Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Looking For Something Easy to Catch

[Pancakes]

It is weird to see us being unable to score goals. Defensive woes and sloppiness I would have expected, but not a lack of offense too.

 

[Nakawick]

If both Hagelin and Sheary are traded, it is likely that we would get an upgrade at LW coming back and Sprong gets a chance at RW and Rust moves to LW.

Centers: Sid, Geno, Trade, Sheahan, Rowney, McKegg
Left Wings: Jake, Trade, Rust, Kuhnhackl, WBS
Right Wings: Kessel, Hornqvist, Sprong, Reaves, Archibald, WBS

Rowney and McKegg are also able to play on wing if/when needed.

 

[Ryder71]

If both Hagelin and Sheary are traded, it is likely that we would get an upgrade at LW coming back and Sprong gets a chance at RW and Rust moves to LW.

Centers: Sid, Geno, Trade, Sheahan, Rowney, McKegg
Left Wings: Jake, Trade, Rust, Kuhnhackl, WBS
Right Wings: Kessel, Hornqvist, Sprong, Reaves, Archibald, WBS

Rowney and McKegg are also able to play on wing if/when needed.

I don't think we can trade both Sheary and Hagelin considering salaries and gutting our LW. Rust and Hagelin would make more sense for us and to a potential trade partner IMO. I'm not really Keen on Rust playing the left side permanently.

Why would we trade to get a LW when we already have two pretty good guys in the fold? A center is our most pressing need, and that'll likely eat up most of the assets we'd be sending.

 

[PensandCaps]

Why are we trading Sheary? Our weakness is LW.

 

[canadianguy77]

Any guys who play like a prime Kunitz available? Crosby thrives when he plays with someone who has a decent hockey IQ, holds his own when it comes to board battles, and has decent acceleration.

 

[Nakawick]

Why are we trading Sheary? Our weakness is LW.

He might be needed to get a center.

 

[Riptide]

If we're trading Sprong I'd much rather have Drouin.

Why would Montreal move Drouin? I mean I'd rather have him too with that contract... but given his age, I do not see the incentive for them to make a move like that.

 

[Shaffer]

I’d trade Sprong+Hagelin+1st for Patches everyday of the week and twice on Sunday. Just resign Hornqvist, too.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Any guys who play like a prime Kunitz available? Crosby thrives when he plays with someone who has a decent hockey IQ, holds his own when it comes to board battles, and has decent acceleration.

I don't think the Penguins need a prime Kunitz for Crosby's line, they need a prime Kunitz for Malkin's line IMO. Or maybe they need 2 prime Kunitzes

The Penguins shouldn't trade Sheary for a center, Sheahan hasn't done poorly enough as the 3C to justify trading someone as productive as Sheary for a 3C. If you want a 3C, you trade someone like Hagelin or Cole or you just trade draft picks and futures.

 

[Nakawick]

I don't think Hagelin or Cole is fetching us a very good center.

 

[Empoleon8771]

This team should be looking to make 2 sets of roster/lineup moves for now:

-Trade for a better 4th line center, whether it be by adding a better 3C and bumping Sheahan down or just adding a great 4C. Someone like Richardson fits this very well for a 4C role. I've been happy enough with Sheahan as the 3C, he's brought everything you want out of a 3C minus goal scoring so far in Pittsburgh. It's still early, but I'm encouraged.
-Call up young players. This team has become horribly stale on the roster, way too many players on 1-way deals with locked in roster spots. They need to get back to what got them their 2015-2016 cup win: speed, tenacity and work ethic. This team does not have this at all. Waive all of Archibald, Kuhnhackl, McKegg and Rowney to start. If you lose any of them, it's not a big deal. Realistically, you probably won't lose more than 1 of those guys (and I'm not sure if you'd even lose 1), so you can send them to WBS so they start working harder for roster spots. Waiving them gives you 4 free spots to recall players from WBS. You can waive those 4, send down Kuhnhackl, Archibald and McKegg and recall DiPauli, ZAR and Sprong for example. That doesn't mean Kuhnhackl, Archibald and McKegg are in WBS forever, they're just there until they force their way back on to the NHL roster.
-Scratch underperforming players. You saw it start with Cole today. A ton of players can fit into this category. Rust, Reaves and Hagelin are 3 that immediately jump to my mind as healthy scratch candidates.

If you do this, you'll end up with something like this at forward for example:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel
Hagelin-Richardson-Rust
Reaves-Rowney

If it's still not working at that point, then you start dangling someone like Hornqvist or Sheary to trade. You don't jump to that point this early.

I don't think Hagelin or Cole is fetching us a very good center.

The Penguins don't need a very good center, they need either another Sheahan or a great 4th line center. They need a Richardson level player, that won't be expensive to acquire.

 

[Nakawick]

The Penguins don't need a very good center, they need either another Sheahan or a great 4th line center. They need a Richardson level player, that won't be expensive to acquire.

I will emphatically disagree with bringing in another mediocre 4th line center. I would bet my house that doesn't happen.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I will emphatically disagree with bringing in another mediocre 4th line center. I would bet my house that doesn't happen.

