Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building - Locked in until July

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tom Hanks

Spelling mistakes brought to you by my iPhone.
Nov 10, 2017
30,408
32,434
82 would be fantastic, mostly for us but yeah.

Because I swear to god, if this team moves Rust and keeps Sheary, I am flying back and climbing on top of that Mario statue and taking a giant **** on it.

Everything I’ve heard says they love Rust. I wouldn’t worry about his spot on the team.

The guy just improves every year. Wow did not realise he’s on a 50 point pace this season. Amazing.
 

NMK11

Registered User
Apr 6, 2013
3,997
1,985
Should they? Yes.

Will they? Probably not.

But I just don't like the mix in the top four. As I wrote before, it feels like unless everyone plays absolutely at the top of their game, our defense seems to lack a #2 too often. We've got an inconsistent #1, then we've got three guys (Schultz, Dumoulin, Maatta), who play somewhere between a #3 (when they're on) to a #4 (when they're not at their absolute best).

We need a McDonagh-type. Ironically enough, I think Niskanen could have been that guy if he'd stuck around.

This has pretty much been my analysis of the D as well. If Maatta had continued his projection after his rookie year he could, and still may be, that #2. But Dumo and Schultz are much more one dimensional.

A quick look over the upcoming UFAs and I dont know if I particularly see a defenseman that would gel that top four together. It would have to mean a trade, meaning likely either Dumo or Maatta out. Id rather trade the former because I think Maatta is still young enough to improve, but I think other teams will see the same. If Oleksiak progresses on this team and proves to be another middle pairing guy, I guess Id be comfortable with getting a vet bottom pairing in the off season once we move Hunwick. Wed have Letang plus four middle pairing players plus a vet bottom guy. You can work with that and improve in season if needed.

I honestly dont think we would even need to move Sheary to start with. Whether we want to would be another question.
 

Ogrezilla

Nerf Herder
Jul 5, 2009
75,534
22,049
Pittsburgh
Everything I’ve heard says they love Rust. I wouldn’t worry about his spot on the team.

The guy just improves every year. Wow did not realise he’s on a 50 point pace this season. Amazing.
No way we lose rust. The kids locked in to sids rw for the rest of sids career
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,290
25,206
I think the big question in improving the defence isn't who would be considered expendable, but who's available. I think there were about six dmen, who'd arguably improve our top 4 at a cap hit we could hit, who moved last year. There's no guarantee we have the sort of pieces that this year's sellers will want.

As such, I'm skeptical about the idea that trading Letang and replacing him with two 4m dmen will work, because I'm skeptical we'll be able to trade for two strong top 4 dmen at 4m cap hits. I can see packaging Maatta (or another dman) with something nice for an upgrade, because Klefbom and Brodie could maybe got in deals like that if that's what the other side wants, but getting two for Letang? Ambitious. Not gonna rule it out after seeing Rutherford get Brassard, but not betting on it.

Actually, maybe the question is who's expendable other than dmen. Do you move Sprong for an upgrade on the D? Jarry? Sheahan? Guentzel? I think Rutherford's gonna have to do magic to do an upgrade trade using solely Dmen and picks/prospects, so the question is what other roster assets do you move? How badly do you want it?

Me, I think the D can do it if the forwards play their part in the team system, and that a big name signing would get hung out to dry the same way if they don't. I wouldn't move Guentzel. But I would like to get a few more Hagelin/Rust type guys who have the energy and conscience to support our D most of the season.


edit: I'd add that getting Brickley, if he's all he's cracked up to be, would be a big move and I really hope it happens. Dunno if there's any Euro FAs who could play a big part quickly.
 
Last edited:

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,691
8,111
Should the Pens make over the defense over the summer?

Maatta?

Letang?

NOTE: As I wrote in the last thread, you will NOT replace Letang, but the question is if you can find two guys who combined can upgrade the mix over what you've got with Letang and Ruh/Hunwick. Maybe a pair of good skating defensemen, one of whom adds some physicality to the mix?

I'd move Maatta unless there is a home run Letang trade out there. Dumo, Letang, Schultz, Big Rig are 4 good pieces and slide into where they belong. Maatta-Schultz is a funky pairing and Maatta-Letang has never really worked for long stretches of time. I think you can move Maatta for a guy that fits better and then find an upgrade on Ruh for Big Rig.

And then I'd obviously get rid of Hunwick, however possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riptide

The Old Master

come and take it.
Sep 27, 2004
17,402
4,757
burgh
I'd move Maatta unless there is a home run Letang trade out there. Dumo, Letang, Schultz, Big Rig are 4 good pieces and slide into where they belong. Maatta-Schultz is a funky pairing and Maatta-Letang has never really worked for long stretches of time. I think you can move Maatta for a guy that fits better and then find an upgrade on Ruh for Big Rig.
maybe you should ask the stars fans....they seem to like trading defense men to us. and this time, we would be giving them something of value back.:naughty:
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
I still want to see Letang moved this summer. Let him sort things out elsewhere--we can't afford to keep a guy as wildly inconsistent/injury-prone as the linchpin of our blueline. Letang, on his average night, is not helping this team win. At his best? Sure, but that's a once in a blue moon situation, and seemingly less and less frequent. Move the guy (I'd be astonished if we didn't have a dozen or more suitors) and use the return to reshape this roster. Go after one of the big defensemen this summer.
 

