Sabres Head Coach Search 2

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Chainshot

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You raise a good point. I hadn't considered us potentially starting to win after a coaching change lol

Say take firing Phil at game 40, after a third straight loss and 5th in 6 games, the Sabres are 21-13-6 (48 points) and their season is on the brink...

Let's just compare the teams that changed coaches in season winning percentage to the Sabres final 42 games where they went 12-26-4 (.333 winning percentage):

Crawford, Ottawa, .417... Sabres at that pace finish with 83 points
Desjardin, LA, .449... Sabres finish at that pace with 86 points
Hitchcock, Edmonton, .484... Sabres 89 points
Gordon, Philadelphia, .529... Sabres 92 points
Murray, Anaheim, .558 (AS A FIRST TIME EVER NHL COACH AND HANDLING GM DUTIES)... Sabres 95 points
Berube, St. Louis, .651... 103 points

Every single one of them had a better winning percentage than Phil and the Sabres over that span, the joke that was Murray behind the bench, Desjardin's terribleness in LA, even Crow with a ghost of a roster in Ottawa. Ever. Single. One.
 

GellMann

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Guys, we didn't even get a name of the reporter claiming it's Martin.

It's also been reported that the only thing we interviewed Martin for was an assistant coaching position.

I'm pretty sure it's also been reported that we haven't interviewed Martin at all. If not, it may as well have been.

We're not hiring Martin and nobody f***ing knows what we're doing. If there's one good thing about Botterill's tenure, it's that everyone is wrong all the time because there are no leaks, and when things DO happen (Montour, Sheary, Scandella) it comes right out of left field without a whisper beforehand, unless other teams let stuff slip (ROR/Skinner discussions). But this isn't a trade scenario.
 
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Doug Prishpreed

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Choosing Martin out of the average list of coaches currently available would be like having the chance to pick from the St. Louis Blues' 5 worst roster players and choosing Vladimir Sobotka. No competent organization would ever do such a thing.

Tried to add a Noob Noob gif here but couldn’t figure out how. But as noob noob would say, “god damn!”
 

OkimLom

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It's also why I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that Keefe would come here. If you've been the hottest coaching prospect in Hockey for the last 2-3 years why would you risk Dallas Eakins-ing yourself by going to a franchise that has finished dead last 3 out of the last 6 seasons? Especially when the GM will likely be fired if he produces similar results in 2020? Toronto will just pay him like an NHL coach next season and he will either be coaching the Maple Leafs in 2021 or get hired by a more stable franchise.

Especially with how quickly coaches can be fired in this league. There may just be a better situation that he can find next year when a coach gets fired for underperforming next year. For example, if Tampa fails again next year.

There's nothing about the Buffalo Sabres that makes it an attractive destination over other locations. As great as having the potential of coaching talented players like Eichel, Reinhart, Dahlin, and others, having that blackcloud of the impatient ownership, the structure of communication within the organization, and what appears to be a management team that intentionally will dissect the talent level on a whim, greatly handcuffing coaching options, hurts the organization to being a destination. Then there's the need to overhaul what appears the veteran leadership core, the need to teach the players how to win from scratch(shouldn't have to do that with your #1 center being 5 years in the league), and fear of not being capable of doing all that in 2 years, your job is at risk.
 

kirby11

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I want Botts to go have lunch with Jarmo Kekalainen and see if some guts rub off on him.

Speaking of CBJ, I loved how Torts responded to a reporter asking how he felt overseeing the franchise's most successful playoff run after game 6 vs. Boston. He said he and the guys in the room were obviously happy to win round 1. They didn't want to call their playoff run a success, though, because they were aiming for the Cup, and they expected to still be playing.

Meanwhile, the Pegulas and Botts would probably throw a parade if the Sabres got to 90 pts. and didn't even make the playoffs. I miss having high standards, or really any standards at all.
 

joshjull

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Say take firing Phil at game 40, after a third straight loss and 5th in 6 games, the Sabres are 21-13-6 (48 points) and their season is on the brink...