How is Richardson a mediocre 4th line center? He's been a 30 point player per 82 games for 5 years at this point. Yeah, he's only on pace for 19 points this year, but he was on pace for 27 points per 82 games in the previous 8 seasons combined.

I've made this comment a couple times: this board's expectations for centers are completely out of wack. This proves it again when Richardson is a mediocre 4th line center. Richardson is about as good of a 4th line center as you're ever going to find, he's a 3C on a bad team (I'm using that as a player ability evaluation, like Sheahan is a 3C on a mediocre team and Bonino is a 3C on a great team). The Penguins don't need a Tyler Bozak, they have a 3C already. They need a guy not named McKegg as the 4C and for the top-6 to figure it's **** out at ES. The 3rd line is probably the only line that has produced around what it should produce at ES on the year so far.

 

[Nakawick]

We don't need a 4th line center. We have 3 now.

 

[Ryder71]

I will emphatically disagree with bringing in another mediocre 4th line center. I would bet my house that doesn't happen.

Yep! I believe he'll aim much higher if he can find a dance partner that is. If EDM keeps struggling maybe they'll look to do something.

 

[Empoleon8771]

We don't need a 4th line center. We have 3 now.

No they don't. They have a below average 3rd line center in Sheahan, a guy who should be a 13/14th forward in Rowney and an AHLer in McKegg. They don't have 3 4Cs, they have a 3C and 2 guys who shouldn't be everyday players. If the Penguins bring in a better 3C to bump Sheahan to the 4th line, that's fine. It's just that it's not the only possible solution there, because Sheahan has been fine in the 3C role. You can just bring in a top of the line 4C, someone like Richardson, and keep Sheahan as the 3C and you'd be fine.

 

[Shaffer]

This team should be looking to make 2 sets of roster/lineup moves for now:

-Trade for a better 4th line center, whether it be by adding a better 3C and bumping Sheahan down or just adding a great 4C. Someone like Richardson fits this very well for a 4C role. I've been happy enough with Sheahan as the 3C, he's brought everything you want out of a 3C minus goal scoring so far in Pittsburgh. It's still early, but I'm encouraged.
-Call up young players. This team has become horribly stale on the roster, way too many players on 1-way deals with locked in roster spots. They need to get back to what got them their 2015-2016 cup win: speed, tenacity and work ethic. This team does not have this at all. Waive all of Archibald, Kuhnhackl, McKegg and Rowney to start. If you lose any of them, it's not a big deal. Realistically, you probably won't lose more than 1 of those guys (and I'm not sure if you'd even lose 1), so you can send them to WBS so they start working harder for roster spots. Waiving them gives you 4 free spots to recall players from WBS. You can waive those 4, send down Kuhnhackl, Archibald and McKegg and recall DiPauli, ZAR and Sprong for example. That doesn't mean Kuhnhackl, Archibald and McKegg are in WBS forever, they're just there until they force their way back on to the NHL roster.
-Scratch underperforming players. You saw it start with Cole today. A ton of players can fit into this category. Rust, Reaves and Hagelin are 3 that immediately jump to my mind as healthy scratch candidates.

If you do this, you'll end up with something like this at forward for example:

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Guentzel-Malkin-Sprong
ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel
Hagelin-Richardson-Rust
Reaves-Rowney

If it's still not working at that point, then you start dangling someone like Hornqvist or Sheary to trade. You don't jump to that point this early.



The Penguins don't need a very good center, they need either another Sheahan or a great 4th line center. They need a Richardson level player, that won't be expensive to acquire.

I agree on everything you said except that we need another Sheahan. We need an offensive minded 3C, a Ryan Spooner type. Hagelin+2nd for Spooner.

Guentzel-Crosby-Sprong
ZAR-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary-Spooner-Hornqvist
Di Pauli-Sheahan-Rust

 

[Empoleon8771]

I agree on everything you said except that we need another Sheahan. We need an offensive minded 3C, a Ryan Spooner type. Hagelin+2nd for Spooner.

It depends on what kind of center the Penguins are targeting. A 3C to bump Sheahan to the 4th line? Then yeah, I'd rather get someone better offensively. A 4th line center while Sheahan is the 3C? I'd rather bring in an energy guy or a defensive guy who's capable of putting up points. You're not going to get someone like Cullen, who was both offensively and defensively gifted along with being an energy player, but I think you can get a defensively gifted energy player who can put up a good amount of points.

 

[Nakawick]

-Trade for a better 4th line center, whether it be by adding a better 3C and bumping Sheahan down or just adding a great 4C. Someone like Richardson fits this very well for a 4C role. I've been happy enough with Sheahan as the 3C, he's brought everything you want out of a 3C minus goal scoring so far in Pittsburgh. It's still early, but I'm encouraged.

The Penguins don't need a very good center, they need either another Sheahan or a great 4th line center. They need a Richardson level player, that won't be expensive to acquire.

