Sakic Vs Yzerman?

[sidewayzLEAFS]

both had great careers and battled eachother for the cup many years, both have won multiple stanley cup, captained their teams and had success playing for canada in international play

GP G A PTS

sakic 1378 625 1016 1641

yzerman 1514 692 1063 1755


stats show its close but stevie may have a slight edge,
in the end i would have to go with yzerman

Click to read more...

 

[Dark Shadows]

My friend, I understand you are new here, and welcome.

First and foremost, you will find that some of us set our watches by this topic. It comes up on this forum at least once every 2 months, and generally always comes out razor close.

Ill just cut and paste 2 of the better analysis from 2 of the better posters for you.

These are two of the most similar and genuinely likable elite players in NHL history. It’s close but I give the edge to Sakic.

Offense:
- Sakic was an elite offensive player for a longer period of time (he was a top ten scorer ten times in his career, spanning 1990 to 2007; compared to six top-ten finishes for Yzerman from 1989 to 2000).
- Let’s eliminate Gretzky and Lemieux, and their linemates, for fairness. In this case Yzerman would have won one Art Ross (1989); he would have been in the top five four times (’89, ’90, ’92, ’93). However, by the same logic, Sakic would have won two Art Ross trophies (’96 and ’01) and he would have been in the top five in scoring seven times (’91, ’95, ’96, ’99, ’01, ’02, ’04).
- Adjusted for era Yzerman has scored 10 more points than Sakic in 161 additional games.
- Both players proved they could score with virtually no help (Yzerman’s 65 goal, 155 point season in 1989, when he turned Gerard Gallant into an all-star; Sakic finishing in the top ten in scoring twice in a row on teams that were 12-61-7 and 16-50-14.

Defense:
- Having watched both play, I’d say that Yzerman was better defensively but Sakic was better able to play well defensively while maintaining a high level of offense. The numbers confirm this.
- Yzerman clearly has the better defensive peak. He won a Selke trophy and has more top ten finishes in Selke voting (’96, ’98, ’99, ’00, ’01 vs ’00, ’01, ’02).
- Still, Sakic was more balanced. Yzerman had one huge year where he won the Selke and finished 10th in scoring (2000) but otherwise his offensive and defensive peaks were quite distinct. Four times in five years years Sakic demonstrated outstanding all-around play (8th in Selke voting & 10th in scoring in 2000; 2nd in Selke voting & 2nd in scoring in 2001; 9th in Selke voting & 5th in scoring in 2002; 15th in Selke voting and 2nd in scoring in 2004).

Playoffs:
- Both players won one Conn Smythe trophy; both were serious candidates in one other year (Sakic in ’01, Yzerman in ’02)
- Sakic was clearly the better goal-scorer in the playoffs (twice leading the playoffs in goal-scoring vs never); Sakic has 14 more goals in 24 fewer games; overall Sakic has 3 more points in 24 fewer games
- Sakic led his team in scoring in the playoffs 8/13 times; Yzerman led his team in scoring 10/20 times (though, in fairness, Yzerman did play more past his prime and/or on stronger teams).
- In terms of international play, Sakic has a better peak (tournament MVP at the 2002 Olympics with a stunning 4-point performance in the gold medal game; 3rd in scoring at both the '02 Olympics and '04 World Cup of Hockey); but he also had more lows (uncharacteristically bitter after being cut from the '91 Canada Cup; disappointing performance at '06 Olympics as captain).

Awards:
- Sakic has 1 Hart trophy vs 0 for Yzerman. However, Yzerman was 3rd in Hart voting behind Gretzky and Lemieux in ’89, so they should be considered equal by this stat.
- Sakic has six years as a Hart finalist (’91, ’96, ’01, ’02, ’04,’ 07) versus seven for Yzerman (’87, ’88, ’89,’ 90, ’92, ’93, ’00). Advantage Yzerman.
- Sakic has 3 years as a first-team all-star versus 1 year for Yzerman. However Yzerman was 3rd behind Gretzky and Lemieux in ’89. Sakic still gets the edge here.
- In total, removing Gretzky and Lemieux, Sakic finished 5th or higher in all-star voting 10 times (’91, ’95, ’96, ’97, ’99, ’00, ’01, ’02, ’04, ’07). Yzerman finished 5th or higher in all-star voting 7 times (’88, ’89, ’90, ’91, ’92, ’93, ’00). Advantage Sakic.

