Salary Cap: Salary Cap & Roster Building | Born in a hurricane with a snake in both fists

[Andy99]

Didn't say they're selling Hoffman. Didn't not say it. But, I didn't even know he was a LW . . .

Big offer . . .

Does "big offer" mean a player from the Pens that starts with a L and ends with a g....

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Simon Crosby Hornqvist
Guentzel Malkin Rust
Sheary Rowney Kessel
Hagelin Sheahan Reaves

Rowney above Sheahan? Shirley, you can't be serious.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Okay. So many thanks KIRK.

My ideal deal for Hoffman:

Sprong
Hagelin
Filip Gustavsson(remember OTT want Oettinger at draft)
2018 1st/2nd

for

Hoffman

Yikes. Thaat's a lot for Hoffman.

 

[Shady Machine]

Someone capable of putting up 40 points if he'd be playing in a top-6 role. Think of someone like Dupuis.

40 point winger that has jam, can skate, and is solid defensively (but also not oil and water with Geno like Duper was). Sure I can trade Sheary for that. I'm not even sure anyone is trading you that player for Sheary.

 

[Shaffer]

Yikes. Thaat's a lot for Hoffman.

Well with OTT probably getting multiple offers, you’d need to top it. Thinking more about it I think I’d rather have Smith for cheap. (say Hagelin+2nd/Gustavsson)

Guentzel-Crosby-Hornqvist
Smith-Malkin-Kessel
Sheary/Simon-Sheahan-Rust
Simon/Sheary-Rowney-Reaves

 

[Empoleon8771]

40 point winger that has jam, can skate, and is solid defensively (but also not oil and water with Geno like Duper was). Sure I can trade Sheary for that. I'm not even sure anyone is trading you that player for Sheary.

Ottawa probably would do Smith for Sheary and Smith fits all of that.

 

[Shady Machine]

Ottawa probably would do Smith for Sheary and Smith fits all of that.

Smith has never scored 40 points. He's a 35 point per 82 guy over last 3 seasons (including this year), but in terms of actual production, he's put up 36 and 32 last few years.

He checks most of those boxes, but I'd still want a little more consistent production if I'm trading Sheary. I'd rather package Sheary if I have to do get the player I really want.

Of course, that's all hypothetical and assumes a better player than Smith is available. If that's the best we can get for Sheary, I'd probably hang onto him, but I understand other perspectives.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Smith has never scored 40 points. He's a 35 point per 82 guy over last 3 seasons (including this year), but in terms of actual production, he's put up 36 and 32 last few years.

He checks most of those boxes, but I'd still want a little more consistent production if I'm trading Sheary. I'd rather package Sheary if I have to do get the player I really want.

Of course, that's all hypothetical and assumes a better player than Smith is available. If that's the best we can get for Sheary, I'd probably hang onto him, but I understand other perspectives.

He also wasn't playing with Crosby or Malkin in Ottawa. I would want someone who can put up 40 points here in a top-6 role. Smith being a 35 point player per 82 games is absolutely fine because he'll likely get a boost in production from playing with Malkin and Kessel.

Assuming each player would play with Crosby or Malkin for a full season, I think you'd only be giving up around 10 points in a season if you'd swap Sheary for Smith, and you get much more physicality, much better defense and a guy who is good on faceoffs too. I'd be fine with that trade off. Over a full season, I'd put Sheary at 50-55 points if he'd play with Crosby. I'd probably say 40-45 points for Smith if he'd play all season with Malkin and Kessel.

 

[Shady Machine]

He also wasn't playing with Crosby or Malkin in Ottawa. I would want someone who can put up 40 points here in a top-6 role. Smith being a 35 point player per 82 games is absolutely fine because he'll likely get a boost in production from playing with Malkin and Kessel.

Assuming each player would play with Crosby or Malkin for a full season, I think you'd only be giving up around 10 points in a season if you'd swap Sheary for Smith, and you get much more physicality, much better defense and a guy who is good on faceoffs too. I'd be fine with that trade off. Over a full season, I'd put Sheary at 50-55 points if he'd play with Crosby. I'd probably say 40-45 points for Smith if he'd play all season with Malkin and Kessel.

