Salary Cap: Salary Cap + Roster Building (Cap Details in First Post) | All Your Base Are Belong to Us

[Paulie Gualtieri]

No, you're limited to about $3 million at most without making any other moves. That's the problem, you're settling on your 3C because your best case scenario is getting a reclamation project like Sheahan or getting 2 years of someone like Bonino. This isn't about being greedy with the 3C, it's about the 3C being a massive hole going forward and you don't have the cap space to address it.

Yes please.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Rumours in the twitterverse suggesting Brassard will be traded before the Coyotes game.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Pettersson at $2 million, ZAR at $900k and Riikola at $750k gives you:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Simon-Malkin-Hornqvist
Pearson-XXXXX-Kessel
ZAR-XXXXX-XXXXX
XXXXX-XXXXX

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Johnson
Riikola

Murray-DeSmith

That lineup costs $77.15 million, and even assuming you go super cheap with the other 4 forward spots (let's assume you get WBS guys or veterans all at league minimum), you're at about $79.75 with your 3C spot left to fill. Realistically, it's likely going to be a little higher than that, because Blueger, Dea and Blandisi (all guys I expect to be depth players for next year) have qualifying offers over league minimum.

If the cap doesn't sizably increase, you're basically stuck with finding another 2017 Sheahan. You're at $80 million already even with moving Oleksiak and not bringing any cap back.

Yes please.

Oh yeah I'd be happy about that too, but I said "best case" for a reason. You'd have to be incredibly lucky to pull that off, that's like striking gold with getting someone like Faksa or Jarnkrok. Personally, I'd be calling Nashville right now and offering anything they wanted for Jarnkrok. Getting a 3C who's signed for like 3 years at $2.1 million would be insanely good, I'd be willing to offer a ton for him.

 

[JackFr]

Jarnkrok or Faksa or Jenner or any of those guys would be a great return. I'm hoping we don't get a Riley Nash type instead.

 

[Turin]

Rumours in the twitterverse suggesting Brassard will be traded before the Coyotes game.

This EkDick again or no

 

[Turin]

Jarnkrok or Faksa or Jenner or any of those guys would be a great return. I'm hoping we don't get a Riley Nash type instead.

I’d say Faksa is unrealistic but the Stars seem completely dumb now so.

 

[Pete Gas]

This EkDick again or no

Penguins Jesus says so

 

[Ryder71]

Rumours in the twitterverse suggesting Brassard will be traded before the Coyotes game.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was in the next hour or in the next week. I'd be very surprised if it went beyond that. The Die has been cast. Get er done JR.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Jarnkrok or Faksa or Jenner or any of those guys would be a great return. I'm hoping we don't get a Riley Nash type instead.

I'm praying for Jarnkrok because you solve your 3C spot for this year and the 3 years beyond this year, because he still has 3.5 years left at $2 million. Faksa is a RFA after next year and Jenner makes nearly 2x as much as Jarnkrok, that's why I want Jarnkrok over those two.

Jarnkrok also seems like the guy who is most realistic to acquire, since the Predators do have Sissons and Bonino having incredible seasons as bottom-6 centers.

 

[Peat]

Yeah, my whole evaluation of Bonino is based on HBK when I’m clearly citing his performance in 2017 and with Nashville as reasons he is sound defensively.

I get it, Bonino isn’t that good. Yet our management has been desperately grasping at straws for his replacement for nearly two years now burning multiple assets for it.

To no small extent because they've refused to learn the lessons from who he was here. Bonino in a top 6 style role here was a productive player. Bonino in a bottom 6 style role with bad zone starts was defensively decent (and often very good) but mediocre for production. It was very Jekyll and Hyde.

I feel like Hornqvist is much more easily replaced than Kessel right now.

You wash your mouth out.

Hornqvist is a rarer player type (elite net presences are very rare), more important to the power play, a better 5v5 player (only 2-3 points behind this season while adding a lot more) and stronger in terms of raising team intensity.

He is currently our most difficult to replace wing for next season.

No, you're limited to about $3 million at most without making any other moves. That's the problem, you're settling on your 3C because your best case scenario is getting a reclamation project like Sheahan or getting 2 years of someone like Bonino. This isn't about being greedy with the 3C, it's about the 3C being a massive hole going forward and you don't have the cap space to address it.

*shrugs* Sheahan performed as well as anybody else we've had recently in a hard defensive 3C role so I'm okay with that. If you have to spend more and shave it off the wings, then okay, sure. But the difference between a 4m 3C and a 2m 3C isn't likely to be that big that I would. Only time it might be is if/when Sid/Geno go down.

Bonino isn’t very good, but he is good. He’ll give you 30 ish points with pretty wretched Dzone deployment and will be a valuable PKer who can sometimes pop-off offensively due to decent vision and puck skills.