Intangibles:
- Both players are known as outstanding leaders. Yzerman probably gets the edge here though it’s really tough to evaluate leadership unless you’re in the dressing room.

Conclusion:
- I give Sakic the edge on the basis of his offense, playoff performance, and awards. Still, these are two of the most similar players of all-time.

Seventieslord's Definitive Objective Comparison and Analysis of the careers of Joe Sakic and Steve Yzerman

Sakic vs. Yzerman is bound to be a popular debate in the upcoming years. I thought of a multitude of categories to compare Yzerman and Sakic in, and naturally some are more important than others, but I wanted to be as complete as possible. Where applicable, I have accounted for the unfair interference of the generational talents Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux. This did affect Yzerman's place in hockey's pecking order, but, make no mistake - it affected Sakic too.


Offense, Regular Season:

Goal-scoring: The only way to fairly judge a player's goal-scoring prowess across history, is to look at where he ranked in the league season to season. Generally I speak the language of top-10 finishes, but since I wanted to be complete, I have extended the study to include all finishes in the top-15. So, here are each players' top-15 finishes in goals:

Yzerman: 2, 2, 3, 6, 6, 6, 11.
Sakic: 2, 5, 6, 6, 10, 15.

I like to eliminate the identical finishes to break down who did better. So, remove a 2 and two 6's from each side and you're left with:

Yzerman: 2, 3, 6, 11.
Sakic: 5, 10, 15.

Safe to say that Yzerman has been a better goal-scorer over time.

If you remove Gretzky and Lemieux from the equation and pretend they never existed, here's where they would have placed:

Yzerman: 2, 2, 2, 5, 5, 6, 11.
Sakic: 2, 4, 6, 6, 10, 14.

Playmaking: Same thing. Top-15 finishes:

Yzerman: 3, 3, 7, 7, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15.
Sakic: 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 11, 12.

Eliminating equal finishes (3, 3, 11), we're left with:

Yzerman: 7, 7, 10, 13, 14, 15.
Sakic: 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, 12.

Sakic is definitely the superior playmaker.

For fun, let's eliminate the freaks of nature again.

Yzerman: 1, 1, 6, 6, 9, 10, 12, 13, 14.
Sakic: 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 10, 10, 10, 15.

Yzerman could have led the NHL in assists twice if Gretz and Mario ceased to exist. But even with that, Sakic has him beaten 6-2 in top-5's and 11-6 in top-10's.

Point production:

Yzerman: 3, 3, 4, 7, 7, 10, 13.
Sakic: 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 10, 14.

Eliminating the identicals (3, 4, 10), we're left with:

Yzerman: 3, 7, 7, 13.
Sakic: 2, 2, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 14.

Easy edge to Sakic.

Eliminating Gretz and Lemieux:

Yzerman: 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 10, 11.
Sakic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8, 12.

I haven't done the eliminations at this stage in goals and assists, but let's eliminate the identical 1, 2, 3, and 5.

Yzerman: 6, 10, 11.
Sakic: 4, 5, 5, 5, 8, 8, 12.

You could say Yzerman's 6, 10, 11 could cancel out Sakic's 8, 8, 12, basically meaning Sakic has done everything Yzerman has done, PLUS 4th, 5th, 5th, and 5th place points finishes, even after accounting for Gretzky and Lemieux.

*If you're really perceptive, you might have noticed Sakic was credited with a scoring title with Gretzky and Lemieux eliminated, though he never finished as runner-up to either of them. The reason is Mario Lemieux's 2000-01 comeback. Everyone knows that Mario propelled Jagr to first in the scoring race. Jagr was languishing in mediocrity before Mario came back, and it's widely accepted that Lemieux earned an assist on that Art Ross. No Lemieux = Art Ross for Sakic.


