Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Roster Freeze Ends 12:01am Dec 28

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AjaxTelamon

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How many games does he need with the same guys before we say that that isn't working? Because at a certain point, even that starts to stop being an excuse. Bottom line is that he's had stable linemates for a couple games here and there, but after the line did sweat **** all for a few games, things got changed.

As for his role and fit... this was one of the reasons I didn't want Brassard last spring, but wanted us to go after a rental in Pleks (or someone like that) and just role with Sheahan/Pleks as our 3/4Cs.

Then we got him after Rutherford decided to go full overkill. Fine, not the end of the world. But even last spring before he get hurt, the fit with Kessel was awkward at best. This year it's just been bad vs awkward, and I put a lot of that blame on Brassard himself and the game he's currently playing.

Yeah, I am with you on all of this. I do think there are landing spots for Brassard, there are teams that have multiple 3C caliber players, and need an offensive 2C. Finding one we'd be ok helping out, and with a player that we can make work with our cap is the challenge.

I'd always thought Montreal was a natural landing spot for Brass, and them hanging around that 8th spot can only help our cause. There will be a lot of pressure for Bergevin to make a move, and there should be some desire to do it well before the deadline.
 

Riptide

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Yeah, I am with you on all of this. I do think there are landing spots for Brassard, there are teams that have multiple 3C caliber players, and need an offensive 2C. Finding one we'd be ok helping out, and with a player that we can make work with our cap is the challenge.

I'd always thought Montreal was a natural landing spot for Brass, and them hanging around that 8th spot can only help our cause. There will be a lot of pressure for Bergevin to make a move, and there should be some desire to do it well before the deadline.

The issue is finding a team that is willing to give up a decent player off their roster for him, and then finding a team that is willing to give up the right player. And while Montreal could use him... I'm not so sure they'd be willing to give up Danault, who is their go to guy down the middle. He's averaging ~20 FOs a game. Kotkaniemi, the next highest is averaging ~10 a game. Peca is their #3 in FOs, and he's only averaging 5/6 a game. And while Brassard would help a lot there, I doubt it would be at the expense of Danault. Which means we're now talking futures. Not the end of the world, but it then means finding a team that wants those futures for a C we want.

Realistically if we're talking Brassard to Montreal, we're likely looking at Peca coming back as the main player (likely the only C Montreal would be willing to give up that's an NHL player). As someone who wanted us to sign him this summer, that doesn't really bother me. The issue is what is the + and does that make sense for us. And unless it's one hell of a +, I don't think it does.
 
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Andy99

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The issue is finding a team that is willing to give up a decent player off their roster for him, and then finding a team that is willing to give up the right player. And while Montreal could use him... I'm not so sure they'd be willing to give up Danault, who is their go to guy down the middle. He's averaging ~20 FOs a game. Kotkaniemi, the next highest is averaging ~10 a game. Peca is their #3 in FOs, and he's only averaging 5/6 a game. And while Brassard would help a lot there, I doubt it would be at the expense of Danault. Which means we're now talking futures. Not the end of the world, but it then means finding a team that wants those futures for a C we want.

Realistically if we're talking Brassard to Montreal, we're likely looking at Peca coming back as the main player. As someone who wanted us to sign him this summer, that doesn't really bother me. The issue is what is the + and does that make sense for us. And unless it's one hell of a +, I don't think it does.

Most good rentals cost a first, or a couple picks and/or a prospect...I really don’t see a contending team who’s interested in getting Brass to help them improve offering us a roster player that’s any good, especially one with term...maybe another rental who they’re not planning to re-sign...but I doubt it...that’s why Brass should stay until and unless it’s clear we won’t be making the POs
 

PensandCaps

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I’m not really saying I don’t want Schultz on the team. Just his play is that of a #3-4 which 5.5 for what he brings (generally mostly ES play) is a slight overpayment.

Compared to others...Schultz is nowhere near overpaid.

I'd say if he were a FA, he'd get offers of 6-6.5 per.

RD, Moves the puck very well, puts up points, fine in his own end.

What is there to hate?
 
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AjaxTelamon

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The issue is finding a team that is willing to give up a decent player off their roster for him, and then finding a team that is willing to give up the right player. And while Montreal could use him... I'm not so sure they'd be willing to give up Danault, who is their go to guy down the middle. He's averaging ~20 FOs a game. Kotkaniemi, the next highest is averaging ~10 a game. Peca is their #3 in FOs, and he's only averaging 5/6 a game. And while Brassard would help a lot there, I doubt it would be at the expense of Danault. Which means we're now talking futures. Not the end of the world, but it then means finding a team that wants those futures for a C we want.

