Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

[66-30-33]

After next season when the big 2 are UFAs...

Dumo-Karlsson
Klefbom-???
Cole-Oleksiak

Or change Karlsson with Doughty. Maatta, Letang, Schultz all gone. Letang to Oilers, Maatta to Arizona for like Domi or something, Schultz to ??? All we would need is a 2nd pair RD.

 

[Peat]

After next season when the big 2 are UFAs...

Dumo-Karlsson
Klefbom-???
Cole-Oleksiak

Or change Karlsson with Doughty. Maatta, Letang, Schultz all gone. Letang to Oilers, Maatta to Arizona for like Domi or something, Schultz to ??? All we would need is a 2nd pair RD.

And the salary cap to go up by astronomic amounts to pay for Karlsson and Cole. I'm dubious enough about fitting in Karlsson and Doughty - the idea of getting Cole back for the 3rd line on his likely next season cap hit is super unrealistic.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Hague would have been a great fit.

The next Parayko..even better.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't want to trade Maatta because he's a bad fit or he's a bad skater, I think trading Maatta makes sense because the Penguins need a better defensemen than him and they can't justify spending $9.6 million on 2 defensemen who can't anchor the 2nd pair. I don't think it's a poor fit issue, it's him not being good enough for what the Penguins need out of their 2nd pair D.

What's the difference? He's a bad fit with Schultz. You're saying the same thing.

 

[Peat]

Something that just occurred to me - if karlsson and doughty both move this summer, getting fair value for letang is going to be that bit much more difficult.

 

[Gurglesons]

What's the difference? He's a bad fit with Schultz. You're saying the same thing.

Nah, bruh. He’s not a bad fit, he just can’t carry a 2nd pairing and isn’t good enough to play with Schultz.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What's the difference? He's a bad fit with Schultz. You're saying the same thing.

Whenever I see people talking about "fit", I think of play style and how they complement the team or their linemates/partners. I don't think it's a stylistic problem, Maatta just isn't good enough. I wouldn't say a 3rd line player doesn't "fit" next to Crosby, I'd just say he's not good enough.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Something that just occurred to me - if karlsson and doughty both move this summer, getting fair value for letang is going to be that bit much more difficult.

#1RHD are always coveted. Letang is signed 4 more years after this on a good cap hit.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Oddly enough, Schultz's advanced stats are close to being the same regardless of whether he's with Maatta or not. Maatta's are all better away from Schultz (and notably better than Schultz's), except for everything to do with goals - GF%, HDGF%, PDO. Not sure how much of that is pace and how much of that is luck.

My biggest problem with Maatta is it looks like if he takes too many minutes, his skating dramatically drops.

That's a good point. Maatta doesn't seem capable of playing 20+ minutes a night. The more he plays, the more he looks like he's skating in quicksand.

Which is a big issue if he's going to be one of our four Top-4 defensemen, as you want all four guys capable of playing 20+ minutes a night.

 

[Peat]

#1RHD are always coveted. Letang is signed 4 more years after this on a good cap hit.

But I was under the impression that's too long and too much for someone who's no longer a proper #1 dman


Sarcasm aside, you're right to a point. But only to a point. They're not coveted to the point of being guaranteed good sales, Letang wasn't able to get Rutherford what he wanted this season. If you've got three moving all at once - of which Letang is arguably the worst - it is gonna make the market worse.

And once you've subtracted all the teams that don't need one, all the teams that are in true rebuild mode, and all the teams so close to the cap they can't afford one... how many teams are left?

Not saying it's impossible - far from it - but as easy as some people seem to think?

 

[Gurglesons]

But I was under the impression that's too long and too much for someone who's no longer a proper #1 dman


Sarcasm aside, you're right to a point. But only to a point. They're not coveted to the point of being guaranteed good sales, Letang wasn't able to get Rutherford what he wanted this season. If you've got three moving all at once - of which Letang is arguably the worst - it is gonna make the market worse.

And once you've subtracted all the teams that don't need one, all the teams that are in true rebuild mode, and all the teams so close to the cap they can't afford one... how many teams are left?

Not saying it's impossible - far from it - but as easy as some people seem to think?

Every team wants defensemen like Letang.

Look at the packages Hamonic and McDonagh got.

 

[Tom Hanks]

But I was under the impression that's too long and too much for someone who's no longer a proper #1 dman


Sarcasm aside, you're right to a point. But only to a point. They're not coveted to the point of being guaranteed good sales, Letang wasn't able to get Rutherford what he wanted this season. If you've got three moving all at once - of which Letang is arguably the worst - it is gonna make the market worse.

And once you've subtracted all the teams that don't need one, all the teams that are in true rebuild mode, and all the teams so close to the cap they can't afford one... how many teams are left?

Not saying it's impossible - far from it - but as easy as some people seem to think?

It’s much harder to do in season especially when Letang has just come back from injury. Reports said teams had no doubt over his abilities but it was his health that was a concern. Playing a full season and still having the stats he does will put a lot of those concerns at ease. With the cap increase and salary obviously coming back all teams that are interested can make it happen.

Karlsson and Doughty may or may not be traded but they only have 1 year left and aren’t obligated to sign an extension if it’s to a team that’s not their preference.

If JR truely wants to trade Letang, it’ll happen. Whether he wants to and see how a pre season changes things (which it would but to what degree) or will just throw out the name and see what’s on offer.

 

[Peat]

It’s much harder to do in season especially when Letang has just come back from injury. Reports said teams had no doubt over his abilities but it was his health that was a concern. Playing a full season and still having the stats he does will put a lot of those concerns at ease. With the cap increase and salary obviously coming back all teams that are interested can make it happen.

