Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Monday, February 26

[Riptide]

What are the names yohe lists?

Cullen, Pouliot, Letestu, Grabner, E.Kane, Brassard & Pageau.

A quote re Brassard: "While they think highly of Brassard, they aren't trading their top pick, Daniel Sprong and another player on the NHL roster for Brassard."

 

[Empoleon8771]

Because they need a #2C. We will still be in great shape for a repeat if all we do is get a quality 3C. But there are teams out there that legitimately need a top 6 center. Those teams will be more desperate and willing to offer up more then us.

Honestly, I'm not sure about that. There are teams that probably need him more than the Penguins do, but the Penguins are much more likely to win this year. Would a team go all in on Brassard if they're not going to win in the next 2 years? I don't think so. Need is one thing, but you also have to look at Brassard's contract and question if he'll make a big enough difference where you can justify paying that much for him.

Let's use Carolina as an example. They have a much bigger need for Brassard than the Penguins do, without a doubt. On the other hand, Brassard is a free agent after next year. Are they going to pay a lot for him, when they're not even in a playoff spot and Brassard isn't committed long term? Yeah, they desperately need an offensive top-6 center, but that's a huge gamble to make on a player with that little control.

I did see a reasonable suggestion from the main boards when it came to Brassard. Columbus trades Johnson for a 1st (which they apparently have on the table right now), and then use that 1st and a prospect like Abramov for Brassard. I think that's a reasonable suggestion, and I don't think Columbus would shy away from doing that because they're not giving up a ridiculous amount for Brassard.

Cullen, Pouliot, Letestu, Grabner, E.Kane, Brassard & Pageau.

A quote re Brassard: "While they think highly of Brassard, they aren't trading their top pick, Daniel Sprong and another player on the NHL roster for Brassard."

Change Sprong to Gustavsson and I wonder if they feel the same way.

 

[Riptide]

Someone is going to have to come up with a damn good argument for why Wingels is an upgrade worth trading assets for when we have a guy like Sprong in WBS.

Should be stupidly obvious. These guys do not even remotely play the same type of game. Wingels is in theory/ at his best someone who can play up and down the lineup, PK and adds a little more grit to the mix. In short he gives us a little more of something we do not have a lot of. Is he a better player then Sprong? Defensively? Probably. Offensively? I highly doubt it. But that wouldn't be why he'd be up - he'd be here replacing Kuhnhackl - something even Sprong wouldn't do.

So I'm not sure why one would be outraged that we'd be looking at him or someone like him vs calling up Sprong, considering we'd want him to play a vastly different role then what Sprong would be asked to do.

 

[bigG]

Domi would be an elite move by JR. best bargain on the market.

 

[The Old Master]

Domi would be an elite move by JR. best bargain on the market.

at what price?

 

[Empoleon8771]

I forgot to mention this, I wonder if Rutherford changed his tone from the "Sheahan is our 3C" to what he said last night on sportsnet because a team in discussion with JR about adding a better 3C contacted Rutherford after hearing his comments on Sheahan. I could see that making sense, someone who liked pieces that the Penguins were offering for their center might have gotten concerned that JR was all of a sudden saying "I'm happy with Sheahan as the 3C". That could have caused Rutherford to change his tone, because the other GM was willing to lower his asking price when he heard that JR was happy with Sheahan. It's not like it's such a ridiculous stretch that you couldn't believe it, Sheahan has produced really well recently. It's not like JR was saying "we're happy with Sheahan" as he's in the middle of putting up 2 points in 19 games.

 

[bigG]

at what price?

Better than Kane I bet

 

[66-30-33]

Cullen, Pouliot, Letestu, Grabner, E.Kane, Brassard & Pageau.

A quote re Brassard: "While they think highly of Brassard, they aren't trading their top pick, Daniel Sprong and another player on the NHL roster for Brassard."

*rips bald hair out*

 

[Pens x]

I forgot to mention this, I wonder if Rutherford changed his tone from the "Sheahan is our 3C" to what he said last night on sportsnet because a team in discussion with JR about adding a better 3C contacted Rutherford after hearing his comments on Sheahan. I could see that making sense, someone who liked pieces that the Penguins were offering for their center might have gotten concerned that JR was all of a sudden saying "I'm happy with Sheahan as the 3C". That could have caused Rutherford to change his tone, because the other GM was willing to lower his asking price when he heard that JR was happy with Sheahan. It's not like it's such a ridiculous stretch that you couldn't believe it, Sheahan has produced really well recently. It's not like JR was saying "we're happy with Sheahan" as he's in the middle of putting up 2 points in 19 games.

