Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building | Cap Details + Links in First Post | The JR Did What ?!?!?! Edition

[Empoleon8771]

Do you know the most frustrating part of these goalie conversations that litter Penguins talk? The people who whine about goaltending never mention what guys like DeSmith and Murray are making, which 100% matters. If Murray and DeSmith were getting paid like $9 million combined, some of the things said in here would be more valid. But on their current pay levels? It's ridiculous.

Holding Murray to the standard of "Vezina caliber" when he makes $3.75 million is absurd. That's demanding Murray to be a $7-8 million goalie when he's making half of it, only to get pissed when he doesn't hit that. It's absurd and completely unfair towards Murray. Yet you still people calling him a bum despite him being one of the best cost effective starters in the NHL.

 

[Hell Yeah!!!]

Do you know the most frustrating part of these goalie conversations that litter Penguins talk? The people who whine about goaltending never mention what guys like DeSmith and Murray are making, which 100% matters. If Murray and DeSmith were getting paid like $9 million combined, some of the things said in here would be more valid. But on their current pay levels? It's ridiculous.

Holding Murray to the standard of "Vezina caliber" when he makes $3.75 million is absurd. That's demanding Murray to be a $7-8 million goalie when he's making half of it, only to get pissed when he doesn't hit that. It's absurd and completely unfair towards Murray. Yet you still people calling him a bum despite him being one of the best cost effective starters in the NHL.

In my view Murray played Vezina caliber during our two cup runs, and we won the cup. I don't care what he is getting paid, if he doesn't play as good, we won't win the cup. Maybe Crosby and Malkin aren't good enough, maybe Sully is not good enough, maybe the roster in its entirety is not good enough. For whatever reason we need Murray to play better than he is for us to even sniff the cup.

The fact that he is playing at a $3M level doesn't give me solace, if the objective is to win a cup.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Excuses and assholes.....you know the saying.

So many crowned Murray the 2nd coming and now that he's had a year and 3/4s worth of largely average to bum level play they can't and won't backpedal.

It's literally the same shit as the MAF apologists when he couldn't stop a yoga ball. Countless excuses that "shifted" blame elsewhere.

 

[Empoleon8771]

In my view Murray played Vezina caliber during our two cup runs, and we won the cup. I don't care what he is getting paid, if he doesn't play as good, we won't win the cup. Maybe Crosby and Malkin aren't good enough, maybe Sully is not good enough, maybe the roster in its entirety is not good enough. For whatever reason we need Murray to play better than he is for us to even sniff the cup.

The fact that he is playing at a $3M level doesn't give me solace, if the objective is to win a cup.

And that is absolutely asinine. If my manager tells me I'm doing a bad job because I'm not performing up to the standard of an advisor engineer, I'm going to remind him that I'm an associate engineer being paid like an associate engineer. If you want to ***** about him not performing to a Vezina caliber, wait until he's paid to. It's just like complaining about Simon as he's making $750k and on pace for 2nd line ES numbers

 

[Turin]

Excuses and *******s.....you know the saying.

So many crowned Murray the 2nd coming and now that he's had a year and 3/4s worth of largely average to bum level play they can't and won't backpedal.

It's literally the same **** as the MAF apologists when he couldn't stop a yoga ball. Countless excuses that "shifted" blame elsewhere.

Murray has league average stats behind a below league average defense. The end. End of discussion.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Murray has league average stats behind a below league average defense. The end. End of discussion.

You mean the guy that had a sub .900 save percentage for most of this season while Casey DeSmith, until about a month ago, had a save percentage above .920 playing behind the same exact team?

I already showed that Murray is WELL below league average among full time starting goalies. The numbers back me as well as the eye test.

I was at the Stadium series game in Philly. Sat in the f***ing rain for nearly 4 hours to witness Murray single handedly give that game away. A game that we should have won by a mile, even though we had only 4 Dmen for 2+ periods. Watched him bail on his team right after the horn, didn't do the handshake line like a punk ass.

 

[DegenX]

Let's all remember we cheer for the same team. Discuss the post, not the poster. If you can't do that, then please use the ignore feature.

 

[Burn]

Not really. Buckley was Murray's goalie coach in WBS (I believe?), while Bales worked more so with Fleury. Given that MAF was moving on, going from Bales to Buckley would have been a pretty easy move to make.

Then something is going on or not being addressed. Murray used to be laser focused, tracked pucks well and crisp with his movements.

Now he's going side to side flat and always his mechanics are off.

It's a totally different player.

