Toggle sidebar

Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | Roster Freeze Ends 12:01am Dec 28

Status
Not open for further replies.
Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,123
79,127
Redmond, WA
NMK11 said:
As irritated as I was with the 3C debacle last year and the issues this year, the handling of the defensive roster this offseason has been the worst management decision JR has created since he got here.
Click to expand...

Meh, Rutherford has screwed up somewhat with the defense, but I think this is exaggerating it. Rutherford made poor decisions with the defense that look a lot worse due to Maatta's regression and Schultz getting seriously injured. Signing Hunwick was a dud, he gave Johnson way too long of a deal and he gave Oleksiak a risky contract, but those would be less significant if Maatta and Schultz would be healthy and playing well.
 

Pancakes

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Mar 4, 2011
26,223
18,090
Empoleon8771 said:
Meh, Rutherford has screwed up somewhat with the defense, but I think this is exaggerating it. Rutherford made poor decisions with the defense that look a lot worse due to Maatta's regression and Schultz getting seriously injured. Signing Hunwick was a dud, he gave Johnson way too long of a deal and he gave Oleksiak a risky contract, but those would be less significant if Maatta and Schultz would be healthy and playing well.
Click to expand...

JR hasn't made many super awful individual decisions, but when you take them all together it has created a mess. Committing to Oleksiak and JJ with any amount of term was bad. The Hunwick deal was horrendous because it cost us Sheary who was (in the regular season at least) a very productive player.

But yeah it looks even worse because Maatta has inexplicably decided to have his worst season ever this year, and Schultz got hurt. Taken on their own JJ and Oleksiak are passable options to have, but when you have to rely on them more because of Schultz being hurt and Maatta sucking, it's painful.

It's going to cost Riikola being on the main roster too because once Schultz comes back Riikola will be the #8 and I doubt we'll carry 8 dmen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riptide and pixiesfanyo
Empoleon8771

Empoleon8771

Registered User
Aug 25, 2015
81,123
79,127
Redmond, WA
Pancakes said:
JR hasn't made many super awful individual decisions, but when you take them all together it has created a mess. Committing to Oleksiak and JJ with any amount of term was bad. The Hunwick deal was horrendous because it cost us Sheary who was (in the regular season at least) a very productive player.

But yeah it looks even worse because Maatta has inexplicably decided to have his worst season ever this year, and Schultz got hurt. Taken on their own JJ and Oleksiak are passable options to have, but when you have to rely on them more because of Schultz being hurt and Maatta sucking, it's painful.

It's going to cost Riikola being on the main roster too because once Schultz comes back Riikola will be the #8 and I doubt we'll carry 8 dmen.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with the Oleksiak contract outside of it being risky, and it hasn't been too bad so far. Oleksiak has performed like a $2 million defenseman (he has actually been a little better IMO), so I think that deal is fine. Johnson's term was the only bad thing about those contracts, I expected something like 2 years at $1.75 million for Oleksiak and 3 years at $3 million for Johnson. Johnson got 2 extra years and Oleksiak got an extra year and a little more money than what I expected, but it wasn't that much worse than what I was expecting for them.

The biggest problem I see with signing both Oleksiak and Johnson is signing both Oleksiak and Johnson. What's the point of having both of them? Sure, they're not carbon copies of each other, but they're certainly close enough that you wonder why they bothered having both. I like having one of them because they both bring unique abilities to the defense, but you're hurting yourself if you have both.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riptide and ZeroPucksGiven

Pancakes

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Mar 4, 2011
26,223
18,090
Empoleon8771 said:
I don't have a problem with the Oleksiak contract outside of it being risky, and it hasn't been too bad so far. Oleksiak has performed like a $2 million defenseman (he has actually been a little better IMO), so I think that deal is fine. Johnson's term was the only bad thing about those contracts, I expected something like 2 years at $1.75 million for Oleksiak and 3 years at $3 million for Johnson. Johnson got 2 extra years and Oleksiak got an extra year and a little more money than what I expected, but it wasn't that much worse than what I was expecting for them.

The biggest problem I see with signing both Oleksiak and Johnson is signing both Oleksiak and Johnson. What's the point of having both of them? Sure, they're not carbon copies of each other, but they're certainly close enough that you wonder why they bothered having both. I like having one of them because they both bring unique abilities to the defense, but you're hurting yourself if you have both.
Click to expand...

JR is getting away from having good PMD, and it's hurting our team game. Our forwards are built to play fast and skilled hockey. Our defense is not built to support that kind of play. Having one or at most two guys like Maatta/JJ/Oleksiak on a team is fine, but when half your d is guys like that, it's tough.

JR at least seems to have realized it. The Pettersson deal was good because it brought in a guy who can skate and seems to at least have decent PMD potential.

If you look at our cups teams those defenses had guys with warts but those guys could all move the puck. Cole was an adequate puck mover. Daley could skate it and make outlet passes even if he couldn't defend very well. Even Lovejoy could skate if nothing else. And some of the TDL moves...Streit could move the puck. Hainsey treated it like a hand grenade and I didn't like having him at all but it worked out even though he nearly made me have a heart attack twenty times that playoffs.