Longevity of regular season offense:

Simple calculation - number of seasons between each player's first and last top-10 finish in goals, assists and points, as well as top-5 finishes.

Yzerman: Top-10 in goals over a span of 6 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in goals over a span of 14 seasons

Yzerman: Top-10 in assists over a span of 11 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in assists over a span of 15 seasons

Yzerman: Top-10 in points over a span of 12 seasons
Sakic: Top-10 in points over a span of 17 seasons

Yzerman: Top-5 in goals over a span of 3 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in goals over a span of 6 seasons

Yzerman: Top-5 in assists over a span of 9 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in assists over a span of 10 seasons

Yzerman: Top-5 in points over a span of 5 seasons
Sakic: Top-5 in points over a span of 10 seasons

Sakic's span is greater than Yzerman's in all six comparisons.


Offense, Playoffs

There will be no elimination of Gretzky and Lemieux for two reasons: 1) their effect on these two players' playoff rankings are fairly minimal, and 2) You have to advance to place high in the playoff rankings, and Gretzky and Lemieux are no longer individuals once the playoffs begin - it's still up to their teams to advance far enough for them to make the leaderboard.

Goal-scoring:

As usual, top-15 finishes:

Yzerman: 4, 8, 12, 12, 12.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 8, 10, 10, 12.

For lack of a better term, Sakic PWNS yzerman in this category. After eliminating 4, 8, and 12 from each side, we're left with:

Yzerman: 12, 12.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 10, 10.

Sakic is a FAR more accomplished playoff goal-scorer, completely turning the tables on the regular season gap, and then some.

Playmaking:

Yzerman: 1, 2, 7, 8, 15.
Sakic: 1, 2, 3, 4, 8.

Again, another clear victory for Sakic, because as you can see, after eliminating 1, 2, and 8:

Yzerman: 7, 15.
Sakic: 3, 4.

Point Production:

Yzerman: 1, 2, 6, 12, 12, 13.
Sakic: 1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 14.

Another clear victory for Sakic. After eliminating 1 and 2:

Yzerman: 6, 12, 12, 13.
Sakic: 1, 3, 4, 14.

Leading team in playoff goals or points:

You can't advance every single season. To be as fair as possible, I counted the number of times each player led (or tied for the lead) in playoff goals or points on their team.

Yzerman led his team in playoff goals 7 times, and points 9 times.
Sakic led his team in playoff goals 7 times, and points 8 times.

In other words, Yzerman did it one more time, but his total is inflated by two seasons (1984 and 1985) in which he led the Wings in both goals and points in 3 and 4-game preliminary round losses. Given that, I'm calling this even.

Conclusion: Sakic's playoff offense has beaten that of Yzerman at every turn.


Career Per-Game Averages, Regular Season and Playoffs:

Normally I don't bother with stuff like this, but these two players are similar in style and played careers that overlapped by 17 seasons.

Regular season GPG, APG, PPG:

Yzerman: .46 .70 1.16
Sakic: .45 .74 1.19

Sakic has Yzerman beaten in points and assists, and is right with him in goals. However, there is more to it than that. The years in which their careers did not overlap show an even greater difference. Yzerman played 5 seasons in the wide-open 1980's before Sakic arrived. NHL goal scoring was at 3.79 GPG during these 5 years. In the three seasons (including this year) that Sakic has played in an Yzerman-less NHL, goal scoring has been at 2.79 GPG. Sakic is clearly at a disadvantage because of eras, but still comes out on top.

Playoff GPG, APG, PPG:

Yzerman: .36 .58 .94
Sakic: .49 .60 1.09

Sakic has Yzerman beaten in all three categories in the playoffs. This is an extremely decisive edge too, when you consider that Sakic played his first playoff game in 1993 when the wide-open era was coming to an end. By this time Yzerman had played in 50 playoff games, scoring 55 points from 1984-1992. He scored 130 in his final 146 playoff games (0.89), while Sakic scored 178 in 162 games during that same time (1.10).

Easy edge to Sakic, before you consider disrepancies due to era.


