Guentzel can replace what Hornqvist does on the powerplay and you can also bring in a LWer for Malkin with a similar skillset to Hornqvist (going to use Maroon for like the millionth time, but it makes sense).

I saw that Blues fans were interested in a Sobotka for Hornqvist swap. I'd be very intrigued with that kind of deal.