Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Trolololo

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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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The Johnson signing stinks even more now because everyone knows he won't move him and now the option is to move Maatta to find a defenseman (by people here) that can babysit the guys this team is stuck with. I mean I am all for moving Maatta for other reasons, but I also want Johnson gone. You upgrade on those two, then you allow Oleksiak and Riikola to stay and learn. I'm ok with that.

What a time to be alive.

Where people also blame a kid (that should still be in the AHL to grow) that didn't ask to play past his 9 game tryout to burn a year of ELC and waiver eligibility.
 

Ogrezilla

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Where people also blame a kid (that should still be in the AHL to grow) that didn't ask to play past his 9 game tryout to burn a year of ELC and waiver eligibility.
is anybody actually blaming Sprong? I mean, beyond giving him his share of blame for his own play.

And let's be serious right now. If Sprong was in the AHL the same people upset about his current playing time would be upset that he's not being called up.
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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The Johnson signing stinks even more now because everyone knows he won't move him and now the option is to move Maatta to find a defenseman (by people here) that can babysit the guys this team is stuck with. I mean I am all for moving Maatta for other reasons, but I also want Johnson gone. You upgrade on those two, then you allow Oleksiak and Riikola to stay and learn. I'm ok with that.

What a time to be alive.

Where people also blame a kid (that should still be in the AHL to grow) that didn't ask to play past his 9 game tryout to burn a year of ELC and waiver eligibility.

I'd love Johnson to go, but it's not going to happen for obvious reasons.

I'd also love to see Oleksiak gone because frankly you can't teach or turn around dumb (which ultimately is the difference between turning around Oleksiak versus turning around Cole or Schultz or teaching Riikola).
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Who said to add a first to Maatta for an older D?

I said I'd move Maatta for a defenseman who was an impending UFA or had a year left. I think that is what @Riptide was replying to. Or, did I miss something?

Only time I'd consider adding a 1st to Maatta is (a) if it were top 10 protected and (b) were for a legit higher end 2/3 with some term and a good cap hit who could help Letang drive the offense (rushing the puck, smart and quick decisions with the puck) AND play a good 200 foot game
Salary wise if we can figure out a way to make Goligoski back here work with sending Maatta + Sprong + Rust there for Goligoski + Panik + a pick, I'd probably make that happen. It drops Rust from the cap next year, we get Goose back and when Schultz comes back we finally have a solid 4 and Panik is a UFA at the end of the year and well, hopefully they don't squander the pick (maybe a 2nd rounder?).

Maybe get the Coyotes to retain on Panik to make it a wash cap hit wise for us.

Edit: I wish we had Grabner, but I can just imagine people freaking out at the suggestion of it.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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is anybody actually blaming Sprong? I mean, beyond giving him his share of blame for his own play.

And let's be serious right now. If Sprong was in the AHL the same people upset about his current playing time would be upset that he's not being called up.

Nah, the thing is this, if you still have Sprong with waiver eligibility and you saw what he's done this year and its clear he's not NHL ready right now and NEEDS more time in the AHL, then you know he needs to be there to grow and that's exactly the issue. He spent 1 season in the AHL. He needed more than that. People are speaking so matter-of-fact-ly that he's just garbage and has no future. That's pathetic. Those people are pathetic.
 

KIRK

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Salary wise if we can figure out a way to make Goligoski back here work with sending Maatta + Sprong + Rust there for Goligoski + Panik + a pick, I'd probably make that happen. It drops Rust from the cap next year, we get Goose back and when Schultz comes back we finally have a solid 4 and Panik is a UFA at the end of the year and well, hopefully they don't squander the pick (maybe a 2nd rounder?).

That's definitely an example that doesn't involve the Pens 1st.
 

Ogrezilla

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Nah, the thing is this, if you still have Sprong with waiver eligibility and you saw what he's done this year and its clear he's not NHL ready right now and NEEDS more time in the AHL, then you know he needs to be there to grow and that's exactly the issue. He spent 1 season in the AHL. He needed more than that. People are speaking so matter-of-fact-ly that he's just garbage and has no future. That's pathetic. Those people are pathetic.
I wish he could be in the AHL too.

You know who are also pathetic? The people who are just as blindly blaming everyone but Sprong for Sprong's play. And there's no way those same people would be anything but upset about Sprong in the AHL right now.
 
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Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
77,316
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That's definitely an example that doesn't involve the Pens 1st.

I love Rust, but he's just not working on this roster, Sullivan doesn't want to keep him in the bottom 6 and the bottom 6 is an abomination mostly being the 4th line that's the problem. Even to start the season the idea was Simon-Brassard-Rust and that was abandoned to make Brass a winger for whatever reason, because apparently an 82 game schedule isn't hard enough, the team should try stupid shit too.