AverageJoeFan

Mad cat
Feb 15, 2018
1,913
585
Pittsburgh
I sincerely doubt Letang goes anywhere. I've seen a number of posts that indicate there would be tons of offers, but most of those would involve the Pens paying part of his contract IMO. I think he isn't worth his contract right now. I just do not see the Pens doing that. Between his turnovers and health issues I think he is just too big a risk with his cap hit. Although, I do wonder if Ottawa might consider taking the chance if the Pens could be a player on EK. Not sure how that would happen...

Olli is a tough one to figure out. I think the system here and now does not fit him or even more it doesn't fit what they ask him to do. Every now and then he flashes some offense skill, but not very often. He doesn't have the speed to pinch regularly and his size and reach aren't like Big Rig to make up for mistakes. His positioning has been faulty at times. I think he presents a fair value to his contract and I think we could trade him, but for what I am not sure.

Chad R has been okay. Not great or even close to great. This is another guy that is pure depth to me on the roster and should spend the year in WBS unless there's real injuries. That said I would hope other guys might step up like Pedan.

I think the UFA market is going to suck.

Hunwick is not a huge hit, but it's annoying in that it's not lower. Not sure if you can make a reclamation project out of him at this point since that is what this year was supposed to be. He becomes trade fodder I think for just about anything.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,691
8,111
I still want to see Letang moved this summer. Let him sort things out elsewhere--we can't afford to keep a guy as wildly inconsistent/injury-prone as the linchpin of our blueline. Letang, on his average night, is not helping this team win. At his best? Sure, but that's a once in a blue moon situation, and seemingly less and less frequent. Move the guy (I'd be astonished if we didn't have a dozen or more suitors) and use the return to reshape this roster. Go after one of the big defensemen this summer.

Who are "one of the big defensemen"? The only UFA dman anywhere comparable to Letang in quality is Carlson and he's going to get paid close to the same and is a worse player.

Even with Letang's brain farts and stuff, he's still a valuable top 4 dman and likely top pair. I just don't see a scenario where you move him and make the team better in the short term. Long term, maybe, but that doesn't fit in the window of the team's remaining Cup contending years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peat

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,290
25,206
Depends on the assets, of course, but I'd throw in a 3rd to move him for a 5th.

Fairy nuff, mainly just curious.

Who are "one of the big defensemen"? The only UFA dman anywhere comparable to Letang in quality is Carlson and he's going to get paid close to the same and is a worse player.

Even with Letang's brain farts and stuff, he's still a valuable top 4 dman and likely top pair. I just don't see a scenario where you move him and make the team better in the short term. Long term, maybe, but that doesn't fit in the window of the team's remaining Cup contending years.

With apologies if I'm putting words in McGuirk's mouth, maybe he was referring to the possibility of a guy like Karlsson/Doughty being on the trade market this summer?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Coach John McGuirk

Le Magnifique 66

Let's Go Pens
Jun 9, 2006
23,618
3,246
Montreal
It sucks cause I love the guy and he is part of this core that was put together when it all started, but watching him play closely it's really hard to notice how bad Letang is right now. Do we hang on for 1 more season and see if he can turn it around or his he really done. I mean 2 years ago against the Sharks the guy was a horse. If the right package comes along I think I would move him, but it's got to be worth it.

Hunwick needs to go, JR needs to get creative the same way he did with Scuderi
 

Pancakes

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Mar 4, 2011
25,933
17,613
It sucks cause I love the guy and he is part of this core that was put together when it all started, but watching him play closely it's really hard to notice how bad Letang is right now. Do we hang on for 1 more season and see if he can turn it around or his he really done. I mean 2 years ago against the Sharks the guy was a horse. If the right package comes along I think I would move him, but it's got to be worth it.

Hunwick needs to go, JR needs to get creative the same way he did with Scuderi

The guy is gonna score 50 points. His metrics are all still good as well.

It's the little mistakes that are killing him. If he can clean those up a bit he's fine. And I think he can.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,385
77,969
Redmond, WA
I think you need to add another Dumoulin to the team somehow, the problem is that it's going to be really difficult to get a guy like that and fit him in the cap. You need a guy that can anchor that 2nd pair, because Maatta and Schultz are both just complementary 2nd pair defensemen. Ideally, you keep Maatta and run with:

Dumoulin-Letang
Dumoulin 2.0-Schultz
Maatta-Oleksiak

That defense is very deep and fits how the Penguins run with their minutes on defense. If the Penguins are trading Maatta, it has to be for a better defensemen and it also has to include a change in philosophy for how the Penguins use their defense. They need to add another #3D, moving Maatta just means you need to add a #3 and a #4 then (or at worst a #3 and a Cole caliber defenseman).
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,691
8,111
Fairy nuff, mainly just curious.