Clutch play:

For obvious reasons, only individual playoff achievements should count here. For simplicity, all I can really do is look at GWG and OTG.

- Yzerman has 12 career playoff GWG in 196 GP. (.06/GP)
- Sakic has 19 career playoff GWG in 172 GP. (.11/GP)

In other words, Sakic has been nearly twice as likely to score the game winner in his playoff games. Sakic is 4th all-time in playoff GWG.

- Yzerman has 1 career playoff OT goal.
- Sakic has 8 career playoff OT goals, which is two more than anyone else has in NHL history.

Easy edge to Sakic.


Clean Play:

Both these guys play a clean, hard game. The fewer penalties you take, the more often you can be on the ice helping your team and the less often your team has to kill a penalty.

Yzerman: .61 PIM/GP.
Sakic: .45 PIM/GP.

That works out to 50 and 37 PIM per 82 games. It's not a huge difference, but this means that in an average season, Detroit had to kill 6-7 more Yzerman penalties than Quebec/Colorado had to to for Sakic.

Edge to Sakic, though I admit it is small.


Durability:

I calculated durability in three ways: Percentage of games missed, percentage of games missed in 12 prime years, and percentage of playoff games missed.

% of games missed in career:

Yzerman: 13.8%
Sakic: 10.8%

% of games missed in 12 prime years (age 21 through 32)

Yzerman: 6%
Sakic: 9%

% of playoff games missed in career:

Yzerman: 13.7% (31 games)
Sakic 1.7% (3 games)

Sakic takes two of three categories, including the most important one.


Awards:

Looking simply at who won what and who didn't, is too simplistic. Since we have access to all old voting records for awards, we can take a look at how these guys did over the years. I'll go over the three awards most pertinent to these two players: The Hart Trophy as league MVP, The Selke Trophy as the top defensive forward, and the postseason All-Star Team position at Centre.

Both players have a well-deserved Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP, and a Lester Pearson award as the players' MVP. They all cancel eachother out. Since voting records are not available for these awards, we will never know who was a runner-up or finalist for these awards and how many times. So the discussion about these awards ends here.

Hart:

Here are each players' Hart Trophy voting record:

Yzerman: 3, 4, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 14, 14, 15.

Quite close. Sakic is the only one to have won the award. Eliminating identical finishes 7, 7, 7, 8, you're left with:

Yzerman: 3, 4, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 7, 14, 14, 15.

Amazingly close. But Yzerman's prime was blocked by the primes of the freaks. Eliminate Gretzky and Lemieux and you've got:

Yzerman: 1, 2, 5, 6, 6, 7, 8, 13.
Sakic: 1, 6, 6, 7, 7, 8, 13, 14, 15.

Eliminate identical finishes 1, 6, 6, 7, 8, 13, and you're left with:

Yzerman: 2, 5.
Sakic: 7, 14, 15.

Two high finishes versus three moderate finishes. A very tight race, to be sure. I'd give a slight edge to Yzerman, though.

Selke:

Yzerman: 1, 3, 4, 5, 9, 11.
Sakic: 2, 9, 10, 13, 15, 15.

I'm not going to eliminate identicals here becauase then we'd be just eliminating a 9. Both guys have six top-15 finishes, but Yzerman has five top-10s to Sakic's three, and four top-5's to Sakic's 1. Plus he won the Selke and Sakic didn't. Definite edge in Selke voting goes to Yzerman.

All-Star team: A 1 or a 2 means he was actually voted to the 1st or 2nd all-star team, a 3-10 means he earned votes but was not top-2.

Yzerman: 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 10.
Sakic: 1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 6, 7.

Eliminate the 1, 3, 3, 4, 4, and 6, and you're left with:

Yzerman: 5, 6, 10.
Sakic: 1, 1, 4, 4, 7.

Looks to be an easy edge for Yzerman. Two more top-15s, Three more top-10s, and three more top-5s, plus three berths on the first team. But, remember there were healthy freaks back then and we must consider that. Eliminating The Great one and Le Magnifique:

Yzerman: 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9.
Sakic: 1, 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6.