Realistically if we're talking Brassard to Montreal, we're likely looking at Peca coming back as the main player (likely the only C Montreal would be willing to give up that's an NHL player). As someone who wanted us to sign him this summer, that doesn't really bother me. The issue is what is the + and does that make sense for us. And unless it's one hell of a +, I don't think it does.

We'd more than likely have to do a futures-based deal to send Brassard out, and then turn that around for the player we need. That's why it seems that Montreal is a landing spot, they should be be willing to cut the deal earlier.

It could be embarrassing for JR to send out Brass for a much lesser package than we sent out for him, but he seems like one of the few GM's who may be willing to do it. Of course, if we send out Brass for a 2nd and then Geno gets hurt, we've got big issues. And Geno is going to get hurt down the stretch, it always happens.

We may be best off to just see if Brass can play LW with Geno when PH is back, and if so, just go with it. I can't see Brass continuing to half-#*$ it in a contract year, in the playoffs.
 
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Shady Machine

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Last year he was basically Olli Maatta minus the PK ability and with the PP ability that means 5.5 is an overpayment no?

Who skates better, moves the puck better, and can fill in for Letang on top PP and ES in a pinch. I'd love more offense from him, but he is far from my concern on the blueline.

Honestly, it's the same argument you make with Brassard being a 3C. How much production can you expect from Schultz playing second pairing minutes, not consistent top PP time, and not always with Sid?

Obviously Brass only makes $3MM so he can't be overpaid, but you get the idea.
 

Riptide

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Most good rentals cost a first, or a couple picks and/or a prospect...I really don’t see a contending team who’s interested in getting Brass to help them improve offering us a roster player that’s any good, especially one with term...maybe another rental who they’re not planning to re-sign...but I doubt it...that’s why Brass should stay until and unless it’s clear we won’t be making the POs

The issue then arises that Brassard hasn't been very good with us. We've tried him with Kessel and with Guentzel (even together a little), and the results for the most part were not good at all. I think at this point you stick him with Malkin and figure out who's the C/W and just hope for the best... but bottom line is we either need him playing a lot better, or we need to bring in someone else.
 
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Riptide

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Who skates better, moves the puck better, and can fill in for Letang on top PP and ES in a pinch. I'd love more offense from him, but he is far from my concern on the blueline.

Honestly, it's the same argument you make with Brassard being a 3C. How much production can you expect from Schultz playing second pairing minutes, not consistent top PP time, and not always with Sid?


Obviously Brass only makes $3MM so he can't be overpaid, but you get the idea.

My expectations for him last year was ~40pts, maybe a touch less given that Letang would be getting all the prime PP/OZ chances. He played at a 35pt pace. Not quite ideal, but his D game picked up more than enough to be good with his season last year. I think if he was a UFA this summer and played the exact same this year as he did last year and put up 35pts, that he'd still be looking to get ~5.5m in FA - if not something closer to 6m. It just seems to be where salaries are going.
 
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Ryder71

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The issue then arises that Brassard hasn't been very good with us. We've tried him with Kessel and with Guentzel (even together a little), and the results for the most part were not good at all. I think at this point you stick him with Malkin and figure out who's the C/W and just hope for the best... but bottom line is we either need him playing a lot better, or we need to bring in someone else.
It depends on what you can get in return. I generally agree with your premise though but trading Brassard is a tricky proposition. His value has taken a hit and I can't see too many scenarios where by we'd garner fair/good value in moving him. Maybe in a package with one of our defensemen say OM, maybe in that scenario we could extract enough value to pursue a trade. If you move OM it might clear a path for Riikola to play as well. Again it's all about the return.
 

Riptide

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It depends on what you can get in return. I generally agree with your premise though but trading Brassard is a tricky proposition. His value has taken a hit and I can't see too many scenarios where by we'd garner fair/good value in moving him. Maybe in a package with one of our defensemen say OM, maybe in that scenario we could extract enough value to pursue a trade. If you move OM it might clear a path for Riikola to play as well. Again it's all about the return.

GMs in the NHL have a long history of not allowing recent issues from affecting a player's value too much - especially when there's no long term contract attached to them. So while I don't think we'd get the same return we paid, I think most of the reason why wold be that we already used 1 of his 2 PO runs that he was acquired for and not his play over his past 49 games. That said, I think we can still get a decent return... the question is whether that return is enough to make sense (and to pray that Crosby/Malkin stay healthy) and whether we can find a spot that works for Brassard if he can't be the 3c we wanted/expected.
 
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ChaosAgent

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The issue then arises that Brassard hasn't been very good with us. We've tried him with Kessel and with Guentzel (even together a little), and the results for the most part were not good at all. I think at this point you stick him with Malkin and figure out who's the C/W and just hope for the best... but bottom line is we either need him playing a lot better, or we need to bring in someone else.

