Friedman: Sabres shopping D? (Not Risto)

[Panthaz89]

Some people are just beyond help when it comes to Risto....if he wasn't that good then why the f*** would he be playing top minutes over the guys they mention are better by so many coaches. "Miller is better and he was traded for 2th and 5th" in what damn world do you live in? Does every coach for the Sabres want to lose by playing him on the top pair nearly every game the past several seasons? Even RK who has benched Dahlin at times has hardly touched Risto minutes if any.

 

[duckpuck]

One of the players you just mentioned couldn't return a 1st round pick was just traded for a 1st round pick +. So take out the prospect if his value has taken a hit based on your speculation that he'll be tough to sign (which I really see no indication of, if anything I'd tend to put that more on Murray and the ducks who have a history of strong arming RFA's in negotiations). There was a fair amount of movement in the offseason where good players (like Miller and others listed) were sold at a discount to clear cap space in the offseason, Buffalo has no urgency to free up cap space at the moment and young RHD are traditionally some of the more valuable commodities in the league. I find it hard to believe teams will trade 1st round picks for rentals but not for good young players with several years of team control. I'm sure GM's are offering 1st round picks for good young players with term, those players aren't being moved in great frequency because most teams and GM's would rather keep a good young player in their prime than move them for a mid to late 1st coin flip.

Teams trade first round picks for rentals only when they are Duchene or or Kevin Hayes caliber. Risto and Montour are not that.

Your argument about discounts in the off season makes no sense. More teams have cap space in the off season - that is when the seller's market is most robust to move contracts like Risto's. The number of teams who can absorb a $5M cap hit (without sending back salary) during the season is much smaller - and often those teams are not looking to improve at the deadline (because they are not cup contenders).

You're failing to acknowledge that: (i) Buffalo probably overpaid for Montour (certainly in relation to the cost of Miller who seems to be the better player); and (ii) Montour's value is less now than it was a year ago. When Buffalo traded for him, they had 1.5 years of control (and potentially two playoff runs). Not anymore. He's still basically the same player - no major leap in development.

Look at the NHL cap situation - how many teams can absorb a $5M contract and how many of those would be willing to do so (i.e., need an offensive RHD who is not expansion exempt)? All of those are bad teams and I doubt they'll be giving up their own first round pick. Maybe a team with multiple picks (like Buffalo last year) steps up.

I recognize Buffalo doesn't have cap issues yet. So there is no reason to fire sale. Your best hope is that a contending team has a long term injury and is willing to pay.

 

[elchud]

Some people are just beyond help when it comes to Risto....if he wasn't that good then why the **** would he be playing top minutes over the guys they mention are better by so many coaches. "Miller is better and he was traded for 2th and 5th" in what damn world do you live in? Does every coach for the Sabres want to lose by playing him on the top pair nearly every game the past several seasons? Even RK who has benched Dahlin at times has hardly touched Risto minutes if any.

Any team in the league with the cap space to take Risto, would take Risto. Period, end of, slam dunk.

Not a single one us us knows what he is worth in a trade, besides, duh, he is worth what an NHL GM will give for him. Besides top 6 center, top 4 RHD is the prime commodity if it appears on the market. Sabres are in the catbird seat, and can remain in the catbird seat until the trade deadline. Teams with significant D, or team D, deficiencies can hope that they can improve with what they have. When the mid-point of the year trade dealine rolls around and some teams are borderline playoffs, they can pay more at that point than they would now, that's fine. Because whatever you think about Risto, his price will be greater a few months from now that it is now.

As a Sabres fan who has been down on Risto for the past two years, I'm fine with him now. He is overpaid. He plays a valuable role on the team. I'd rather trade Montour, who all-in-all is a better Dman but can get (I think) a greater return, and, there is redundancy in his skillset with the current Sabres D.

Amd here's a true statement...It's early, but Jack Adams favorite Krueger is giving Risto the most minutes on the team, and so far so good. I don't think it's a Botts/Krueger conspiracy to boost a player's worth, Krueger just cares about winning and having a team grow and improve every single day.

 

[elchud]

Any team in the league with the cap space to take Risto, would take Risto. Period, end of, slam dunk.

Not a single one us us knows what he is worth in a trade, besides, duh, he is worth what an NHL GM will give for him. Besides top 6 center, top 4 RHD is the prime commodity if it appears on the market. Sabres are in the catbird seat, and can remain in the catbird seat until the trade deadline. Teams with significant D, or team D, deficiencies can hope that they can improve with what they have. When the mid-point of the year trade dealine rolls around and some teams are borderline playoffs, they can pay more at that point than they would now, that's fine. Because whatever you think about Risto, his price will be greater a few months from now that it is now.

As a Sabres fan who has been down on Risto for the past two years, I'm fine with him now. He is overpaid. He plays a valuable role on the team. I'd rather trade Montour, who all-in-all is a better Dman but can get (I think) a greater return, and, there is redundancy in his skillset with the current Sabres D.

Amd here's a true statement...It's early, but Jack Adams favorite Krueger is giving Risto the most minutes on the team, and so far so good. I don't think it's a Botts/Krueger conspiracy to boost a player's worth, Krueger just cares about winning and having a team grow and improve every single day.