Let's just compare the teams that changed coaches in season winning percentage to the Sabres final 42 games where they went 12-26-4 (.333 winning percentage):

Crawford, Ottawa, .417... Sabres at that pace finish with 83 points
Desjardin, LA, .449... Sabres finish at that pace with 86 points
Hitchcock, Edmonton, .484... Sabres 89 points
Gordon, Philadelphia, .529... Sabres 92 points
Murray, Anaheim, .558 (AS A FIRST TIME EVER NHL COACH AND HANDLING GM DUTIES)... Sabres 95 points
Berube, St. Louis, .651... 103 points

Every single one of them had a better winning percentage than Phil and the Sabres over that span, the joke that was Murray behind the bench, Desjardin's terribleness in LA, even Crow with a ghost of a roster in Ottawa. Ever. Single. One.

I get what you're saying but realistically what team is firing a coach with a 21-13-8 record (.600 winning %) ? Particularly after years of losing records.
 
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Chainshot

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I get what you're saying but realistically what team is firing a coach with a 21-13-8 record (.600 winning %) ? Particularly after years of losing records.

How about teams losing 5 out of 6 or 4-7-4 over nearly 6 weeks of play? (Going from the end of the win streak.) I took the end of the bad string in December as a demarcation point. But it could have gone back further, because they were playing poorly for weeks prior to that.
 

Husko

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If indeed previous NHL head coaching experience is some bright line litmus test, Todd Nelson is far and away my top choice. He’s exactly the kind of retread I could see finding success in a new situation and the way he talks about analytics makes me wet.

Second choice would be Tippett, I guess.
 
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Chainshot

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Speaking of CBJ, I loved how Torts responded to a reporter asking how he felt overseeing the franchise's most successful playoff run after game 6 vs. Boston. He said he and the guys in the room were obviously happy to win round 1. They didn't want to call their playoff run a success, though, because they were aiming for the Cup, and they expected to still be playing.

Meanwhile, the Pegulas and Botts would probably throw a parade if the Sabres got to 90 pts. and didn't even make the playoffs. I miss having high standards, or really any standards at all.

I'm still awaiting Wayne Presley jersey ceremonies.
 

Myllz

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Speaking of CBJ, I loved how Torts responded to a reporter asking how he felt overseeing the franchise's most successful playoff run after game 6 vs. Boston. He said he and the guys in the room were obviously happy to win round 1. They didn't want to call their playoff run a success, though, because they were aiming for the Cup, and they expected to still be playing.

Meanwhile, the Pegulas and Botts would probably throw a parade if the Sabres got to 90 pts. and didn't even make the playoffs. I miss having high standards, or really any standards at all.

Torts was almost insulted he was being asked if their playoff run was a success.
 

joshjull

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How about teams losing 5 out of 6 or 4-7-4 over nearly 6 weeks of play? (Going from the end of the win streak.) I took the end of the bad string in December as a demarcation point. But it could have gone back further, because they were playing poorly for weeks prior to that.

Again I get that but I don't see any NHL GM firing a coach with a winning record like that. In retrospect the 10 game wining streak doomed our season.

EDIT: I should say it doomed any chance of Phil getting fired when it could have made a difference for the season .
 
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Chainshot

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Speaking of CBJ, I loved how Torts responded to a reporter asking how he felt overseeing the franchise's most successful playoff run after game 6 vs. Boston. He said he and the guys in the room were obviously happy to win round 1. They didn't want to call their playoff run a success, though, because they were aiming for the Cup, and they expected to still be playing.

Meanwhile, the Pegulas and Botts would probably throw a parade if the Sabres got to 90 pts. and didn't even make the playoffs. I miss having high standards, or really any standards at all.

We have the GM talking about how they didn't think they would be good this year after that 10-game winning streak, instead of challenging his group to step the hell up now that they've taken a step forward (even a luck step). Low standards is right.
 