I think the deal works out for both sides to be honest, I'd rather have Grabner, but not at that cap hit and term. Panik is 1yr, gives JR some flexibility next summer to figure out how to retool this roster with more cap space and hopefully less of his rejects from his Carolina days.

I wish he could be in the AHL too.

You know who are also pathetic? The people who are just as blindly blaming everyone but Sprong for Sprong's play. And there's no way those same people would be anything but upset about Sprong in the AHL right now.
The guy is not confident, he needs to work on his game away from the puck, he needs to know what his bread and butter is and he hasn't been doing that, inversely, the coach isn't putting him in a spot to break out of the slump and likely never will because of how he is and he can't be in the AHL.

That's what most have maintained in the Sprong argument for those that don't think he's just some bust.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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I'd love Johnson to go, but it's not going to happen for obvious reasons.

I'd also love to see Oleksiak gone because frankly you can't teach or turn around dumb (which ultimately is the difference between turning around Oleksiak versus turning around Cole or Schultz or teaching Riikola).

I'm just thinking who would take Oleksiak. He's producing, so I think a team with a deeper defense that likes that he is able to handle the puck might take a risk and he would probably thrive in a deeper defense type of environment where his role is more simplified to just being a pmd type. Pens are trying to round out his game, but they also keep flopping him from LD to RD and the defense is generally a mess. You can't fix and bring along players when your defense is a nightmare already.

Could you imagine a guy like Schultz being traded to us in the state this team is right now? People would call him crap too because he likely would be with the way this team is handling players at the moment. Especially ones that require more development. Riikola has so much promise but man, if they don't upgrade on Johnson and Maatta to solidify that top 4, yikes.
 

Honour Over Glory

Fire Sully
Jan 30, 2012
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Even the current roster...good lord, why Garrett Wilson?

I would have called up Lafferty or Angello. Big, skates, is a right handed shot. It's a no brainer, well for some.

Guentzel, Crosby, Laffery/Angello
Pearson, Malkin, Kessel
Simon, Brassard, Rust
Aston-Reese, Sheahan, DiPauli or Grant, Sheahan, Aston-Reese

Roll with that.
 
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Ogrezilla

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The guy is not confident, he needs to work on his game away from the puck, he needs to know what his bread and butter is and he hasn't been doing that, inversely, the coach isn't putting him in a spot to break out of the slump and likely never will because of how he is and he can't be in the AHL.

That's what most have maintained in the Sprong argument for those that don't think he's just some bust.
Agreed on where he's at. I just don't see anybody actually blaming him to some ridiculous degree, and I don't think I've seen anyone call him a bust. I've seen plenty of people deflect every bit of criticism at him as the coaches and linemates fault though. Or maybe it's just warm cookies doing it enough that it feels like a bunch of people :laugh:
 

KIRK

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Aug 2, 2005
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I'm just thinking who would take Oleksiak. He's producing, so I think a team with a deeper defense that likes that he is able to handle the puck might take a risk and he would probably thrive in a deeper defense type of environment where his role is more simplified to just being a pmd type. Pens are trying to round out his game, but they also keep flopping him from LD to RD and the defense is generally a mess. You can't fix and bring along players when your defense is a nightmare already.

Could you imagine a guy like Schultz being traded to us in the state this team is right now? People would call him crap too because he likely would be with the way this team is handling players at the moment. Especially ones that require more development. Riikola has so much promise but man, if they don't upgrade on Johnson and Maatta to solidify that top 4, yikes.

Oleksiak is productive and on a shorter and cheaper deal. Someone would bite.
 

Tom Hanks

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Nov 10, 2017
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Oleksiak is productive and on a shorter and cheaper deal. Someone would bite.

It should be one of the easiest/quickest deals to pull off too. Even for a pick. Prow can come up in the meantime
 

DegenX

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Aug 14, 2011
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Maatta with cap retained for Montour or bust. Accept no substitutions.

i


This guy will look good in black & yellow
 
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Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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@KIRK I should have worded it better. The way it was worded, I said move Maatta for Gologoski or Muzzin/Martinez and said add a 1st, Sprong, whatever just get it done. I worded it poorly. I wouldn't add a 1st (and maybe not even Sprong) for Gogo. But depending on what exactly the deal was for Muzzin/Martinez, if it was lotto protected, I probably would for them, and I certainly wouldn't hesitate from having it (the 1st) as part of the deal, depending on what exactly the entire deal was.