Let's talk Risto, and I've seen basically every game he has ever played. He was a disaster the last two years. Universally scorned for his plus-minus. Bad decision making in his own zone, racks up powerplay points, it's all been well reported. As he is now, with his PP minutes and points way down, he is still a 24minute 25-30 point defenceman. With his skillset and experience, it isn't surprising at all that some corrective measures are in play and his pendulum is swinging positive. I'm not saying anybody should change their impressions on his overall worth as a top4 d-man, just that he is trending upwards. 24 minutes a game, and tremendous improvement in 5 on 5 play with his undeniable PP skillset and physical chops, it's amusing that he seems to be getting *more* contempt now that one month ago. Keep an open mind is all I'm saying, temper the disdain for the kid, and don't be surprised if a team pays a heavy price for him Jan-Mar of next year.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

If anyone saw the type of D-zone coverage the D-corps was forced to play under Housley the last two years, and I mean live in person to be able to see the entirety of the disaster of man coverage in today's game, they would realize why the guy relied on with the most TOI had bad stats. That's not to say Ristolainen is a good defensive player, just that under a competent defensive system and the team playing a better overall brand of hockey, that Ristolainen is absolutely NOT the unmitigated disaster that many posters have been fooled into believing.

He is a good top-four RHD, worth every penny on a 2nd pairing with PP time, and has the trade value equivalent to a 1st + prospect or 60 pt FW on similar contract straight up.

 

[is the answer jesus]

Teams trade first round picks for rentals only when they are Duchene or or Kevin Hayes caliber. Risto and Montour are not that.

Your argument about discounts in the off season makes no sense. More teams have cap space in the off season - that is when the seller's market is most robust to move contracts like Risto's. The number of teams who can absorb a $5M cap hit (without sending back salary) during the season is much smaller - and often those teams are not looking to improve at the deadline (because they are not cup contenders).

You're failing to acknowledge that: (i) Buffalo probably overpaid for Montour (certainly in relation to the cost of Miller who seems to be the better player); and (ii) Montour's value is less now than it was a year ago. When Buffalo traded for him, they had 1.5 years of control (and potentially two playoff runs). Not anymore. He's still basically the same player - no major leap in development.

Look at the NHL cap situation - how many teams can absorb a $5M contract and how many of those would be willing to do so (i.e., need an offensive RHD who is not expansion exempt)? All of those are bad teams and I doubt they'll be giving up their own first round pick. Maybe a team with multiple picks (like Buffalo last year) steps up.

I recognize Buffalo doesn't have cap issues yet. So there is no reason to fire sale. Your best hope is that a contending team has a long term injury and is willing to pay.

Teams trade first round picks for rentals only when they are Duchene or or Kevin Hayes caliber. Risto and Montour are not that.

Your argument about discounts in the off season makes no sense. More teams have cap space in the off season - that is when the seller's market is most robust to move contracts like Risto's. The number of teams who can absorb a $5M cap hit (without sending back salary) during the season is much smaller - and often those teams are not looking to improve at the deadline (because they are not cup contenders).

You're failing to acknowledge that: (i) Buffalo probably overpaid for Montour (certainly in relation to the cost of Miller who seems to be the better player); and (ii) Montour's value is less now than it was a year ago. When Buffalo traded for him, they had 1.5 years of control (and potentially two playoff runs). Not anymore. He's still basically the same player - no major leap in development.

Look at the NHL cap situation - how many teams can absorb a $5M contract and how many of those would be willing to do so (i.e., need an offensive RHD who is not expansion exempt)? All of those are bad teams and I doubt they'll be giving up their own first round pick. Maybe a team with multiple picks (like Buffalo last year) steps up.

I recognize Buffalo doesn't have cap issues yet. So there is no reason to fire sale. Your best hope is that a contending team has a long term injury and is willing to pay.

My comments about roster building in the offseason are on point. Particularly in reference to last offseason. The salary cap was expected to rise higher than it actually did and it caused a squeeze on several teams to make moves to become cap compliant. Miller and Haula were sold at a discount. Prices traditionally drop in the offseason and are at their peak approaching the deadline. It's common knowledge. You also act as though Buffalo is unwilling or unable to take salary back in a Ristolainen or Montour trade which isn't the case. They could easily absorb a sizable contract in return. I'm not arguing that Montour or Ristolainen are better players than Hayes or Duchene, but they are good young players with several years of team control. If teams are willing to piss away first round picks for 20 games of a 2nd line center like Hayes, you really think they'd scoff at a 1st for a young defenseman with years of term/team control?

 

[CartographerNo611]

Mccabe is a Bob Murray defenseman.

 

[Djp]

Mccabe is a Bob Murray defenseman.

Richard Rackell is a Ralph "Freddie" Kruger type of forward

 

[Djp]

Teams trade first round picks for rentals only when they are Duchene or or Kevin Hayes caliber. Risto and Montour are not that.

History says otherwise.....this is just trade deadline deals...not off season moves.