After eliminating identicals again, (1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6), we have:

Yzerman: 2, 9.
Sakic: 1, 3, 4, 4.

Sakic has a clear edge on Yzerman in All-Star team voting even after completely eliminating the Gretzky/Lemieux effect.


Team Success:

We can't hold them entirely responsible for their team's failures or completely anoint them their team's sole reason for victory. But, it's clear that these two greats had a lot to do with their teams' successes over the years. Early in their careers, they were not the captain of their team and I think it's only fair that we limit this to seasons after they became captains. A captain should be able to provide the leadership to prevent them from losing a series they should win, and of course getting them through a series that they had no business winning would be nice too. A "better" team is one that had 10+ points more than Sakic/Yzerman's team, a "worse" team is one that had 10+ points less. All other teams are "even" teams.

Yzerman's playoff series W/L record

vs. Better Teams: 1-3 (.250)
vs. Even Teams: 6-3 (.667)
vs. Worse Teams: 18-9 (.667) - Failures in 89, 94, 95, 96, 00, 01, 03, 04, 06.
Total: 26-15 (.634)

Sakic's playoff series W/L record

vs. Better Teams: 3-3 (.500)
vs. Even Teams: 7-4 (.636)
vs. Worse Teams: 9-4 (.692) - Failures in 95, 97, 98, 03.
Total: 19-11 (.633)

Very, very similar. What I see a difference in, is that Sakic has been able to lift his team to victory three times over teams Colorado shouldn't have beaten, while Yzerman could only do this once. Yzerman's wings also choked against an inferior team 9 times while Sakic's Nords/Avs choked just 4 times.

Head To Head:

What about head to head matchups between these players? Detroit and Colorado met five times in the playoffs - 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, and 2002. Colorado won 3 of these 5 matchups, and 17 of the 30 games. In addition, Detroit's regular season point differential versus Colorado in these five seasons was +27, -13, -8, +12, and +17, for an average of +8. Detroit was favoured to win more often, but won less often. For winning more often when being expected to win less often, Sakic gets the edge.

Cups/Finals appearances:

Let's not forget two other simple things, though - Yzerman has been to the finals two more times than Sakic, and won the cup one more time than Sakic.

Playing on Poor Teams:

Both players played on good teams for the majority of their careers. However, for short portions of ther careers, mostly at the beginning, Sakic and Yzerman had the misfortune of playing on some bad squads. Each played four seasons where their team had 70 points or less. For Sakic, it was his first four seasons. For Yzerman, it was his first three seasons and 1990. Sakic's Nordiques' point totals were 61, 31, 46, and 52. Yzerman's wings had 69, 66, 40, and 70.

During these periods of futility, both players were their team's main bright spot. Who shone more while languishing on a bad team?

Yzerman:
1984: Did not place top-15 in anything.
1985: 13th in assists.
1986: Did not place top-15 in anything. (was injured for 29 games but his per-game averages wouldn't have put him near the leaderboard either way)
1990: 2nd in goals, 10th in assists, 3rd in points.

Sakic:
1989: Did not place top-15 in anything.
1990: 12th in assists, 10th in points.
1991: 6th in goals, 11th in assists, 6th in points.
1992: 9th in assists, 14th in points despite missing 11 games.

Conclusion: Sakic had 7 top-15 finishes in the three categories during his team's four worst years. Yzerman had 4. Sakic's Nordiques averaged 49 points in these seasons - Yzerman's wings averaged 61. Sakic clearly did better while on worse teams.


International Play:

Don't forget international play. Half the games are elimination games, and every player on the ice is highly skilled. Let's look at their individual and team successes.

Non-Best on Best:

Individual:

Yzerman: 44 Pts in 35 games in 4 tournaments. Top Forward and 1st All-Star Team of 1990 World Championships.
Sakic: 22 Pts in 25 games in 3 tournaments. No individual accolades.

Team:

Yzerman: WJC Bronze (1983), World Championship Bronze, Bronze, Gold (1985, 1989, 1990)
Sakic: World Championship Bronze, Gold (1991, 1994)

Best-On-Best:

Individual:

Yzerman: 11 Pts in 22 games in 4 tournaments. No individual accolades.
Sakic: 23 points in 30 games in 5 tournaments. Top forward and 1st All-Star Team of 2002 Olympics.