That is certainly a lot of assumptions and wondering on your part. I think JR simply was saving face by setting the bar low for deadline acquisitions. It’s a win - win for him telling people he’s happy with Sheahan since he won’t be criticized for standing pat, and he would be praised for improving the center position.
It’s a great strategy on the Pens’ part. All of the local media started d-riding Sheahan since JR made the comments and many yinzers fell for it.

 

[KIRK]

That is certainly a lot of assumptions and wondering on your part. I think JR simply was saving face by setting the bar low for deadline acquisitions. It’s a win - win for him telling people he’s happy with Sheahan since he won’t be criticized for standing pat, and he would be praised for improving the center position.
It’s a great strategy on the Pens’ part. All of the local media started d-riding Sheahan since JR made the comments and many yinzers fell for it.

I cannot believe that @Empoleon8771 just forced me to agree with @Pens x.

Grand . . . great . . . thanks a lot.

 

[Rakell67]

Huh? What did any of that have to do with Karlsson and the Sens??

Karlsson from Vegas.

 

[KIRK]

Karlsson from Vegas.

One thing worth noting: JR wasn't going to pony up for a Vegas center this offseason. Eakin was a nasty cap hit. Karlsson would've been a gamble. And Huala would've cost more than a 1st. JR wanted to hold his chips for his Duchene wet dream (and Vegas would've been the fallback if it didn't happen), and he figured Cullen would be back. So, it's not necessarily true that Vegas wouldn't have moved one of the centers around the draft. It's that they weren't moving one for anything less than a bit of an overpayment, and JR wasn't going to offer that anyway. Just saying . . .

 

[Speaking Moistly]

One thing worth noting: JR wasn't going to pony up for a Vegas center this offseason. Eakin was a nasty cap hit. Karlsson would've been a gamble. And Huala would've cost more than a 1st. JR wanted to hold his chips for his Duchene wet dream (and Vegas would've been the fallback if it didn't happen), and he figured Cullen would be back. So, it's not necessarily true that Vegas wouldn't have moved one of the centers around the draft. It's that they weren't moving one for anything less than a bit of an overpayment, and JR wasn't going to offer that anyway. Just saying . . .

*looks at the use of the 2017 1st* a truly wise decision. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I don’t think Karlsson would be having the same season here but jr got fixated on Duchene.

 

[Shaffer]

One thing worth noting: JR wasn't going to pony up for a Vegas center this offseason. Eakin was a nasty cap hit. Karlsson would've been a gamble. And Huala would've cost more than a 1st. JR wanted to hold his chips for his Duchene wet dream (and Vegas would've been the fallback if it didn't happen), and he figured Cullen would be back. So, it's not necessarily true that Vegas wouldn't have moved one of the centers around the draft. It's that they weren't moving one for anything less than a bit of an overpayment, and JR wasn't going to offer that anyway. Just saying . . .

Speculation: Brassard as become JR’s main target and Cullen/Letestu are his fallbacks.

I believe that that’s pretty well known around here though.

 

[KIRK]

*looks at the use of the 2017 1st* a truly wise decision. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that. I don’t think Karlsson would be having the same season here but jr got fixated on Duchene.

Don't disagree. But, Karlsson costs 1M and can play LW too. I think the issue was that he'd have cost like a 1st + Sprong or a comparable chip, and JR has so few that he couldn't part with one and still be a bidder for Duchene. I get it. I was only questioning the idea that there wasn't a deal to be made there because GMGM wouldn't consider moving a center, period.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Speculation: Brassard as become JR’s main target and Cullen/Letestu are his fallbacks.

I believe that that’s pretty well known around here though.

With JR he might have a secret fantasy or getting Duchene still.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Don't disagree. But, Karlsson costs 1M and can play LW too. I think the issue was that he'd have cost like a 1st + Sprong or a comparable chip, and JR has so few that he couldn't part with one and still be a bidder for Duchene. I get it. I was only questioning the idea that there wasn't a deal to be made there because GMGM wouldn't consider moving a center, period.

Like I said, hindsight and in a different universe Vegas flounders so Karlsson is cheap in November. He still should have gotten over Duchene earlier.