I’m not paying for a perceived bump. Not enough data to prove out. Like I said, I get other perspectives but I think we’d be selling low on Sheary if Smith is the return. Right now we need more scoring wingers not less. If you get Smith and Pageau somehow without subtracting much from the roster, then I see an improvement, but swapping Sheary for Smith doesn’t excite me much.

 

[Riptide]

I agree. But I think MANY of this teams' issues are solved with an upgrade at 3C. I like Sheahan, but I think our wingers will play better when they have good C's giving them the puck.

If we trade for ANYTHING but a 3C I'm going to not be happy. Getting that other C is going to make a significant difference

So Crosby will be better then? I just don't see it. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong, but I'm extremely skeptical.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

Yikes. Thaat's a lot for Hoffman.

Is the deal for a 1st and a 2nd or just one or the other? I think the former is a little too rich, the latter pretty fair. They get a 1st rounder which more than offsets having to take Hagelin, a highly rated goalie prospect which they could use, and a prospect that could be as good as Hoffman long term.

I'd say it's a little lopsided in our favor if they weren't trying to save money, but if that's the aim then that seems like a perfectly reasonable trade to me.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

So Crosby will be better then? I just don't see it. Hopefully I'll be proved wrong, but I'm extremely skeptical.

It's not about Crosby being "better". It's about shifting the burden from him and Geno to carry this team and to get some secondary scoring.

How many times have we said: we won...no surprised that Sid/Geno/Letang played well!

Just like the script was in 2016, its depth that wins the Championships. Superstars aren't going to always bring their A+ game for 82 plus games. Can you imagine how Sid feels before games with this roster?
- "Well our 4th line sure ain't gonna score...hope they don't give one up"
-"Lovely...I get this other teams' #1 D pairing again"
-"We better score on this PP because we are losing 5 vs 5"

I kinda feel bad for the dude. Shades of 2010 - 2015

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

40 point winger that has jam, can skate, and is solid defensively (but also not oil and water with Geno like Duper was). Sure I can trade Sheary for that. I'm not even sure anyone is trading you that player for Sheary.

And who is a LW. I'm not sure Ottawa has that.

 

[Rakell67]

Rowney above Sheahan? Shirley, you can't be serious.

I am serious, and don’t call me Shirley!
Trying to balance the lines. All Rowney has to do on that line is faceoffs and provide a physical and defensive conscious. Kessel is the playmaker.

 

[Rakell67]

Ryan at $5.4mil...I could maybe stomach that but he's signed for 5 more years and he's already 30. Certainly not known for jets but he's the kind of "hard to play against" player we'd want come playoff time. I actually really liked his performance in the playoffs.

That said, I can't see Melnyk being okay eating 1.875mil for 5 years (technically 4 and some change but still). Attaching him to any deal kills their ability to get those picks back.

Brassard+Ryan (25%)...Sheary+Hagelin+1st? We'd then have to send Sheahan out for ideally a pick coming back.

Jake-Sid-Ryan
Rust-Malkin-Kessel
Sprong-Brassard-Hornqvist
Simon-Rowney-Archibald



Three-ways are hard and less fun than one might think to put together and execute

Well that’s a more thought out answer than my girlfriend gave me.

 

[Riptide]

It's not about Crosby being "better". It's about shifting the burden from him and Geno to carry this team and to get some secondary scoring.

How many times have we said: we won...no surprised that Sid/Geno/Letang played well!

Just like the script was in 2016, its depth that wins the Championships. Superstars aren't going to always bring their A+ game for 82 plus games. Can you imagine how Sid feels before games with this roster?
- "Well our 4th line sure ain't gonna score...hope they don't give one up"
-"Lovely...I get this other teams' #1 D pairing again"
-"We better score on this PP because we are losing 5 vs 5"

I kinda feel bad for the dude. Shades of 2010 - 2015

We've played 34 games. Has Crosby even brought his "A+" game for half of them? I doubt it. Forget the A+... has he even brought his A game for half? I doubt that as well.

Crosby has gotten the other team's #1D pairing ever since he played in the league. Even in 16 he faced that - it was Malkin/HBK that teams struggled with how to decide who got the 2nd pairing.