No they don't. They have a below average 3rd line center in Sheahan, a guy who should be a 13/14th forward in Rowney and an AHLer in McKegg. They don't have 3 4Cs, they have a 3C and 2 guys who shouldn't be everyday players. If the Penguins bring in a better 3C to bump Sheahan to the 4th line, that's fine. It's just that it's not the only possible solution there, because Sheahan has been fine in the 3C role. You can just bring in a top of the line 4C, someone like Richardson, and keep Sheahan as the 3C and you'd be fine.

I don't even know what to say anymore.

 

[Shaffer]

It depends on what kind of center the Penguins are targeting. A 3C to bump Sheahan to the 4th line? Then yeah, I'd rather get someone better offensively. A 4th line center while Sheahan is the 3C? I'd rather bring in an energy guy or a defensive guy who's capable of putting up points. You're not going to get someone like Cullen, who was both offensively and defensively gifted along with being an energy player, but I think you can get a defensively gifted energy player who can put up a good amount of points.

Sure, but that still leaves Sheahan at 3C. He’s a decent 3C, but not who we should want to have come April.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't even know what to say anymore.

Okay so I'll ask this, based on what Sheahan has done so far in Pittsburgh, why don't you think he hasn't performed at a 3C level? He's been completely fine as a 3C, he's a lower end 3C that isn't far off from someone like Sutter. He has brought everything you want from a 3C so far outside of goal scoring so far in Pittsburgh. How is that incorrect?

Sure, but that still leaves Sheahan at 3C. He’s a decent 3C, but not who we should want to have come April.

Want and need are 2 different things, not that you were saying otherwise. I think it's fine to want a better 3C. To say the Penguins need one? That's not really accurate.

 

[Nakawick]

How is Sheahan's face off percentage and penalty killing? Does he shadow top lines or is he a good lock down guy? Is he fast? physical? A shot blocking machine? Does he show any desperation? Any Leadership? What does he do that I am missing.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How is Sheahan's face off percentage and penalty killing?

Faceoff percentage has been excellent, PKing has been solid. He's over 55% on faceoffs.

Does he shadow top lines or is he a good lock down guy?

He has a defensive zone start% of 65% against pretty high end competition. He also hasn't gotten scored on much and has some great defensive advanced stats (like corsi against).

Is he fast? physical?

He's a pretty good skater, not a burner but he gets around nicely. Better skater than Bonino IMO. He doesn't throw around his body too much, but he has gotten into the dirty areas a good amount. He's physical the same way Crosby is physical, he gets engaged in the dirty areas and plays the cycle game, but he's not throwing his weight around.

A shot blocking machine?

Not a requirement of a 3C.

Does he show any desperation? Any Leadership?

We have no way of knowing about leadership since we're not in the locker room. I hate when people try to evaluate the mental or social aspects of players. No one here has any idea about that, so to even bring it up is flawed.

What does he do that I am missing.

Well a lot, because of the questions you're asking. The only thing he doesn't do at a 3C level is scoring goals. Here's what he has done so far:

1. Showed he can play extremely heavy defensive minutes, seeing how he starts 65% of his shifts in the Dzone. That's higher than what Bonino did here.
2. Showed he can have solid possession stats in those heavy defensive minutes. For someone with Sheahan's assignments, his possession stats are really good. Having a CF%REL of close to 0 and a positive CF% when you're getting those Dzone assignments is legitimately impressive. CF%Rel is just how your CF% compares to the rest of your team, but it doesn't take into account zone starts or any other context with that. It is legitimately impressive that his CF%Rel is at 0, which means his CF% is just as good as the average on the Penguins, because of the difficult minutes he's getting.
3. He has shown good playmaking abilities for a 3C. He's on pace for 22 assists per 82 games so far in Pittsburgh from the 3C spot, that's a solid number and all were either primary assists or secondary assists where he played a huge role in the play.
4. He has shown he's excellent on faceoffs and can kill penalties well.

He's getting hammered with DZone minutes and performing very well in that role. Yeah, I wish he would score a couple more goals. That's really my only complaint when it comes to him. Playmaking, defensive play, faceoffs, possession stats, minutes played, zone starts...they're all clearly 3C caliber.

If Sheahan manages to rediscover his goal scoring game and he continues to do what he has done in Pittsburgh, he is flat out indisputably a 3rd line center. Probably a good one, too. Not one that can reliably step up into the 2C spot, but a good 3rd line center. That's just a huge if, and until he does that, he's a mediocre 3C at best. I don't care how well you do everything else, you're not going to be higher than a below average 3C if you can't score goals.

 

[Nakawick]

Sheahan sounds like decent low offensive upside 4th line center. Corsi for doesn't mean shit if the puck doesn't go in the net. We don't need another Sheahan and his 3 goals in 2 years, at least 1 without a goalie. Not sold on his PK abilities however. He doesn't make his teammates better.

 

[Empoleon8771]

So you just ignored everything I said? Okay.

I can provide all of the stats to show Sheahan is a 3C in all parts of his game minus goal scoring, but if you've already decided he's not an no amount of evidence is going to change your mind, there's really nothing I can do. If he was scoring goals at a 3C level, the Penguins probably wouldn't have him and another team would have a probably good 3C.