With apologies if I'm putting words in McGuirk's mouth, maybe he was referring to the possibility of a guy like Karlsson/Doughty being on the trade market this summer?

Ah okay that makes sense, but damn that'd have to be a blockbuster.
 

AverageJoeFan

Mad cat
Feb 15, 2018
1,913
585
Pittsburgh
I think you need to add another Dumoulin to the team somehow, the problem is that it's going to be really difficult to get a guy like that and fit him in the cap. You need a guy that can anchor that 2nd pair, because Maatta and Schultz are both just complementary 2nd pair defensemen. Ideally, you keep Maatta and run with:

Dumoulin-Letang
Dumoulin 2.0-Schultz
Maatta-Oleksiak

That defense is very deep and fits how the Penguins run with their minutes on defense. If the Penguins are trading Maatta, it has to be for a better defensemen and it also has to include a change in philosophy for how the Penguins use their defense. They need to add another #3D, moving Maatta just means you need to add a #3 and a #4 then (or at worst a #3 and a Cole caliber defenseman).
I think that makes me wonder 2 things
1) Who is an upgrade for Maatta that could be gettable
2) Who is Dumo 2.0 out there that could be traded for...
 

mpp9

Registered User
Dec 5, 2010
32,613
5,067
Dumoulin’s ability to skate the puck out of danger along with him being a go to shutdown guy for us in back to back Cups keeps him higher on the totem pole for me relative to Maatta.

Id move Maatta for a better skating D-man. We could use a reliable #3 who fits the system better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riptide

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,691
8,111
Dumoulin’s ability to skate the puck out of danger along with him being a go to shutdown guy for us in back to back Cups keeps him higher on the totem pole for me relative to Maatta.

Id move Maatta for a better skating D-man. We could use a reliable #3 who fits the system better.

Agreed. If Maatta was a better skater, we would be fine. For whatever reason he and Schultz don't mesh and I suspect his lack of quickness is part of the reason.

I like Maatta, but he's been an awkward fit in Sully's system since he's been here. This year has been a really nice rebound year, but still not a natural fit for this blueline. Hopefully he has enough trade value to bring in an equally capable player that is a better fit.
 

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
80,385
77,969
Redmond, WA
I don't want to trade Maatta because he's a bad fit or he's a bad skater, I think trading Maatta makes sense because the Penguins need a better defensemen than him and they can't justify spending $9.6 million on 2 defensemen who can't anchor the 2nd pair. I don't think it's a poor fit issue, it's him not being good enough for what the Penguins need out of their 2nd pair D.
 
  • Like
Reactions: madinsomniac

RizzleMcRib

Cheeseburgers and rocket ships.
Jun 17, 2014
1,112
499
Wherever there are cheeseburgers.
I think that makes me wonder 2 things
1) Who is an upgrade for Maatta that could be gettable
2) Who is Dumo 2.0 out there that could be traded for...
I don't see why the Pens need to swing for the fences on a guy like Doughty or Karlsson. Letang, if he can turn it back around and stay healthy is more than a bargain. Keep him and maybe go for a UFA like Calvin de Haan (yes I know he had shoulder surgery). Can play 20 minutes a game. Good for about 20 points a season.
 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Registered User
Sep 5, 2008
28,726
2,346
Fairy nuff, mainly just curious.



With apologies if I'm putting words in McGuirk's mouth, maybe he was referring to the possibility of a guy like Karlsson/Doughty being on the trade market this summer?
Yep. Karlsson's leaving Ottawa, no doubt about it. Seems like Doughty is on the outs in LA too.

At worst, we strike out and are left with A. the return for Letang, B. getting out from that contract, C. have any potential cap left over for singing/re-signings.

Letang's just gotta go, imo. Enough's enough. I will say this however; I think his issues come from the sit-down he had this summer about playing with less reckless abandon. But, if that's the case, you either get this shit-can version of Letang who can stay relatively healthy, playing extremely underwhelming hockey for what he's capable of and costing this team north of $7M/yr, or you get the potential for top end Letang while he misses 25+ games a season, which will only get worse as he ages.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,290
25,206
Agreed. If Maatta was a better skater, we would be fine. For whatever reason he and Schultz don't mesh and I suspect his lack of quickness is part of the reason.

I like Maatta, but he's been an awkward fit in Sully's system since he's been here. This year has been a really nice rebound year, but still not a natural fit for this blueline. Hopefully he has enough trade value to bring in an equally capable player that is a better fit.

Oddly enough, Schultz's advanced stats are close to being the same regardless of whether he's with Maatta or not. Maatta's are all better away from Schultz (and notably better than Schultz's), except for everything to do with goals - GF%, HDGF%, PDO. Not sure how much of that is pace and how much of that is luck.

My biggest problem with Maatta is it looks like if he takes too many minutes, his skating dramatically drops.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Shady Machine
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->