You cannot take HBK away from him, guys like Sheahan and Sutter ain’t producing like that no matter what. Even good, standard defensive 3Cs like Lowry aren’t dropping 19 points in a playoff run no matter the circumstance.

More like 20 ish points when buried in the Dzone than 30 ish. If it had been 30 ish I think he'd still be here. He put up a bunch of points when in the top 6.

Similar to how Cullen's pace in 16-17 on the 4th line was 22 points and his pace when away from it was 51.

 

[JackFr]

I’d say Faksa is unrealistic but the Stars seem completely dumb now so.

Oh, any of those teams would be dumb to make the trade. But ya know, fingers crossed and all.

 

[Tom Hanks]

This EkDick again or no

Theres a bunch of guys them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

You wash your mouth out.

Hornqvist is a rarer player type (elite net presences are very rare), more important to the power play, a better 5v5 player (only 2-3 points behind this season while adding a lot more) and stronger in terms of raising team intensity.

He is currently our most difficult to replace wing for next season.

I heavily contest all of these.

*shrugs* Sheahan performed as well as anybody else we've had recently in a hard defensive 3C role so I'm okay with that. If you have to spend more and shave it off the wings, then okay, sure. But the difference between a 4m 3C and a 2m 3C isn't likely to be that big that I would. Only time it might be is if/when Sid/Geno go down.

I say "best case scenario" for a reason there, because you're likely not going to hit on every Sheahan type of project that you bring in. For every Sheahan, you'll probably get 3 duds who are just washed up at that point. The difference between a $4 million 3C and a $2 million 3C is like the difference between Bonino and Sheahan, you might get a great 3C performance out of Sheahan, but you're expecting to get a great performance out of Bonino.

 

[Tom Hanks]

I'm praying for Jarnkrok because you solve your 3C spot for this year and the 3 years beyond this year, because he still has 3.5 years left at $2 million. Faksa is a RFA after next year and Jenner makes nearly 2x as much as Jarnkrok, that's why I want Jarnkrok over those two.

Jarnkrok also seems like the guy who is most realistic to acquire, since the Predators do have Sissons and Bonino having incredible seasons as bottom-6 centers.

Talk is Nashville want to add to their roster without losing any of the guys you’ve mentioned.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Talk is Nashville want to add to their roster without losing any of the guys you’ve mentioned.

I would try and see how much the Penguins would have to add on top of Brassard for Jarnkrok. Jarnkrok's contract is so good that I'm completely willing to stupidly overpay for him.

 

[NMK11]

Pettersson at $2 million, ZAR at $900k and Riikola at $750k gives you:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Simon-Malkin-Hornqvist
Pearson-XXXXX-Kessel
ZAR-XXXXX-XXXXX
XXXXX-XXXXX

Dumoulin-Letang
Maatta-Schultz
Pettersson-Johnson
Riikola

Murray-DeSmith

That lineup costs $77.15 million, and even assuming you go super cheap with the other 4 forward spots (let's assume you get WBS guys or veterans all at league minimum), you're at about $79.75 with your 3C spot left to fill. Realistically, it's likely going to be a little higher than that, because Blueger, Dea and Blandisi (all guys I expect to be depth players for next year) have qualifying offers over league minimum.

If the cap doesn't sizably increase, you're basically stuck with finding another 2017 Sheahan. You're at $80 million already even with moving Oleksiak and not bringing any cap back.



Oh yeah I'd be happy about that too, but I said "best case" for a reason. You'd have to be incredibly lucky to pull that off, that's like striking gold with getting someone like Faksa or Jarnkrok. Personally, I'd be calling Nashville right now and offering anything they wanted for Jarnkrok. Getting a 3C who's signed for like 3 years at $2.1 million would be insanely good, I'd be willing to offer a ton for him.

You've said above that moving Horny is the easiest to replace, but looking at that roster the standout is on defense. Maatta-Schultz is an expensive second pair, and if we're signing Pettersson to $2m then that's a crazy expensive bottom pair. That's where the money has to come from.

And I can't imagine we're the only team who would love a young, good 3C on their team that's signed at term for a low cap hit. If Jarnkrok is getting moved I doubt we have the picks/prospects that would get tacked on to a deal to get him here vs anywhere else.

 

[Peat]

I heavily contest all of these.

I posted up the difference for our PP with and without Horny the other day, cba to find the numbers now its about twice as successful with as without. Our g/60 on the PP last season was highest when he was on. The numbers say he's the most important and watching the difference between the PP with Horny out there camped in front of the goaltender making it 4v3 for everyone else, and the PP without, does nothing to dissuade me.

His pace for points is 25.7 in 46, just 2.3 behind Kessel. Please don't actually make me point out what Horny does 5v5 that is more valuable than those points.