But then I see both of those players (Muzzin/Martinez) as better players then Maatta on very good contracts. Muzzin gives you size and very strong puck moving skills, while being fairly decent in his own zone and can get around the ice fairly well. When he's on his game, he's a 2/3D. Martinez isn't small, also fairly good defensively, and can move the puck and skate well. He can also play RD, even though he's a LHS. These guys are not Letangs, but they're somewhere between Dumoulin and Schultz, and both would really help this team. So yes I'd add a lot Maatta to make that happen - and this is coming from someone who thinks a lot higher of Maatta then most here.

You upgrade on those two, then you allow Oleksiak and Riikola to stay and learn. I'm ok with that.

Sorry... I honestly do not see any real reason to keep Oleksiak. You can find a skilled blueliner who has some size without being completely inept in the DZ like Oleksiak. Yes his size is nice when you have idiots running around... but given how infrequently he really uses it, I'd much rather just ditch his ass for whatever instead of trying to find the perfect partner to cover for his flaws.

Zero issues with Riikola being here, as I think his game is well rounded enough that as he grows, he'll actually be an asset to us. I don't think Oleksiak has the brains to learn to be a smart enough defender to actually warrant keeping around. I'd love to be wrong, because someone with his size, skating and puck handing skills would be a godsend if he could actually defend competently... I just don't see that happening.
 

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
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Salary wise if we can figure out a way to make Goligoski back here work with sending Maatta + Sprong + Rust there for Goligoski + Panik + a pick, I'd probably make that happen. It drops Rust from the cap next year, we get Goose back and when Schultz comes back we finally have a solid 4 and Panik is a UFA at the end of the year and well, hopefully they don't squander the pick (maybe a 2nd rounder?).

Maybe get the Coyotes to retain on Panik to make it a wash cap hit wise for us.

Edit: I wish we had Grabner, but I can just imagine people freaking out at the suggestion of it.

I don't. Talk about a stupid player. I was so happy he went elsewhere at the TD and in FA. I have zero regrets over him.

Rust out and Panik in? I'd be torn on that - and I'm a fan of Panik. For obvious reasons, I'd try to do it without including Sprong, as I still think of what he could be if he could keep playing like he did vs Ottawa and Buffalo. But I like Panik... I also love Perlini... and would include Sprong and Rust in a heartbeat if we could get both Panik and Perlini.

Maatta, Sprong and Rust for Goligoski, Panik and Perlini? Done. I'd even add slightly to that if needed. And cap wise, it's only about 800k more for us, and wouldn't require any retention by Arizona.
 

Riptide

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Dec 29, 2011
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Nah, the thing is this, if you still have Sprong with waiver eligibility and you saw what he's done this year and its clear he's not NHL ready right now and NEEDS more time in the AHL, then you know he needs to be there to grow and that's exactly the issue. He spent 1 season in the AHL. He needed more than that. People are speaking so matter-of-fact-ly that he's just garbage and has no future. That's pathetic. Those people are pathetic.

But that doesn't make them wrong. If he NEEDs to be in the AHL to continue growing, then he's f***ed and basically he's not going to have a future. Because by the time 31 someones will let him pass through waivers he'll be old enough that he's probably done anyway's as an NHLer. So I fail to see how that makes them wrong, or pathetic - it's calling a spade a spade. You don't have to like it, and it sucks for Sprong... but it is what it is.

And also it's largely up to him. If he played every single game like he did those Ottawa/Buffalo games, people would have vastly different opinions on him... but he hasn't. He's had a lot of games where he was pretty meh. He's had some good ones for sure... and some bad ones... but those two were easily his best two by a very wide margin. But no one would have been questioning his play and NHL future if he'd been playing every game like that. And that's on him, and no one else.
 

Riptide

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@Riptide Muzzin and Martinez are on my list as well.

Same with Kris Russell, but I think I recall this board hating him.

Russell is an interesting player. Great skater. Undersized at 5-10, 170, and not great in his own zone. I'm just not sure his puck moving skills and skating would make up for his questionable defense. This is one of the issues moving Maatta. You look at Martinez/Muzzin, you're getting a competent defender in his own zone, as well as other abilities. With Russell you're getting a better skater, who's questionable in his own end. But he also doesn't provide the offense someone like Schultz does. Honestly, unless there was more there to tempt me... I'd probably stay away from him. I mean if we could move JJ for him, done. But Maatta - probably not. I think higher of him then that.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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There should be an all purpose Sprong thread.

God's ain truth.


In the meantime, much as I like parts of what Oleksiak's game and what he can offer for his cap hit, I don't think this town's big enough for him and Johnson and unfortunately we're in somewhat of a hole as to who wins that one.
 

Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
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Huge no to Russell, this team needs guys who tilt the ice towards the other zone.
 
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