And Crosby sure as shit needs to be better. Not only with his ES production (30% increase at minimum), but with his overall play. He needs to stop doing his little drop pass and start shooting more and going to the slot more. It's like he completely got away from where and how he was having success the last 2 years.

Bringing in a better 3C won't change either of those things.

 

[Shady Machine]

We've played 34 games. Has Crosby even brought his "A+" game for half of them? I doubt it. Forget the A+... has he even brought his A game for half? I doubt that as well.

Crosby has gotten the other team's #1D pairing ever since he played in the league. Even in 16 he faced that - it was Malkin/HBK that teams struggled with how to decide who got the 2nd pairing.

And Crosby sure as **** needs to be better. Not only with his ES production (30% increase at minimum), but with his overall play. He needs to stop doing his little drop pass and start shooting more and going to the slot more. It's like he completely got away from where and how he was having success the last 2 years.

Bringing in a better 3C won't change either of those things.

1. I think you are being a little hard on Crosby. Yes he needs to be better, but the dude is being asked to carry too much of a load coming off 2 Cup seasons + World Cup.

2. Getting more center depth lessens the ice time load and match up expectations for Sid. Giving him easier minutes during the grind of December through February can only help.

Sid averaging 1:03 more per game this year vs last year. That might not seem super material, but after 2 long seasons, it can make a difference.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

We've played 34 games. Has Crosby even brought his "A+" game for half of them? I doubt it. Forget the A+... has he even brought his A game for half? I doubt that as well.

Crosby has gotten the other team's #1D pairing ever since he played in the league. Even in 16 he faced that - it was Malkin/HBK that teams struggled with how to decide who got the 2nd pairing.

And Crosby sure as **** needs to be better. Not only with his ES production (30% increase at minimum), but with his overall play. He needs to stop doing his little drop pass and start shooting more and going to the slot more. It's like he completely got away from where and how he was having success the last 2 years.

Bringing in a better 3C won't change either of those things.

Not going to argue, bc I agree Crosby hasn't elevated his game this season. But it's hard to go all out when you've done what he's done over the past 2 seasons.

Many hands make light work. Right now it's Sid Geno Kessel doing all the shoveling while we got a bunch of their teammates shoveling with toothpicks

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Does "big offer" mean a player from the Pens that starts with a L and ends with a g....

Letang for Landeskog.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

What number would Hoffman wear though?

 

[Shady Machine]

What number would Hoffman wear though?

That would actually be a pretty good test to see if the team is planning to retire #68.

 

[Tom Hanks]

If fatigue is the issue, I'm not sure a "big shakeup" changes anything. And personally I don't think it is. I don't think it's overall fatigue from the last 2 seasons. And I do not think it's from playing too many minutes this season. So while if there's ways to improve the team that are not stupidly expensive then I'd do so... but I'd be careful going after rentals, as I do not think it will change a lot overall for us.

Yeah it’s hard to know what is having an impact on which and how much. The guys on the inside wouldn’t even know for sure either.

Fatigue can be managed but our roster makes that harder. We are an easier team to match up against now too. The opposition D is getting an easier time because if they are on the ice against our bottom 6 those are easier minutes so they likely play better against our top 6 when they are in the ice with them than in previous years.

I’m sure the 3C spot has been a tough market but it’s not our only hole to fill. I think JR may have put the other stuff on hold until that’s sorted but leaving that this long is also hurting us.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

What number would Hoffman wear though?

That would actually be a pretty good test to see if the team is planning to retire #68.

He has worn 27, 19, 70 and 10 in various junior and minor pro leagues. I'm sure 68 was assigned to him like 59 was assigned to Guentzel. He's always worn 20 or 44 before.

 

[SEALBound]

He has worn 27, 19, 70 and 10 in various junior and minor pro leagues. I'm sure 68 was assigned to him like 59 was assigned to Guentzel. He's always worn 20 or 44 before.

He did say it was assigned to him when there was rumblings about him having it. Not like Ho-Sang who chose 66.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Brodie in Calgary was assigned #66 and people freaked out, it's just a number. The mere fact #99 is retired league wide is one of the dumbest things in the NHL.