 

[BHD]

I’m indifferent to what an organization pays its goaltenders as long as they can back it up.

 

[Burn]

I never thought fwd. I kept saying Shero was going all in on the blue line because it was stocked full of blue line talent like the league had not seen in years.... and this was Shero who loved defenseman and never touched Euro fwds unless it was late rounders.

Easiest prediction I ever made.

When he passed on Trouba I was shocked as hell though. He was everything I thought Shero would covet in a blue liner.

DP busted, but man he was fun to watch in juniors. Did some insane ****.

The league changed and DePo just kept playing that slow down game.

I thought he was going to be a Kaberle type.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m indifferent to what an organization pays its goaltenders as long as they can back it up.

The issue is that your team overall is better because you have that additional $3-4 million. Until Murray starts making that much, which would prevent the Penguins from having someone like Bjugstad, Rust or Maatta on the roster, I don't think it's at all fair to hold him to that standard.

Anything above average should be viewed as good for Murray. I'd be very happy with him putting up a .915 save% over a season at this point. Complaining about him because he's not putting up elite numbers is absolutely asinine. Criticizing him for putting up bad numbers is fair, criticizing him for not being elite is absurd.

 

[BHD]

People aren’t complaining because he isn’t putting up strong numbers. They’re disappointed (and that’s putting it lightly) with him putting up below average games. And if he doesn’t pick it up, he might not get the chance to redeem himself.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The league changed and DePo just kept playing that slow down game.

I thought he was going to be a Kaberle type.

Offensive defenseman are almost impossible for me to determine how good they can be.

Letang is about the only guy I’ve nailed as a legit star. From Lupy all the way to DP it’s been all roadkill when I love an offensive blue line prospect for the Pens.

 

[Empoleon8771]

People aren’t complaining because he isn’t putting up strong numbers. They’re disappointed (and that’s putting it lightly) with him putting up below average games. And if he doesn’t pick it up, he might not get the chance to redeem himself.

Every goalie puts up below average games. Murray doesn't put up below average games any more frequently than a vast majority other goalie. So again, I'll say that it's completely people holding Murray to an absurd standard.

It's honestly ridiculous. Since the 8 game winning streak ended, Murray has a .907 save% in 13 games, with more above average save% games than below average save% games. This team just isn't that good this year and the goalie is the scapegoat for people who refuse to admit that.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You mean the guy that had a sub .900 save percentage for most of this season while Casey DeSmith, until about a month ago, had a save percentage above .920 playing behind the same exact team?

I already showed that Murray is WELL below league average among full time starting goalies. The numbers back me as well as the eye test.

I was at the Stadium series game in Philly. Sat in the ****ing rain for nearly 4 hours to witness Murray single handedly give that game away. A game that we should have won by a mile, even though we had only 4 Dmen for 2+ periods. Watched him bail on his team right after the horn, didn't do the handshake line like a punk ass.

It's hard to sit in the rain, is it?

 

[Burn]

Offensive defenseman are almost impossible for me to determine how good they can be.

Letang is about the only guy I’ve nailed as a legit star. From Lupy all the way to DP it’s been all roadkill when I love an offensive blue line prospect for the Pens.

I'm hoping Patrick coming back means hes in Minnesota. Blue liners coming out of there like crazy this up coming draft.

 

[Night Shift]

Brodeur in his 3rd season after winning the cup missed the playoffs the following year. Had a couple disappointing season after that before they starting winning again. He was still developing.

Murray as long as he stays healthy seems on the same track. Patience!

 

[BHD]

Every goalie puts up below average games. Murray doesn't put up below average games any more frequently than a vast majority other goalie. So again, I'll say that it's completely people holding Murray to an absurd standard.

It's honestly ridiculous. Since the 8 game winning streak ended, Murray has a .907 save% in 13 games, with more above average save% games than below average save% games. This team just isn't that good this year and the goalie is the scapegoat for people who refuse to admit that.

As I alluded to in the other thread, maybe I'm being overtly critical because the games mean more. However, he's had some bad games (e.g., the outdoor game).

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Brodeur in his 3rd season after winning the cup missed the playoffs the following year. Had a couple disappointing season after that before they starting winning again. He was still developing.

Murray as long as he stays healthy seems on the same track. Patience!

Patience doesnt matchup with this core...thats the problem. Already said multiple times I think Murray will figure things out eventually and be our franchise goalie...but we need that now. From someone. If he isnt getting it done...go out and get someone(better than Niemi) this Summer and dump those D contracts.