It could bomb...but I'm intrigued by the idea of Brassard-Malkin with either Rust or Pearson. If Malkin is playing lazy defensively, may as well just let him captain the offense of a line instead. Then again, I was a fan that loved the idea of Staal-Malkin like 9 years ago so maybe this is just a blind spot of mine.

Or honestly put Malkin on Sid's wing again. At least a little bit. I know it gets bemoaned in "intelligent" Pens fans circles but I feel like Malkin/Sid have a massive GF/60 when paired together cumulatively over the years. Brassard can play 2C which is really his best position here.
 

Empoleon8771

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I don't know if Brassard needs to be traded, I just know that he's not working as the 3C here. I'd rather see him tried with Malkin and ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel as the 3rd line, but I'm not sure if you have the top-9 spot to go with that. For now, maybe something like Pearson-Malkin-Brassard as the 2nd line?
 
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Honour Over Glory

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Jan 30, 2012
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Hunwick was not our 2nd or 3rd best defenseman before his injury.

Maatta and Schultz had a great start to the year and Letang was Letang.
Hunwick was looking like a solid #5 (or poor man's #4) for a guy we thought would be a #6 at best, that concussion he got, he just never looked right after he came back. I remember because I hated that signing and was surprised how good he looked. Then he got hurt and never found his game again.
 

Gurglesons

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Who skates better, moves the puck better, and can fill in for Letang on top PP and ES in a pinch. I'd love more offense from him, but he is far from my concern on the blueline.

Honestly, it's the same argument you make with Brassard being a 3C. How much production can you expect from Schultz playing second pairing minutes, not consistent top PP time, and not always with Sid?

Obviously Brass only makes $3MM so he can't be overpaid, but you get the idea.

I’m not concerned about Schultz, but that deal was signed a year ago.

It’s a slight overpayment if he’s a 30 pt players. I don’t really mind it.
 

ZeroPucksGiven

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I don't know if Brassard needs to be traded, I just know that he's not working as the 3C here. I'd rather see him tried with Malkin and ZAR-Sheahan-Kessel as the 3rd line, but I'm not sure if you have the top-9 spot to go with that. For now, maybe something like Pearson-Malkin-Brassard as the 2nd line?

I haven't been able to watch closely, but has Brass played a ton for us at RW?

Just seems his value for us is being a decent LW. Heck maybe he fits better with Sheahan as the pivot?

Brass- Sheahan - Kessel

Perhaps Brass/Kessel would work better if they are wings?
I'm thinking of any possible scenario bc I agree that Brass as the 3C for whatever reason just isn't working here. On paper it looks fantastic but the reality has been middling
 

Riptide

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I haven't been able to watch closely, but has Brass played a ton for us at RW?

Just seems his value for us is being a decent LW. Heck maybe he fits better with Sheahan as the pivot?

When he's played with Crosby, it was Guentzel on RW.

I had suggested that early on in the season if only because Brassard should have the ability to transition into a better winger then Sheahan. Perhaps it's something that would be more acceptable today given how poorly he's played - but it was a very unpopular opinion 2 months ago.
 

Empoleon8771

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I don't think Schultz is "overpaid", although I don't think he was very good last year. His offensive numbers took a dip and while he's no longer horrible defensively, he's still definitely an OFD. He's not a Niskanen type of player here. I just don't like paying him $5.5 million when he's not getting PP1 time, because you need to be giving him top PP unit time and #3 minutes for him to be worth $5.5 million. He's not worth much less without that top unit PP time, but I'd rather not pay him fair price when you're not fully using him right.
 

AjaxTelamon

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When he's played with Crosby, it was Guentzel on RW.

I had suggested that early on in the season if only because Brassard should have the ability to transition into a better winger then Sheahan. Perhaps it's something that would be more acceptable today given how poorly he's played - but it was a very unpopular opinion 2 months ago.

It's the only way to get his ice time up to what he's accustomed to anyways. That's probably a bigger gripe from his perspective than playing wing.
 

Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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Schultz wouldn't be making 5.5m if he'd put up 35 points in his contract season instead of 50, so he's a little overpaid, but its not a huge amount north and pretty much all UFAs are overpaid by a little by the standards of the league. And if he were to start putting up 40 points, then things would be pretty fair.
 

Gurglesons

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Schultz wouldn't be making 5.5m if he'd put up 35 points in his contract season instead of 50, so he's a little overpaid, but its not a huge amount north and pretty much all UFAs are overpaid by a little by the standards of the league. And if he were to start putting up 40 points, then things would be pretty fair.

This is where I’m at. If Schultz didn’t have a career year on his way to a cup he’s likely making like 4.5-4.75.
 
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