Team:

Yzerman: 1997 World Cup Silver, 2002 Olympic Gold.
Sakic: 1997 World Cup Silver, 2002 Olympic Gold, 2004 World Cup Gold.

Summary: Yzerman appears better in the small tournaments - He played in one more tournament, had more games, more points, more points per game, an individual accolade, and four medals to Sakic's two. Sakic, likewise, has the edge in best-on-best games. More tournaments, more games, more points, more points per game, was the Olympic MVP, and has one more team title than Yzerman. Given that the best-on-best tournaments are, oh, I'd say, about 10 times as important as the other tournaments, I have to give Sakic the edge here.


Intangibles:

Basically, don't give me this nonsense. Intangibles aren't nonsense; they're real. But show me a quote about Joe Sakic's intestinal fortitude, winning attitude, desire, heart, will to win, team-first philosophy, and I can find a quote about Yzerman that says the same thing. Like the Smythe and Pearson, they cancel eachother out. Trying to claim one is better than the other in this area is about as effective as peeing up a rope.


Summary:

Regular season Goal-scoring: Advantage: Yzerman.
Regular season Playmaking: Advantage: Sakic.
Regular season Point Production: Advantage: Sakic.
Longevity of regular season offense: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff goal-scoring: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff playmaking: Advantage: Sakic.
Playoff point production: Advantage: Sakic.
Leading team in playoff goals/points: Even.
Career regular season per-game averages: Advantage: Sakic.
Career playoff per-game averages: Advantage: Sakic.
Clutch play: Advantage: Sakic.
Clean Play: Advantage: Sakic.
Durability: Advantage: Sakic.
Hart Record: Advantage: Yzerman.
Selke Record: Advantage: Yzerman.
All-Star Team Record: Advantage: Sakic.
Total Playoff series W/L record: Even.
Pulling off playoff upsets: Advantage: Sakic.
Not being upset by inferior teams: Advantage: Sakic
Head to head matchups: Advantage: Sakic
Cups and Finals appearances: Advantage: Yzerman
International Play: Advantage: Sakic.
Intangibles: Even.

Sakic's decisive wins:
Clutch play
Regular season point production
Regular season playmaking
Longevity of regular season offense
Playoff goal-scoring
Playoff playmaking
Playoff point production
Career playoff per-game averages
All-Star Team Record
Head to head matchups
Playing on poor teams

Sakic's narrow wins:
Clean Play
Durability
International Play
Career regular season per-game averages
Pulling off playoff upsets
Not being upset by inferior teams

Draws:
Leading team in playoff goals/points
Intangibles
Total Playoff series W/L record

Yzerman's narrow wins:
Regular season Goal-scoring
Hart Record
Cups and finals appearances

Yzerman's decisive win:
Selke record


Conclusion:

Joe Sakic has had a career that is slightly yet decidedly and clearly better than that of Steve Yzerman. He scored wins in 17 of the 24 categories analyzed (11 decisively), while Yzerman won four categories, one decisively. Three categories were declared draws. keep in mind that some categories are much more important than others; however, Sakic wins most of the most important ones.

 

[sidewayzLEAFS]

nice observation and breakdown...they defiantely are two of the most similar players of all time and id take either of them on my team....being an avs fans i have seen more of sakic then yzerman but i still have seen not only yzerman's top plays but also his gameplay....i just based my decision as if i HAD to choose one for my team, but in teh end no decision is wrong when your talking about players who can consistenly dominate at both ends of the rink they way these two did for the better part of their stellar careers.

 

[sidewayzLEAFS]

also, justwondering how sakic won the head to head play between him a yzerman in which the wings won just as much if not more of the battles in the regular season and playoffs??

 

[Big Phil]

also, justwondering how sakic won the head to head play between him a yzerman in which the wings won just as much if not more of the battles in the regular season and playoffs??

Well on paper the Wings won 3 Cups with Yzerman and the Avs won two with Sakic. Ideally you give the edge to Yzerman but when you look closer it isn't so clear cut.

