Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Turning Pages

[Dipsy Doodle]

Patric Hornqvist has scored 20 goals every year he’s been in the league. 10+ at EV every year.

He’s the definition of a primary scoring threat. Just because he doesn’t do it by taking clear shots every time doesn’t mean jack.

None of that makes him a good primary scoring threat on the wing for a contender.

Rust and Hornqvist are very good wingers who do a lot of things that help their lines, but if either one of them is the most skilled player on their line, it's going to have trouble. They do their best work along the boards and in front of the net, and in Rust's case in his own end. Ideally you don't want the puck in their hands, but when they're the most skilled winger on their line that is an inevitability.

 

[Gurglesons]

None of that makes him a good primary scoring threat on the wing for a contender.

Rust and Hornqvist are very good wingers who do a lot of things that help their lines, but if either one of them is the most skilled player on their line, it's going to have trouble. They do their best work along the boards and in front of the net, and in Rust's case in his own end. Ideally you don't want the puck in their hands, but when they're the most skilled winger on their line that is an inevitability.

Good thing they are on a line with Malkin or Brassard at center then???

I don’t see how you have players unlike Rust and Hornqvist as the focal on a line in the cap era.

Please name where this occurred in the last five years on a cup winner?

 

[Peat]

That was the Sid hatty game right?

Also, technically it doesn’t..

Jake - Sid - Simon
Pearson - Malkin - Rust
ZAR - Brassard - Kessel
Sheahan - Cullen - Hornqvist

Issue is that third line.

Technically true but Horny isn't staying on the 4th for long and yes, that 3rd line is somewhat questionable.

None of that makes him a good primary scoring threat on the wing for a contender.

Rust and Hornqvist are very good wingers who do a lot of things that help their lines, but if either one of them is the most skilled player on their line, it's going to have trouble. They do their best work along the boards and in front of the net, and in Rust's case in his own end. Ideally you don't want the puck in their hands, but when they're the most skilled winger on their line that is an inevitability.

Says the man who happily dreamcast them together on a third line centred by Staal

 

[Andy99]

Good point on Pearson-Rust. I would be interested to see this for a bit:

Jake-Sid-Hornqvist
Pearson-Malkin-Rust
Simon-Brass-Kessel
Cullen-Sheahan-Aston Reese

I, too, think Rust would be a great Hags substitute for Geno and want to see him there for a little bit....I’d prefer G’s and Sid’s wingers get swapped for awhile...Simon has played the best with Sid and is a better fit there...what about...

Simon-Sid-Horny/Phil
Jake-G-Rust
Pearson-Brass-Horny/Phil

 

[Gurglesons]

I, too, think Rust would be a great Hags substitute for Geno and want to see him there for a little bit....I’d prefer G’s and Sid’s wingers get swapped for awhile...Simon has played the best with Sid and is a better fit there...what about...

Simon-Sid-Horny/Phil
Jake-G-Rust
Pearson-Brass-Horny/Phil

I think that is the dirty secret nobody wants to admit. This team is better moving Jake off Sid’s line if you want three equal lines of depth.

 

[Peat]

I, too, think Rust would be a great Hags substitute for Geno and want to see him there for a little bit....I’d prefer G’s and Sid’s wingers get swapped for awhile...Simon has played the best with Sid and is a better fit there...what about...

Simon-Sid-Horny/Phil
Jake-G-Rust
Pearson-Brass-Horny/Phil

I'm not completely against this idea, but I don't think they're going to break up a combo that has 25 goals with only 10 against in the last 20 games - not while its still this hot - and I kinda see their point.

Fun fact - the Sid&Jake combo have as many 5v5 goals since Sid's return as the entire Carolina Hurricanes.

I think that is the dirty secret nobody wants to admit. This team is better moving Jake off Sid’s line if you want three equal lines of depth.

This is true but I'm kinda okay sacrificing depth for a 1st line that plays like that.

 

[Clare2904]

Any trades rumours for us that I've missed?

 

[Shady Machine]

Patric Hornqvist has scored 20 goals every year he’s been in the league when playing the majority of a healthy season. 10+ at EV every year.

He’s the definition of a primary scoring threat. Just because he doesn’t do it by taking clear shots every time doesn’t mean jack.

Exactly. I'm less concerned about style and more about effectiveness. Horny is a primary scoring threat. He may not work on every line, so chemistry concerns are legit, but calling him a complimentary winger is a narrow and inaccurate view.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think that is the dirty secret nobody wants to admit. This team is better moving Jake off Sid’s line if you want three equal lines of depth.

I'd definitely like to see it tried as it could give you the best lines 1-3.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd definitely like to see it tried as it could give you the best lines 1-3.

I think putting him with Brassard would help Brass’s game immensely.

He reminds me a ton of Zucc.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Any trades rumours for us that I've missed?

Nothing of late.
Last things i remember are they had interest in Muzzin and there were alot of Western Conf. teams scouting at PPG a few or more weeks back.

 

[Peat]

Any trades rumours for us that I've missed?

Apparently some guy said that St Louis had started talks on Pietrangelo and that we were interested, but that's about it.