Karlsson and Doughty may or may not be traded but they only have 1 year left and aren’t obligated to sign an extension if it’s to a team that’s not their preference.

If JR truely wants to trade Letang, it’ll happen. Whether he wants to and see how a pre season changes things (which it would but to what degree) or will just throw out the name and see what’s on offer.

C'mon now. Either the market matters - i.e. in season, out of season, amount of possible options available - or it doesn't. I never said that both getting traded would make it impossible - or that both would get traded. Just a potential factor to consider/worry if things went a certain way.

And sure, if Rutherford is hellbent on trading Letang, it'll happen. But if he's interested in the idea but wants a certain return?

Given how long it took Rutherford to find his 3C, and how long it took Sakic to find his right price for Duchene, and stuff like that, I think you're being a bit blase about a potential complication - that or you think I'm saying it's a definite big spanner in the works, and I'm not.

 

[MtlPenFan]

I just can't picture Karlsson staying in Ottawa. If they move him and just get a bunch of picks and prospects in return, the fans, who are already halfway out the door, will have a full revolt.

If Ottawa gets a Letang in return, someone with similar pedigree and reputation (along with Sprong and a pick or two) I'm sure they'll at least consider it.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'd love Karlsson on the Pens. I just can't see any way we could afford him after next season.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I'd love Karlsson on the Pens. I just can't see any way we could afford him after next season.

Play around with arm chair GM on cap friendly. We certainly can make it work with out gutting our team.

 

[Shady Machine]

Whenever I see people talking about "fit", I think of play style and how they complement the team or their linemates/partners. I don't think it's a stylistic problem, Maatta just isn't good enough. I wouldn't say a 3rd line player doesn't "fit" next to Crosby, I'd just say he's not good enough.

Except we put 3rd liners with Crosby all the time and sometimes they fit (ZAR in his short stint, Sheary at times, Simon at times, etc) and sometimes they don't. Doesn't matter all that much, but to me, Maatta is a top 4 dman and Schultz is a top 4 dman. Maatta-Schultz though isn't an ideal 2nd pairing. So if not fit, no idea what else to call it.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Lol it's not the most realistic scenario, but if we've got only about 3 years of elite Sid and Geno left, it'll amount to nothing if Letang continues on his current trend and he's the lynchpin of the defense.

 

[Andy99]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Kris-Letang-is-a-victim-of-goaltending/177/91863

Ryan Wilson doesn’t think we should trade Letang. For what it’s worth. Some good points. Maybe get some better goaltending behind him...lol....

 

[Shaffer]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Kris-Letang-is-a-victim-of-goaltending/177/91863

Ryan Wilson doesn’t think we should trade Letang. For what it’s worth. Some good points. Maybe get some better goaltending behind him...lol....

or just get him a new brain.

 

[Tom Hanks]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Kris-Letang-is-a-victim-of-goaltending/177/91863

Ryan Wilson doesn’t think we should trade Letang. For what it’s worth. Some good points. Maybe get some better goaltending behind him...lol....

2015/16 SV% .921
2016/17 SV% .917
2017/18 SV% .909 without Niemi (.905 with)

The team has been bad in front of the goalie more this season than the others. Although one extra save every 3 games (25 extra for the season) would bump that SV% up to .921 (without Niemi).

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Play around with arm chair GM on cap friendly. We certainly can make it work with out gutting our team.

Karlsson's talked about looking for as much money as he thinks he's worth when he hits free agency. That sounds like he'll like surpass McDavid's deal, so higher than $12.5 million per year.

I don't see how the Pens can fit $13 million (or an extra $6 million if you assume Letang's contract goes out) without having to subtract a valuable current piece or two. Especially when you consider Guentzel's raise is coming soon.

 

[Peat]

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Ryan-Wilson/Kris-Letang-is-a-victim-of-goaltending/177/91863

Ryan Wilson doesn’t think we should trade Letang. For what it’s worth. Some good points. Maybe get some better goaltending behind him...lol....

The bit that jumped out to me is Letang-Dumoulin being the most effective pairing at limiting high danger chances. The common narrative is Letang's poor PDO comes down to him making mistakes that give up a lot of high danger chances... if that's not true, there's not a lot other to blame than the goaltenders tbh.

I try not to say the same thing over and over but when it comes to Letang, I don't see anything else to say. His stats since the start of the year are uber-solid and I don't see enough in his play to make me doubt those stats, which suggest he's making a major positive difference. The difference between his stats and perception is astonishing.

In fact, that goes for a lot of the defence - just found this other Wilson article which says that Ruh-Maatta and Oleksiak-Schultz have xGF of 63.91 and 59.54. All our defensive pairings right now have strong stats. Yet right now all we hear is we have to shake it up next season some how... I know stats aren't everything but neither is the eye test.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Karlsson's talked about looking for as much money as he thinks he's worth when he hits free agency. That sounds like he'll like surpass McDavid's deal, so higher than $12.5 million per year.

I don't see how the Pens can fit $13 million (or an extra $6 million if you assume Letang's contract goes out) without having to subtract a valuable current piece or two. Especially when you consider Guentzel's raise is coming soon.

I mean he can ask for 13 million but doesn’t mean he’ll get it. I used 11.5 mil in my workings and had no real trouble fitting that in.

The cap will be around 80 - 82 million by then and I doubt Sheary or Hunwick will still be around.

 

[Turin]

If you can’t find an upgrade on Letang, then you don’t trade him. You could certainly do worse despite his problems this year.