Doug Prishpreed

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We have the GM talking about how they didn't think they would be good this year after that 10-game winning streak, instead of challenging his group to step the hell up now that they've taken a step forward (even a luck step). Low standards is right.

It reminded me of Murray siting Baptiste’s development as one of the reasons he thought the team made progress that season. Failing GMs have to point to something when they’re doing a poor job.
 

slip

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It reminded me of Murray siting Baptiste’s development as one of the reasons he thought the team made progress that season. Failing GMs have to point to something when they’re doing a poor job.
Botts loves to point to the "first half" of the season as evidence of progress, but in reality over the past two years the Sabres had the best record in hockey for a 6% stretch under Botterill's tenure, and the absolute worst for the other 94%. Sadly ownership is dumb enough to buy into the progress narrative.
 

Montag DP

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Botts loves to point to the "first half" of the season as evidence of progress, but in reality over the past two years the Sabres had the best record in hockey for a 6% stretch under Botterill's tenure, and the absolute worst for the other 94%. Sadly ownership is dumb enough to buy into the progress narrative.
On the other hand, it did show what the roster is capable of when they are playing with confidence. And I don't mean that they can be best in the league by any stretch, because there was also a lot of luck involved in that streak, but they should not be a bottom-5 team either.
 
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OkimLom

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It reminded me of Murray siting Baptiste’s development as one of the reasons he thought the team made progress that season. Failing GMs have to point to something when they’re doing a poor job.

Do you have that source? Because I couldn't find anywhere this was said. The only thing I found was Murray was citing a collection of Rochester guys (Baptiste included) and the strides they made in their development.
 

Mattilaus

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Say take firing Phil at game 40, after a third straight loss and 5th in 6 games, the Sabres are 21-13-6 (48 points) and their season is on the brink...

Let's just compare the teams that changed coaches in season winning percentage to the Sabres final 42 games where they went 12-26-4 (.333 winning percentage):

Crawford, Ottawa, .417... Sabres at that pace finish with 83 points
Desjardin, LA, .449... Sabres finish at that pace with 86 points
Hitchcock, Edmonton, .484... Sabres 89 points
Gordon, Philadelphia, .529... Sabres 92 points
Murray, Anaheim, .558 (AS A FIRST TIME EVER NHL COACH AND HANDLING GM DUTIES)... Sabres 95 points
Berube, St. Louis, .651... 103 points

Every single one of them had a better winning percentage than Phil and the Sabres over that span, the joke that was Murray behind the bench, Desjardin's terribleness in LA, even Crow with a ghost of a roster in Ottawa. Ever. Single. One.

Okay but my question then is how many of those teams fired their coach when their team had a record similar to 21-13-6? It's easy to say the coach should be fired after a 5 out of 6 losing streak but difficult to justify firing a coach whose team is currently .600 on the season. I know the 10 game win streak was largely luck based but I think it would be hard to find a team with that good of a record who fired their coach aside from late 90's early 00's New Jersey when Lou was firing his coach every season.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see you addressed this earlier. I still think it is hard to fire a coach whose team is .600
 

Buffaloed

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Okay but my question then is how many of those teams fired their coach when their team had a record similar to 21-13-6? It's easy to say the coach should be fired after a 5 out of 6 losing streak but difficult to justify firing a coach whose team is currently .600 on the season. I know the 10 game win streak was largely luck based but I think it would be hard to find a team with that good of a record who fired their coach aside from late 90's early 00's New Jersey when Lou was firing his coach every season.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see you addressed this earlier. I still think it is hard to fire a coach whose team is .600
We should start next season with an interim coach so we can pounce on Trotz when Lou fires him.
 

joshjull

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I’m to the point where I’m not going to care much about the coaching hire until the season. I want to see what the do systemically, what adjustments they make in season and in game as well as how players are used within all that.

After the last two hires I’m leery of anything good said about about a coaching hire when it happens. Even if they say all the right things I’m going to resist being happy about it. :laugh:
 
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