Avs beat Detroit ('96, '99, '00)
Detroit beat Avs ('97, '02)

When the chips were down in head to head matches Sakic has the edge, even though there are other things to factor into as well.

Look, I find these two guys to be the most grueling comparison. One second you'll pick one guy and the other the opposite. There is just so much to like about both of these guys that you can't win either way. I mean Sakic won a Hart in '01, Yzerman won the Pearson in '89. Both won the Conn Smythe. Both could have won another Smythe arguably (and maybe should have). It's close.

 

[krooky]

In the last year or so I have thought about this very topic a fair bit and posed the question to some of my friends. My thoughts were that the definitive answer was Yzerman and I thought that most people would say as much but I thought the discrepancy between the two is closer than most people think. I came too find that the anwers I was getting were pretty split down the middle. personally I give the edge to Yzerman but they were both ridiculously talented players who in the day of the Terrell Owens and Sean Avery bufoonery of pro sport can be really proud of the way they played and conducted themselves.

 

[sidewayzLEAFS]

regular season (G A PTS)


yzerman best seasons (88/89 season) 65 90 155
(92/93 season) 58 79 137


sakic best seasons (95/96 season) 51 69 120
(00/01 season) 54 64 118





playoffs (G A PTS)

yzerman best seasons (97/98) 6 18 24
(01/02) 6 17 23


sakic best seasons (95/96) 18 16 34
(00/01) 13 13 26



IM AM JUST DISPLAYING THE STATS OF THE BEST SEASON FOR THESE LEGENDS. ALTHOUGH, THESE STATS DO NOT TOTALLY JUSTIFY SAKIC AND YZERMAN AS THEY DID SO MUCH MORE THAN SCORE. HOWEVER, STEVIE HAD LIMITED PLAYOFF SUCCESS IN ARGUABLY HIS BEST TWO REGULAR SEASONS and so i included his best playoff seasons from diff years.
ENJOY

 

[greatgazoo]

sakic: 188 pts in 172 playoff games 1.09ppg and 6 times top 5 scoring regular season
steve: 185 pts in 196 playoff games .943ppg and 3 times top 5 scoring regular season

Edge: Sakic

 

[seventieslord]

Thanks for posting my study Jekyll, I'd have done the exact same thing.

 

[Henrik68]

I would take Yzerman over Sakic.

 

[Padan]

I've always felt that Yzerman became a little overrated when he retired, since he arguably is the most beloved and well-respected player of all-time among fans.

 

[sidewayzLEAFS]

well,now that burnaby joe is retired the same may happen to him as he is also so respected and loved...

 

[ashenhigh]

I am too biased for this thread :x



BUT!



Steve Yzerman was my hero....


Sakic might have the better numbers, but Yzerman has the hearts of everyone.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Sakic was awesome. Yzerman was better.

 

[deanosaur]

At the end of the day..
come on now is there really a wrong choice?

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Good job on the stats breakdown, but I'll skip all that and use my own two eyes, since I saw both play from start to finish.

Both Sakic and Yzerman arrived with a lot of hype, but Sakic had far less pressure on him than Yzerman. Sakic came to Quebec (wearing 88) on the downside of the franchise, but they still had Goulet and Statsny -- arguably two of the top 10 offensive players of the decade. Although Sakic only played with them on the PP, they are still pretty good mentors in a relatively pressure-free situation in QC.

Yzerman arrived in a disaster situation. Calling them the Dead Things was too kind.
Regardless, Yzerman's ascension to NHL elite status was much quicker than Sakic's with far less to work with.

IMO, Yzerman's 1987 season trumps anything Sakic did, to include his 1996 playoffs. Yzerman, playing on a vastly inexperienced team, lead the Wings to the CF, where they ultimately lost to the Oilers. However, Yzerman was a machine that postseason at just 21 years old. To this day, it was the best overall postseason performance by a young player that I ever saw.