We already had to deal with ups and downs with Fleury all those years..he finally reaches an age where he settles down and plays much better but expansion draft comes. We can't afford to deal with the ups and downs again. That means any goalie letting in 3-4+ per game. Especially this time of the year when every game is important. If they are doing that now...

And yeah the expectations have been high for Murray because of what he did in those cup runs...kind of hard not to compare him to that type of level especially since I believe that was the main reason we won those cups. There were plenty of games where our guys werent scoring but goaltending kept them in it until they finally did and we came out on top...2-1..1-0..

Point is we still have the offense to win it all. We have the same guys on D that won us the cup in Tang, Schultz, Dumo(the main 3 at least) yet all losses are blamed on us having JJ. Only huge difference is the goaltending we are getting. Doesnt mean there arent other problems...but thats the biggest difference. Dont know why some act like the 2017 cup we were still the fastest team in the League/playoffs...or that we had a solid D....it was our goaltending that won it all for us. Keeping us in just about every game until our stars came up with a goal.

 

[Shrimper]

You mean the guy that had a sub .900 save percentage for most of this season while Casey DeSmith, until about a month ago, had a save percentage above .920 playing behind the same exact team?

I already showed that Murray is WELL below league average among full time starting goalies. The numbers back me as well as the eye test.

I was at the Stadium series game in Philly. Sat in the ****ing rain for nearly 4 hours to witness Murray single handedly give that game away. A game that we should have won by a mile, even though we had only 4 Dmen for 2+ periods. Watched him bail on his team right after the horn, didn't do the handshake line like a punk ass.

We all know Murray had a bad start to the season and whether that was down to him playing through his injury or not is up to people to decide. But a month by month break down shows that he has improved generally.

Oct: .893 SV% - 3.76 GAA
Nov: .850 SV% - 4.52 GAA
Dec: .959 SV% - 1.38 GAA
Jan: .917 SV% - 2.62 GAA
Feb: .920 SV% - 2.87 GAA

I haven't included March as he has only played one game and it is a small sample size.

Funnily enough, Murray is much better on the road, .928 SV% and 2.39 GAA compared to .889 SV% and 3.69 GAA at home.

 

[PensandCaps]

Murray on the year is 6 points above league average.


Yah..he's not the reason they suck.

 

[Night Shift]

Patience doesnt matchup with this core...thats the problem. Already said multiple times I think Murray will figure things out eventually and be our franchise goalie...but we need that now. From someone. If he isnt getting it done...go out and get someone(better than Niemi) this Summer and dump those D contracts.

We already had to deal with ups and downs with Fleury all those years..he finally reaches an age where he settles down and plays much better but expansion draft comes. We can't afford to deal with the ups and downs again. That means any goalie letting in 3-4+ per game. Especially this time of the year when every game is important. If they are doing that now...

He's still young and younger than the core, and He's not a finished product. What can you do?

Also last I checked this isn't football. hockey players have better longevity in their early 30's so we are not necessarily at the end of this era. But you are right that we have to unload the d contracts this summer. I think rather than a vet he needs a new goalie coach and Jarry needs to be up.

 

[Gurglesons]

People citing the f***ing outdoor game need to seriously shut up.

Fluke goals are basically guaranteed. Not to mention it was f***ing pouring rain.

Maybe if the Flyers aren’t up a man plus for like five straight minutes because our team can’t get the puck out of our zone, we win?

 

[Riptide]

Patience doesnt matchup with this core...thats the problem. Already said multiple times I think Murray will figure things out eventually and be our franchise goalie...but we need that now. From someone. If he isnt getting it done...go out and get someone(better than Niemi) this Summer and dump those D contracts.

And it's not something that is guaranteed to be better/different with a different goalie. If this prediction could be made, Philly (among others) wouldn't have been searching for a #1 goalie for the last decade.

The issue here isn't Murray. Has he had some rough games? Absolutely. But every goalie has those, and given Murray's age, it would be a MUCH better bet to bet on him getting better and more consistent as he gets older (he's 24/25) vs trying to get someone else who is older and who we'd still have no guarantee's that they'd be any better or more consistent.

 

[Night Shift]

People sighting the ****ing outdoor game need to seriously shut up.

Fluke goals are basically guaranteed. Not to mention it was ****ing pouring rain.

Maybe if the Flyers aren’t up a man plus for like five straight minutes because our team can’t get the puck out of our zone, we win?

All Murray's fault we were down to 4 D that game!!!