I say "best case scenario" for a reason there, because you're likely not going to hit on every Sheahan type of project that you bring in. For every Sheahan, you'll probably get 3 duds who are just washed up at that point. The difference between a $4 million 3C and a $2 million 3C is like the difference between Bonino and Sheahan, you might get a great 3C performance out of Sheahan, but you're expecting to get a great performance out of Bonino.

Nope. I don't expect to get great 3C performances out of Bonino, because we didn't. We got acceptable. I'm happy to run the risk on a Sheahan again if Rutherford is.

 

[Ryder71]

I would try and see how much the Penguins would have to add on top of Brassard for Jarnkrok. Jarnkrok's contract is so good that I'm completely willing to stupidly overpay for him.

For example?

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Talk is Nashville want to add to their roster without losing any of the guys you’ve mentioned.

Which is why I rule out Nashville as a trade partner

 

[Empoleon8771]

You've said above that moving Horny is the easiest to replace, but looking at that roster the standout is on defense. Maatta-Schultz is an expensive second pair, and if we're signing Pettersson to $2m then that's a crazy expensive bottom pair. That's where the money has to come from.

And I can't imagine we're the only team who would love a young, good 3C on their team that's signed at term for a low cap hit. If Jarnkrok is getting moved I doubt we have the picks/prospects that would get tacked on to a deal to get him here vs anywhere else.

Neither the 2nd or 3rd pair are expensive relative to what other teams are paying their 2nd and 3rd pair. The defense as a whole may be expensive considering the results they're giving, but Maatta-Schultz and Pettersson-Johnson individually as pairs are not expensive. If you get rid of any of those guys, you're going to have to look outside the organization for replacements, because they don't have those internal options yet (no, Riikola is not ready to replace Maatta).

For example?

I wouldn't hesitate on adding a 1st and any of the Penguins best prospects on top of Brassard for Jarnkrok.

 

[Gurglesons]

So any chance the Wild trade Eric Staal? I'd gladly ship them Brassard and ? for him. The cap hit works well too he's only a 3.5M cap hit. It would have to be a sign and trade, i.e. brassard agrees to extend, and we add a sweetner.

Same issue as Brassard as we saw in NY when they tried to role E Staal as a 3C.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I posted up the difference for our PP with and without Horny the other day, cba to find the numbers now its about twice as successful with as without. Our g/60 on the PP last season was highest when he was on. The numbers say he's the most important and watching the difference between the PP with Horny out there camped in front of the goaltender making it 4v3 for everyone else, and the PP without, does nothing to dissuade me.

Small sample sizes of Hornqvist being out aren't an indication that Hornqvist is more important to the powerplay than Kessel is. They're both crazily important to the powerplay, but the Penguins have net front options in Guentzel and Pearson that can be effective on that powerplay unit. They have no one that can replace Kessel.

His pace for points is 25.7 in 46, just 2.3 behind Kessel. Please don't actually make me point out what Horny does 5v5 that is more valuable than those points.

In the 2 years before this year, Hornqvist had 27 ES points in 70 games in each season. Kessel last year had 50 ES points alone, and he's on pace for a similar amount this year.

Nope. I don't expect to get great 3C performances out of Bonino, because we didn't. We got acceptable. I'm happy to run the risk on a Sheahan again if Rutherford is.

Not the point of what I was saying. You know what you'll get out of Bonino and you expect that. You're lucky if you get that out of a project like Sheahan. Considering the Penguins should be all-in for winning cups, consistently gambling on guys like Sheahan to rekindle their old stuff is just a bad strategy.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, you're limited to about $3 million at most without making any other moves. That's the problem, you're settling on your 3C because your best case scenario is getting a reclamation project like Sheahan or getting 2 years of someone like Bonino. This isn't about being greedy with the 3C, it's about the 3C being a massive hole going forward and you don't have the cap space to address it.



And I think the team agrees. So who are you moving to give us more cap space to get a strong 3C? You have to take money from somewhere else to be able to afford a 3C, because right now, you have about $2 million to spend on one.



How are those combinations bad? How do they remind you of the 2014-2015 Penguins? They're exactly what the Penguins have been running with recently, but with ZAR in place of Sheahan.

Yeah. Simon and ZAR being counted on to be anything but 30 pt guys at most is scary to me.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Fake Penguins team twitter account got me for about 3 seconds. Brassard traded for Dubinsky

 

[chethejet]

GMJR moves Brassard and a D man. Not sure he moves Olli right now. But certainly someone has to go. Ruhwedel traded for a 6th doesn't create the cap room. Oleksiak seems to be the guy but his size and physical play is still valuable. Actually the Pens get Horny and Reese back and Schultz is back to or close to 100% by March that should be enough for a playoff run. Still have Blueger at center and one of Angelo, Lafferty for RH Wings for options. In any event, Riikola has to play and get needed experience if he is the D man that replaces Olli next year.