Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

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JackFr

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Jun 18, 2010
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I'm totally open to the notion that Maatta isn't a perfect fit for the way we play. I'm saying that

1. He's a top four defenseman, most likely a #3
2. He is paid fairly for what he ptovides
3. If we trade him it needs to be for someone as good or better
4. Brodin (for instance) is not as good or better.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,534
22,049
Pittsburgh
I'm totally open to the notion that Maatta isn't a perfect fit for the way we play. I'm saying that

1. He's a top four defenseman, most likely a #3
2. He is paid fairly for what he ptovides
3. If we trade him it needs to be for someone as good or better
4. Brodin (for instance) is not as good or better.
I agree with three of those things, but not 4.
 
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bambamcam4ever

107 and counting
Feb 16, 2012
14,302
6,344
Pretty much exactly how I feel, in a more concise, polite way of saying it I suppose. :laugh:

We need defensemen who can skate. I don't care if Maatta's IQ is high, or he's not awful in transition, he's awful at skating and that's huge.
Yep, I don't care about any other hockey-related skills, I want more defensemen like this:

cut.png
 

bambamcam4ever

107 and counting
Feb 16, 2012
14,302
6,344
Well here's the thing, Maatta is often caught out of position in the neutral zone and in his own end, a defenseman with a fantastic IQ and a lack of foot speed would really rely on his positioning rather than his speed to close the gap if he did get caught, or rather, just be in a safe spot and allow his partner to take more of the risks, but instead, he plays like he has Letang's speed, which he definitely does not.

Olli is just not good at that anticipation often enough, there are far too many times I am watching him and specifically him and wondering what the **** that kid is thinking, there was that one game that really just hit it home for me where the guy literally skated into 3 opposing players, trapped himself, and the Pens lost that game I believe on a turn over. Like that sort of ****, you expect from a Ruhwedel or a Hunwick, guys that are insanely limited. But Olli? I expect more out of the kid.

It's not even fair to call him a kid anymore, he's been in the league long enough where he should have this sorted out by now. Olli is just not a good fit, if JR is all about finding a better team and balance, if he can't address that he's one massive piece that just doesn't fit on that blueline, he's just blowing smoke up his own ass.
If you are watching Maatta and constantly questioning his decision-making and anticipation, some self-evaluation is probably in order.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
91,483
73,651
San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
I'm totally open to the notion that Maatta isn't a perfect fit for the way we play. I'm saying that

1. He's a top four defenseman, most likely a #3
2. He is paid fairly for what he ptovides
3. If we trade him it needs to be for someone as good or better
4. Brodin (for instance) is not as good or better.

Brodin can skate. Daley is a more raw D, but he was dominant here.

Can you say Maatta has ever been dominant? He was a # 3 once here.

We won a cup, but I’m not building our D after that squad. And honesty when our team has looked dominant Maatta has been on the bottom pairing.
 

Brandinho

deng xiaoping gang
Aug 28, 2005
14,804
1,405
República de Cuba
For me, Maatta is kind of like a male model with a recessed chin. He'll look great from certain angles and there are some things he can do to minimize its impact, but he's always going to look bad in profile. Maatta's skating is and always will be his Achilles' heel and it's made even worse by the system that he plays in. He's not bad, obviously, but he'd certainly be the guy I'd look to move.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,612
17,953
I agree with three of those things, but not 4.

Yah. Brodin and Maatta are pretty even.


I just don't get how people can complain about Maatta's contract or call him overpaid when you have awful Dmen like Kris Russel and Brendan Smith making more.

Maatta is underpaid. If he were to hit the open market, he is getting around 5-6 million.
 
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Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,033
32,202
I really don’t want to trade Rust and I hope if JR is doing so it’s for a much better player only.....Rust does a lot of things well, especially when we need them done, and he’ll be missed. I doubt we’ll find anyone who brings both his speed and defensive skills and more offense too....

If they can’t sign him longer term, they should give him a QO and ask for two years in arbitration...I doubt he gets more than $3 mil per year, and I think they could afford that if they are willing to dump Sheary for a pick and/or Hunwick, or bury him in the minors....
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
If you are watching Maatta and constantly questioning his decision-making and anticipation, some self-evaluation is probably in order.
I watched some of his games at random times during the season, some during his best period, some during his more meh periods and some during his worst periods.

Also, it's not hard to when you have the ability to watch games whenever you want even when it's been completed and you're able to re-watch if you've missed the game and you've read the boards to see who everyone is complaining about or celebrating to see why that is, for yourself.

Imagine that.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
Sheary maybe...

You might be underselling Sheary here, if the Flames are moving him, I'd do it for Blueger and a 3rd perhaps, but that would be around what we're looking at. Not some NHL proven player for a dude with like not even a dozen games under his belt where he's impressed a ton (he hasn't, he's looked decent for a bit of those games though, enough to say hmm...).
 

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,033
32,202
Is performance enhancing crack on the banned substance list? I'm asking for a Finnish friend of mine.

I believe the last thing Rob Ford did was to get Toronto to change the regs to get crack off the list of banned substances but I’m not sure...you might want to ask Mike Richards....
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
I believe the last thing Rob Ford did was to get Toronto to change the regs to get crack off the list of banned substances but I’m not sure...you might want to ask Mike Richards....
That reminds me, what's Mike Ribeiro up to these days?


Edit: Oh man, just googled him, I kind of feel bad for the guy. He's battling through severe alcoholism, thinks he's fine, won't get help anymore, people forget that addiction is also quite the disease.
Ex-Hab Mike Ribeiro arrested for trespassing in Miami Beach
 

DesertedPenguin

Registered User
Mar 11, 2007
6,773
7,516
Olli Maatta is 23.