Conversely, 1993 was Quebec's coming out party, and while Sakic was dominant that season, anybody with a pulse knows that the Lindros trade made the Nords a playoff team, not Sakic. The arrival of a legit No. 1 goalie (Hextall) and a PP QB (Duchense), coupled with the maturation of Nolan and Sundin, made that team a 100-point team.

Less than a year later, they were back in the crapper. Sakic could not lead his team out of the 1st round until he was 26 and was given Roy and Forsberg. That to me is a severe indictment

To me it's really not an issue. Stats are subjective for both because of the age gap and injuries. While Sakic should be rewarded for being durable, Yzerman should be just as lauded for being able to overcome horrific injuires and play at a high level.

I'll take Stevie Y and the physical and mental (Detroit's SC drought) pressure he had to play with night in and night out than Sakic and his low-key demeanor 10 times out of 10.

Just my opinion.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Sakic might have the better numbers, but Yzerman has the hearts of everyone.

Can you clarify on this point?

I don't disagree with what is stated here, but I do disagree with what is implied - Sakic certainly "has the hearts of everyone" just as much as Yzerman does. Both are among the best-liked players, universally, in this era.

 

[Padan]

IMO, Yzerman's 1987 season trumps anything Sakic did, to include his 1996 playoffs. Yzerman, playing on a vastly inexperienced team, lead the Wings to the CF, where they ultimately lost to the Oilers. However, Yzerman was a machine that postseason at just 21 years old. To this day, it was the best overall postseason performance by a young player that I ever saw.

I don't agree with this. In 1996 playoffs, Sakic finished 12 friggin' points ahead of the next scorer on the team (Kamensky), scored as many game-winners per game as Yzerman had total goals in the 87' playoffs, while playing sound defensive hockey. Remember that Yzerman was being critized for his defensive shortcomings back then, and Glen Hanlon stood on his head in those playoffs, leading the league in both goals against average and save percentage.

Not to mention the 2001 playoffs, where Sakic stepped up his game when Forsberg got injured, putting up 16 points in the last two series, despite drawing the attention of Chris Pronger and later Scott Stevens.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

I don't agree with this. In 1996 playoffs, Sakic finished 12 friggin' points ahead of the next scorer on the team (Kamensky), scored as many game-winners per game as Yzerman had total goals in the 87' playoffs, while playing sound defensive hockey. Remember that Yzerman was being critized for his defensive shortcomings back then, and Glen Hanlon stood on his head in those playoffs, leading the league in both goals against average and save percentage.

Not to mention the 2001 playoffs, where Sakic stepped up his game when Forsberg got injured, putting up 16 points in the last two series, despite drawing the attention of Chris Pronger and later Scott Stevens.

It's my opinion. You can say all you want about Hanlon, but I specifically remember a 21-year-old Yzerman making big play after big play in that postseason with a support group that borderlined on the absurd.

Plus, I don't get the idea of Sakic "drawing attention". Did you watch the 1987 playoffs? It's not like opponents were checking and matching lines to quell guys like Dave Barr and Brent Ashton. Yzerman was harrassed all postseason and had nothing on his side compared to the firepower Colorado had in 1996.

Yzerman was 21 and he led his team to the CF on a garbage team (albeit against garbage opponenets) who rode a hot goalie. Sakic didn't get out of the first round until 1996. To me that is an indictment, tp include the fact that his 1st two postseason experiences (1993, 1995), his point production was well below his regular season production, and it ultimately contributed to early round upsets

Look, I think Sakic is a great great player who was an exceptional postseason performer. However, IMO, he never carried his franchise the way Yzerman did his and doing it with a ton of obstacles stacked against him.

 

[Tim Calhoun]

Extremely close, but I would say Sakic... he was better in the later stages of his career.

 

[Bill McCreary]

Can you clarify on this point?

I don't disagree with what is stated here, but I do disagree with what is implied - Sakic certainly "has the hearts of everyone" just as much as Yzerman does. Both are among the best-liked players, universally, in this era.

Everyone hates that monster Joe Sakic.

 

[sidewayzLEAFS]

true, after long career's sakic last 2-3 seasons seem better than yzerman's last 2-3 seasons.. and their primes are almost identical