 

[PhilThrillPill]

Brassard is struggling with his third line center role and the theory is that he would do better on line 2.
Malkin is simply struggling.

Some are wondering how Sheahan would handle a third line centering position this year...

I am more a listener than a poster on these boards but...

Why not try a line 2 centered by Brassard with Malkin on the wing?

That might answer many questions in a short period of time and wake up two sleeping beauties...

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Good thing they are on a line with Malkin or Brassard at center then???

That much is understood. The point is that those centers can't play with themselves, at least not in public.

I don’t see how you have players unlike Rust and Hornqvist as the focal on a line in the cap era.

Please name where this occurred in the last five years on a cup winner?

I said that we cant have a middle six filled with so little skill on the wing. The only Cup winner of the last 5 years that did was the defensive juggernaut in LA, which we clearly aren't.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Says the man who happily dreamcast them together on a third line centred by Staal

Well, we're talking about the line-up with Brassard, where the 3rd would have to be primarily a scoring line. Obviously a line with Staal is going to have different priorities.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think that is the dirty secret nobody wants to admit. This team is better moving Jake off Sid’s line if you want three equal lines of depth.

I'd definitely like to see it tried as it could give you the best lines 1-3.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Last playoffs we had only one winger producing at ES consistently, Guentzel.

This year if one of Guentzel or Kessel is hurt, we might have these troubles again.

 

[Riptide]

I think he has blown that chance about as thoroughly as possible. He's an idiot if this is true.

I don't recall seeing the DK article that said he turned down a multi year offer from the Pens, but depending on what the offer was, yes that would have been a mistake on his part. Brassard had another year left on his contract, and unless he knew something that others didn't in regards to Brassard's future with the Penguins, the chances Sheahan would have earned this season to perform offensively as he did last season would have been significantly reduced - and with that, a big deduction in whatever contract offers he would have received.

Him betting on himself would have made sense if it looked like he was a lock to be our 3c this season. Anything other than that would have been a mistake.

 

[Peat]

Well, we're talking about the line-up with Brassard, where the 3rd would have to be primarily a scoring line. Obviously a line with Staal is going to have different priorities.

14.8m seems a tad expensive for a pure checking line, although this would seem to be quite the tangent so I'm happy to leave it as you don't want that on a scoring line if you are.

 

[Shady Machine]

That much is understood. The point is that those centers can't play with themselves, at least not in public.



I said that we cant have a middle six filled with so little skill on the wing. The only Cup winner of the last 5 years that did was the defensive juggernaut in LA, which we clearly aren't.

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Rust/Fehr. We won a cup with that.
HBK

 

[Shady Machine]

Okay killer, show me your lines.

 

[Riptide]

I don’t know in what world Rust or Hornqvist are “complimentary”.

It's not a knock on them as wingers, but when they're the best wingers on the line, you're running into issues. It's no different then Kunitz - Crosby - Dupuis. Either of those guys were fine in the top 6 - especially when you could put them with a center like Crosby or Malkin. But both of them on one line caused issues for us, and was a major source of frustration with this board for years. Rust, Hornqvist and Pearson all fall into the same category. Yes they're (to varying degree's) top 6 wingers (or where at one point), but none of them are ones where you want them being the best winger on the line. Simon is a little different because at least his game is based around his offensive skill. That said, unless you have a great center, he too is likely someone you do not want being the best winger on the line - but I think it's less of an issue with him then it is with the other 3.

The only Cup winner of the last 5 years that did was the defensive juggernaut in LA, which we clearly aren't.

And that line still had more skill on the wing with Toffoli then what we're suggesting with some combination of Simon, Pearson, Hornqvist and Rust.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Rust/Fehr. We won a cup with that.
HBK

That middle six had skill - Kessel. And you see, HBK was a lighting in a bottle, it clicked great one year, but the next one not at all.

 

[Peat]

Brassard is struggling with his third line center role and the theory is that he would do better on line 2.
Malkin is simply struggling.

Some are wondering how Sheahan would handle a third line centering position this year...

I am more a listener than a poster on these boards but...

Why not try a line 2 centered by Brassard with Malkin on the wing?

That might answer many questions in a short period of time and wake up two sleeping beauties...

I'd be intrigued. I think giving the Simon-Malkin-Horny line another game or two after they got moving last game, and giving Brassard more time at C, is the sensible option for now... but this could be the best option pretty soon if things don't work.

Sheary-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Rust/Fehr. We won a cup with that.
HBK

And there it is. Admittedly, it might be the weakest top 6 winger corps to win a Cup, but they did it. And if we did it once, why not again when with better players?

A lot of the hot streak at the beginning of last year featured a top 6 minus Kessel and Guentzel. It can be done. Maybe its a little form dependent, but what isn't?

 

[The Old Master]

Yet we won a cup with Malkin and Phil on the 2nd line?

Nearly every team in the league plays their best winger in the top six. This idea that we can’t to be successful is so dumb.

most teams don't have the players to run 3 top lines..... and it's not that we can't be successful with 2 top lines, but we can be more successful running 3 .