By comparison, Brian Dumoulin is 26 and just had his best season ever. Justin Schultz resurrected his career in 2016-17 at age 26.

Even Drew Doughty just set a career high in points at age 28.

Thinking Olli Maatta is a finished product at age 23 is incredibly moronic. It's even worse when you realize Maatta just played a full season for the first time since he was a rookie.
 

billybudd

Registered User
Feb 1, 2012
22,049
2,249
Hypothetically (clearly), what would people think of a Letang and Kessel for Toffoli and Doughty deal?

Depends on Doughty's money. He has expressed a motivation to be the highest paid D in the NHL along with Karlsson (he mentioned something about their agents conferring to make sure they're paid about the same). That's a pretty broad pay range.

Suppose he edges Subban by $500k per. I'd be interested.

But suppose he wants $500k per less than McDavid. There's no way we can do that.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
Olli Maatta is 23.

By comparison, Brian Dumoulin is 26 and just had his best season ever. Justin Schultz resurrected his career in 2016-17 at age 26.

Even Drew Doughty just set a career high in points at age 28.

Thinking Olli Maatta is a finished product at age 23 is incredibly moronic. It's even worse when you realize Maatta just played a full season for the first time since he was a rookie.
Hey, maybe you're right, but I can't remember a single player who improved their skating to the degree Maatta needs to in order to be the guy we need him to be. This isn't "get a little quicker", this is "completely relearn how to skate and develop an explosiveness and quickness that just simply doesn't exist".

Hope he proves me wrong, but I'd be absolutely shocked if he was able to do it.
 

Ryder71

Registered User
Nov 24, 2017
22,831
11,036
Olli Maatta is 23.

By comparison, Brian Dumoulin is 26 and just had his best season ever. Justin Schultz resurrected his career in 2016-17 at age 26.

Even Drew Doughty just set a career high in points at age 28.

Thinking Olli Maatta is a finished product at age 23 is incredibly moronic. It's even worse when you realize Maatta just played a full season for the first time since he was a rookie.
Maatta in all probability will get better, and honestly he's a very solid and capable defensemen in all areas but one, SKATING! And that's one area in which he isn't likely to improve upon much. His overall talent, ability and hockey IQ is very good, but his poor skating (for what this team needs anyhow) IMO makes him expendable.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
42,447
I agree with three of those things, but not 4.
Yeah, if by some miracle the Wild wanted Maatta over Brodin, JR should take that and run and be happy with the fact that he found a much better fit for a similar type player.

No one is saying Maatta sucks, we're saying given his lack of speed, the rest of his game doesn't make up for it to be on this roster when we're supposed to see JR make improvements. To not address the fact that Olli isn't a good fit, would be ignoring the whole "we need to improve!" narrative.

Olli Maatta is 23.

By comparison, Brian Dumoulin is 26 and just had his best season ever. Justin Schultz resurrected his career in 2016-17 at age 26.

Even Drew Doughty just set a career high in points at age 28.

Thinking Olli Maatta is a finished product at age 23 is incredibly moronic. It's even worse when you realize Maatta just played a full season for the first time since he was a rookie.

Show me how many players get faster after being in the league for 5-6 seasons.

Olli's problem isn't that he's terrible, it's that he's slow on a team that pushes a faster tempo game where he lags behind far more than anyone would like.

Dumoulin was always billed as a stay at home defender that is a big man that can skate, not overly aggressive but can be used in all situations and he's been that and more, but his strengths back then just got better, that's the thing.

Olli's strength was never his skating but the team didn't also think the coach would get fired, then next one too and then the current one would push a speed first mentality, Olli at the time, was a good pick, but as the league progressed, his speed didn't.

That's the issue. THE BIGGEST issue with his game, his foot speed just has not gotten any better.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,518
46,235
Olli Maatta is 23.

By comparison, Brian Dumoulin is 26 and just had his best season ever. Justin Schultz resurrected his career in 2016-17 at age 26.

Even Drew Doughty just set a career high in points at age 28.

Thinking Olli Maatta is a finished product at age 23 is incredibly moronic. It's even worse when you realize Maatta just played a full season for the first time since he was a rookie.

This would be a solid argument if the argument was about something that a player can 100% definitely improve upon with age/experience. Maatta's slow as hell. That's his issue, and it's likely not going to get better just because he ages.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,290
25,206
This would be a solid argument if the argument was about something that a player can 100% definitely improve upon with age/experience. Maatta's slow as hell. That's his issue, and it's likely not going to get better just because he ages.

That's only if the argument is that the only thing Maatta can improve is his speed and that's the only thing that matters to us.

Which I'm beginning to suspect is the argument tbf. But even in our system, skating isn't the be all and end all. Which is why the org aren't very interested in moving him. Like, anyone sat down and thought "What's the reason the org doesn't want to move the worst skater in a high skating system" and gone looking for answers? Because there's tons.

If we can somehow parlay him into Klefbom or Brodie, then yeah, that'd be cool. But judging from their fans and the rumours, they're not interested in trading D for D. They'll likely be used for F upgrades. Maybe you trade Kessel for them, then trade Maatta (preferably for something higher than a 1st and prospect)... but most people don't want to trade Kessel. Well, he's the only forward we've got that'll get you the likes of those upgrades. Which should go to show just how difficult it is to find a dman as good as Maatta for 4m.
 
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