 

[Shaffer]

With JR he might have a secret fantasy or getting Duchene still.

With what OTT would want? No thanks ...

EDIT: But I could see JR still being interested in Duchene.

 

[Rakell67]

One thing worth noting: JR wasn't going to pony up for a Vegas center this offseason. Eakin was a nasty cap hit. Karlsson would've been a gamble. And Huala would've cost more than a 1st. JR wanted to hold his chips for his Duchene wet dream (and Vegas would've been the fallback if it didn't happen), and he figured Cullen would be back. So, it's not necessarily true that Vegas wouldn't have moved one of the centers around the draft. It's that they weren't moving one for anything less than a bit of an overpayment, and JR wasn't going to offer that anyway. Just saying . . .

Someone stated that we should have gotten Karlsson from Vegas before he blew up and I joked we should have gotten MacKinnon before he blew up. Someone said Mackinnon wasn’t available unless we overpaid. I said the same can be said for Karlsson. Someone thought I was talking about Karlsson from OTT. I was merely stating Karlsson wasn’t available since Vegas stated they didn’t want to move any of their forwards.

 

[KIRK]

Someone stated that we should have gotten Karlsson from Vegas before he blew up and I joked we should have gotten MacKinnon before he blew up. Someone said Mackinnon wasn’t available unless we overpaid. I said the same can be said for Karlsson. Someone thought I was talking about Karlsson from OTT. I was merely stating Karlsson wasn’t available since Vegas stated they didn’t want to move any of their forwards.

And I was merely stating that wasn't EXACTLY correct. Karlsson could've been had for a 1st and Sprong this summer, I suspect (in other words, GMGM would've considered a bit of an overpayment). JR wasn't paying that price for a Vegas center then because he wanted to hold his Sprong (or comparable) chip for his run at Duchene.

 

[888 98 twins]

Premature knee-jerk discussion idea of the night: Can ZAR be the long-term LW opposite Phil Kessel? Can that start this year?

 

[Rakell67]

And I was merely stating that wasn't EXACTLY correct. Karlsson could've been had for a 1st and Sprong this summer, I suspect (in other words, GMGM would've considered a bit of an overpayment). JR wasn't paying that price for a Vegas center then because he wanted to hold his Sprong (or comparable) chip for his run at Duchene.

Anyone can be had if you overpay. The point is to not overpay. I wanted Karlsson this summer when it was speculated Vegas would deal a center having already signed Shipayov? (Wanted an all Swede line Hagelin Karlsson Hornqvist). But I had no idea he would explode like he did. And except for Vegas Mgmt., no one knows for sure if Vegas would have done that deal. The fact remains that their GM stated he wasn’t trading any of his forwards and wanted to see what they had.

 

[KIRK]

Anyone can be had if you overpay. The point is to not overpay. I wanted Karlsson this summer when it was speculated Vegas would deal a center having already signed Shipayov? (Wanted an all Swede line Hagelin Karlsson Hornqvist). But I had no idea he would explode like he did. And except for Vegas Mgmt., no one knows for sure if Vegas would have done that deal. The fact remains that their GM stated he wasn’t trading any if his forwards and wanted to see what they had.

A 1st and Sprong over the summer? Maybe, maybe not. BUT, JR wasn't going to pay it, because he needed Sprong for his Duchene dream and figured he could pluck a C from Vegas later if it didn't pan out. And, this board would've lost its collective **** if JR had traded a 1st and Sprong for Karlsson this summer.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Good news is JR doesn't have to spend out his *** to "save this season" if you will. Team is piling up points and has a 96-98% chance of making the PO's now.
A simple quality 2-way C will be it if the prices are too high.
I still think he'd like to get Kane for a run tho if at all possible.
If Bott's decides JR's getting him, i expect Sheary to be dealt.
And i think the highest piece that goes in that deal will be the probably late(r) 1st.

Could be that he moves Sheary regardless and can sit in his war room with bigger/more names on the board.
If you want to open things up to get the best roster possible for this run, i see the thought process behind that.

 

[Rakell67]

A 1st and Sprong over the summer? Maybe, maybe not. BUT, JR wasn't going to pay it, because he needed Sprong for his Duchene dream and figured he could pluck a C from Vegas later if it didn't pan out. And, this board would've lost its collective **** if JR had traded a 1st and Sprong for Karlsson this summer.

I agree.