In fairness, both of those teams looked better at least in part because Maatta was playing well back then. I don't know what is up with Maatta now. Maybe the league has finally gotten too fast for him. But he looks bad.
 
USMC607

USMC607

Registered User
Apr 4, 2013
4,143
2,291
It still boggles my mine how Maattas skating has actually got worse over the seasons rather than improve.

I dk what it is. But youd think a yr of power/ speed skating training would have improved his acceleration.

But it takes him ages to get up to speed and he just looks so tight in the hips not fluid at all when going from backskating to forward.

I guess it's just what it is.
 
ZeroPucksGiven

ZeroPucksGiven

Registered User
Feb 28, 2017
6,338
4,275
Empoleon8771 said:
I don't have a problem with the Oleksiak contract outside of it being risky, and it hasn't been too bad so far. Oleksiak has performed like a $2 million defenseman (he has actually been a little better IMO), so I think that deal is fine. Johnson's term was the only bad thing about those contracts, I expected something like 2 years at $1.75 million for Oleksiak and 3 years at $3 million for Johnson. Johnson got 2 extra years and Oleksiak got an extra year and a little more money than what I expected, but it wasn't that much worse than what I was expecting for them.

The biggest problem I see with signing both Oleksiak and Johnson is signing both Oleksiak and Johnson. What's the point of having both of them? Sure, they're not carbon copies of each other, but they're certainly close enough that you wonder why they bothered having both. I like having one of them because they both bring unique abilities to the defense, but you're hurting yourself if you have both.
Click to expand...

Well stated

Also, I'm not sure JR deserves much blame for the Hunwick deal...people only remember Hunwick being a disaster AFTER coming back from a concussion.

Prior to his injury, he was probably our top 2 or 3 Dmen performance-wise. It's not really JR's fault the dude got hurt and was a dumpster fire upon his return.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riptide
Jules Winnfield

Jules Winnfield

Fleurymanbad
Mar 19, 2010
8,919
1,963
Pancakes said:
JR is getting away from having good PMD, and it's hurting our team game. Our forwards are built to play fast and skilled hockey. Our defense is not built to support that kind of play. Having one or at most two guys like Maatta/JJ/Oleksiak on a team is fine, but when half your d is guys like that, it's tough.

JR at least seems to have realized it. The Pettersson deal was good because it brought in a guy who can skate and seems to at least have decent PMD potential.

If you look at our cups teams those defenses had guys with warts but those guys could all move the puck. Cole was an adequate puck mover. Daley could skate it and make outlet passes even if he couldn't defend very well. Even Lovejoy could skate if nothing else. And some of the TDL moves...Streit could move the puck. Hainsey treated it like a hand grenade and I didn't like having him at all but it worked out even though he nearly made me have a heart attack twenty times that playoffs.

In fairness, both of those teams looked better at least in part because Maatta was playing well back then. I don't know what is up with Maatta now. Maybe the league has finally gotten too fast for him. But he looks bad.
Click to expand...

This is really one of the bigger issues going on. JR isn't in sync with the type of people that will flourish in Sully's system, especially on defense. I think JR wanted people that fit the system (Domi/Skinner/Duchene) but they all fell through for one reason or another and he's completely struck out on the defensive side with total non fits IMO except for Rikola/Pettersson and the jury is out on JMFJ. This is why the Schultz injury has exposed a major hole on D because besides him and Letang they have no one else who can excel in what Sully wants.

Sully's system is ultra aggressive and requires really good transition D. Oleksiak does not fit that bill. Maatta is below average when you increase the aggressiveness over the positioning and I'll give JMFJ the benefit of the doubt since he's new. He really needs a bunch of Trevor Daley types back there or Ian Cole types that can make quick first passes, play defense good enough to get the puck and move it up to the forwards in all 3 zones, etc.

JR is also missing the young hungry legs that can be injected in the lineup and get us to start out hustling and being a forechecking nightmare again.

I don't think we need mega trades but we do need to swap some pieces on the chess board for different pieces.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Riptide, Andy99, Pancakes and 1 other person

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,400
25,269
Jules Winnfield said:
JR isn't in sync with the type of people that will flourish in Sully's system, especially on defense.
Click to expand...

I feel like most of our roster problems can be traced back to Rutherford overestimating how much IQ, speed and skill we had compared to the amount we needed and deciding he could start sacrificing it in acquisitions in the name of size.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andy99
ZeroPucksGiven

ZeroPucksGiven

Registered User
Feb 28, 2017
6,338
4,275
pixiesfanyo said:
Hunwick was not our 2nd or 3rd best defenseman before his injury.

Maatta and Schultz had a great start to the year and Letang was Letang.
Click to expand...

Yup- Letang had a VERY uneven start to that year, which is why I said 2nd/3rd best.
Thanks for supporting my viewpoint
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Latest posts

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

Top Bottom