NHL trade deadline: History of first-round draft picks dealt for players

You're failing to acknowledge that: (i) Buffalo probably overpaid for Montour (certainly in relation to the cost of Miller who seems to be the better player); and (ii) Montour's value is less now than it was a year ago. When Buffalo traded for him, they had 1.5 years of control (and potentially two playoff runs). Not anymore. He's still basically the same player - no major leap in development.

Montour is an RFA after this year and a UFA in 2021. He had a full 2 seasons in the NHL If Buffalo was to trade Montour in season it would lkly be for an NHL forword, not prospects or picls.

Miller is not a top pair Dman. He is a middle pair one. Usually the going rate is a 2nd+ another pick or a contract.

Look at the NHL cap situation - how many teams can absorb a $5M contract and how many of those would be willing to do so (i.e., need an offensive RHD who is not expansion exempt)? All of those are bad teams and I doubt they'll be giving up their own first round pick. Maybe a team with multiple picks (like Buffalo last year) steps up.

I recognize Buffalo doesn't have cap issues yet. So there is no reason to fire sale. Your best hope is that a contending team has a long term injury and is willing to pay.

Salary cap is tighter in the season so its harder for a team to trade a $5M player for picks/prosepcts/ It limits the market. Near the deadline its about 22% of theseason remaining so a team could trade him to many teams with retention making him free for that tear to the enw club and lower cap then on.

Its more likely a trade of a player for players on contracts where the deal is close to neutral.

trading a player like Risto at $5M to a lower level team with cap space alos means its far less likely they get a first, but instead a far better player from that teams roster.

If Buddalo had the intent on moving Risto he could have gotten picks and prospects in a deal at the draft. He didnt because he wanted to improve the Sabres now.

 

[deVolt]

Nylander and Petan for Dahlin

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

How much have you had to drink tonight?

Scandella, Vesey and Okposo for Matthews

 

[Not Sure]

Scandella, Vesey and Okposo for Matthews

That's just ridiculous, they need to take Bogosian if we are taking that much salary with 6 more years.

 

[Sabrebuff2020]

Dahlin for Heiskanen straight up. Who says no?!

Lol yeah ok Sabres say big NO

 

[Dubi Doo]

Lol yeah ok Sabres say big NO

Sarcasm on my part since Heiskanen vs Dahlin has been a thing.

 

[bernmeister]

too biz to catch up on7 pgs...

Are any prospects available or just vets?

 

[Djp]

too biz to catch up on7 pgs...

Are any prospects available or just vets?

here are cliff notes

Buffalo is not trading expansion draft exempt prospects or other ELC prospects/young NHLers

Buffalo has on their roster too many NHL ready dmen

dont even try: Dahlin, , Miller, Jokihaurju, Borgen (AHL), Pilut, other prospect d not mentioned

currently on sabres: McCabe, Ristolainen Dahlin, ,Miller, Jokihaurju
UFA this summer: Scandella, Bogosian(IR) , Gilmour, Nelson (AHL)
RFA this summer: montour (currently on IR). Pilut (AHL)
AHL Borgen is NHL ready

likely to get traded first---Scandellla , Bogosian and possibly Nelson

Montour is looking to be healthy in a few weeks and need ice time. the logical thing is to trade Scandella when Mountiur is ready to play

 

[Frozen Failure]

Scandella for CGY's 4th (owned by LAK) and a body?

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

Scandella for CGY's 4th (owned by LAK) and a body?

Scandella for Sam Bennet?

 

[bernmeister]

here are cliff notes

Buffalo is not trading expansion draft exempt prospects or other ELC prospects/young NHLers

Buffalo has on their roster too many NHL ready dmen

dont even try: Dahlin, , Miller, Jokihaurju, Borgen (AHL), Pilut, other prospect d not mentioned

currently on sabres: McCabe, Ristolainen Dahlin, ,Miller, Jokihaurju
UFA this summer: Scandella, Bogosian(IR) , Gilmour, Nelson (AHL)
RFA this summer: montour (currently on IR). Pilut (AHL)
AHL Borgen is NHL ready

likely to get traded first---Scandellla , Bogosian and possibly Nelson

Montour is looking to be healthy in a few weeks and need ice time. the logical thing is to trade Scandella when Mountiur is ready to play

Thanks
had hoped Samuelsson or one or two others might be available.
Apparently not.
Appreciate the courtesy of detailed feedback.

 

[tsujimoto74]

Scandella for CGY's 4th (owned by LAK) and a body?

If Justin Braun was worth a 2nd to somebody, I think Scandella should be, too.

 

[Chainshot]

Scandella for Sam Bennet?

Flames fans giggle at this.

 

[Frozen Failure]

I giggle because it was a BUF-LAK trade, not a Calgary trade.

 

[YP44]

Scandella for CGY's 4th (owned by LAK) and a body?

I don't want LA to trade for a UFA to be.

 

[Frozen Failure]

I don't want LA to trade for a UFA to be.

Would you prefer Scandella or Ryan on the bottom pair?

 

[YP44]

Would you prefer Scandella or Ryan on the bottom pair?

pretty easy answer but I would rather hold the 4th rounder.